Vintage/old Amps

[admin_exported]

Hi all.

Im using Arcam Alpha 8R and 8P amps to biamp ATC SCM40s at the moment. Ive asked advice before about upgrading amps but as im now unemployed, an upgrade around the £1500 I was planning is out the question.

Ive seen alot of talk about older amps on the forum recently.Is there anything I could pick up for no more than say, £200 that could drive the ATCs better than my Arcams? Im having to turn them up to about 11 to get a reasonable volume. Any more and they start to struggle. The treble really grates above this.

Any opinions will be greatly recieved!

 

[plastic penguin]

Well, as I've probably mentioned before, you can't go wrong with old Pioneer or JVC amps. There are afew on here who recommend A-400, but that has only 40 watts per channel. To drive ATC's you need at least 70 per channel.

Ebay always has a good selection of the brands I've mentioned.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your reply. Do you think the amps you mention would be much of an improvement over what I have at the moment?

 

[gpi]

This isn't the first time I've read of harsh, grating treble and ATC SCM40 speakers. Are you sure it's the amps fault?

 

[Anonymous]

yeah because its only when the amps are getting pushed really hard that it happens. I know this isnt a definate yes but Im 99.9% sure. Until the volume hits 11 oclock they sound great.

 

[gpi]

Well in that case replacing one budget low-powered and anaemic amp with another of a different brand aint gonna help matters. You need to set your sights higher if you want the ATCs at Spinal Tap levels. )

 

[Anonymous]

I was thinking about replacing it with an older HIGH powered amp!

 

[gpi]

Look at the Sony ES range and older Harmon Kardon amps. There's a German seller Hifi Leipzig who will give you a lot of choice although the Euro is still strong against the Pound so prices will be high. http://www.hifi-leipzig.de/shop/index.php They also have an ebay shop with fewer items.

Verst„rker is amplifier

Vollverst„rker = full amplifier (whatever that means)

Vorverst„rker = preamplifier]

End-Verst„rker = power amplifier.

Handily grouped into brands. I know of several people who have bought gear from them and been delighted with the product and their service.

 

[Anonymous]

plastic penguin:

Well, as I've probably mentioned before, you can't go wrong with old Pioneer or JVC amps. There are afew on here who recommend A-400, but that has only 40 watts per channel. To drive ATC's you need at least 70 per channel.

Ebay always has a good selection of the brands I've mentioned.

the A-400 is rated at 60 watts per channel at 8 ohms but it sounds like an 80w

 

[Anonymous]

a few good old powerful amps in no particular order:

marantz 1200

sansui AU-D11

Pioneer SA-8800 or Sa-9800

sansui Au-9900

Yamaha CA 1010 or CA 2010

Technics SU 8600

Kenwood KA-907

Kenwood KA 9100

sony TA-F7

Marantz PM 7200

these can be had for pretty cheap ... paid £275 for my pioneer SA-9800

 

[matthewpiano]

Firstly I'm not familiar with the ATCs, so I can't comment on how they will match with different amps synergistically.

In terms of powerful older amps I think you would find it quite easy to improve on your Arcams.

Depending on what sort of sound you are after the Naim Nait 3 makes a very strong used buy, although you would have to change to Naim NAC-A5 speaker cable to get the best out of it. Its a very simple amp but it has a very gutsy and dynamic sound that sits at the opposite end of the spectrum to your Arcams.

The Pioneer A400 loves quality speakers (and NEEDS a quality source) and, again, would be better than your current amps. I believe the A605R is well worth looking at as a more powerful and more highly featured alternative with a similar sound.

Be careful with the big old Sansui amps. They are, almost without exception, superb and if you can find a good one the AU-999 is a stunner that will have you selling the Arcams on in no time at all. However, be prepared to get such an amp serviced by somebody competent who can remove the infamous Sansui glue from the circuit boards. They used glue to secure the capacitors to the boards for safe transit but unfortunately over the years it melts and has a corrosive quality. It needs removing to secure long term service. This applies to all the big Sansuis including the superb AU417 and higher models in that same range.

Newer than this, some of the Sony ES and QS range amps are well worth exploring but avoid the 70s models that use V-FETs in the output stage. These are not replacable when they fail, although I believe they sound very special.

Finally, and perhaps my hottest suggestion in your situation, would be to look out for a nice Denon PMA1500 - either the older model or the more recent AE one. Very powerful with effortless dynamic capability and a very controlled sound at all volumes I would think one of these would make a superb partner for your ATCs.

 

[Anonymous]

just a couple of general comments about some of the brands mentioned here

panasonic especially in the nineties went for a warm lush sound that wasnt hyper detailed

the pioneer a400 is a good amp but it is in the slightly lean detailed end of the spectrum

jvc along with many other japanese brands went firmly for the middle of the road nice safe secure but not exciting if thats your thing

nads are terrific amps my only query would be how age has treated them since they tended to use budget componentsamps

marantz are a good bet there expensive models were always terrific and the cheaper ones always good denon too

theres also luxman which can be the pick of the japanese brands but youd need to check the model as the company went through a bad patch in the nineties

persnally id go for 100w minimum since your arcams are distorting at the volumes you like

 

[Anonymous]

my pick of the bunch would be the Pioneer SA-9800 (I own one) ... can be had for pretty cheap (under £300) ...

and in time to come, if the amp starts playing up and needs a service:

full service/ calibrate etc = £60

recap = £32

Set of 4 main power supply capacitors: £177.33 (may not need these)

so, for £269,33 the amp will be as good as new (or £92 if the power supply capacitors are fine)

all work carried out by a technician who was highly recommended and who has refusrbished/serviced loads of these old pioneer amps

have never read a bad review/report and can say that I am very pleased with the 9800

 

[Anonymous]

out of curiossity since its not an amp i know is the sa9800 on the fast lean and detailed side of things as pioneers can be

also a caveat for the op be careful with the rated power figures of some amps manufacturers used to be a bit free with how they rated amps and tended to be quite optimistic with the figure quoted at times

a rival mag used to test power outputs but i think the archive has gone which is a pity

 

[Anonymous]

one off:

out of curiossity since its not an amp i know is the sa9800 on the fast lean and detailed side of things as pioneers can be

also a caveat for the op be careful with the rated power figures of some amps manufacturers used to be a bit free with how they rated amps and tended to be quite optimistic with the figure quoted at times

a rival mag used to test power outputs but i think the archive has gone which is a pity

difficult to describe as it all depends on the other componets connected to the SA-9800 ... can say that on my setup, the sound is crystal clear, very very good soundstage, treble is excellent, bass is superb and loads of power (have never gone higher than the 9 o'clock position on the volume control) ... I would say that it is a very 'detailed' sound

the SA-9800 is rated at 100 watts at 8 ohm

there are loads of controls to adjust the sound/system to your preference, however I have all settings at neutral (the only one I occasionaly use is the loudness function when I listen at low levels

When I connect my pioneer A400 to the same system, it's like chalk and cheese ... don't get me wrong, the A400 is a very good amp, however, the SA-9800 totally outclasses the A400, but that would be expected and it would be unfair to compare the 2

 

[Anonymous]

just got back from the city... had some spare time so popped into Richer sounds for a browse around

had the pleasure of listening to a setup in their listening room ... spent a long time there ... components consisted of:

Cambridge Audio Azur 840C (£699)

Cambridge Audio Azur 840E (£799)

Cambridge Audio Azur 840W power amp (£1199)

Mordaunt Short Mezzo 8 floorstanders (£899)

total price: £3596

very nice .... however .... nowhere near as good as my old setup that cost £700 odd (which includes the rack and all cables)...

so perhaps I am just lucky with my choices, and still maintain that sometimes it is better and wiser to try find good vintage/classic gear for the fraction of what new gear costs ... all it takes is a bit of research on google (and luck)

 

[matthewpiano]

Interesting to hear you thoughts on that dim_span. I've had the 740A/740C combination and Mezzo 2s in the past and, whilst it was very good in some ways, my new Rotel/Pioneer/Mission set-up leaves it standing. I still can't get over how good the A400 is. I can't believe I ever changed my last one.

I completely agree. Vintage/second hand is a great way to get a bargain. I am, however, quickly becoming an advocate of paying a bit more and buying from a dealer who has serviced and checked the items over, with provision of a 3 month warranty. The only thing I bought on Ebay this time was the speakers, but with local pick-up so that I could check them out.

 

[the record spot]

Never mind all the flannel, what's the story with the 751s then?!

 

[Anonymous]

am really glad that things worked out fine for you matthew ... I suppose that I have been lucky so far but have always asked a zillion questions from the sellers before bidding on ebay .... and always googled before making a decsion ....luckily have always managed to get a bargain

even the bedroom system that I bought for £28 sounds ok (old leak sandwich speakers and speaker cable for a tenner,.... Pioneer SX-700L receiver for £15 and Pioneer PD-S703 CDP for £3 from a carboot ... all connected with a silver high breed synergy interconnect that I got for free) ... will eventually connect the leak speakers to an old quad amp/pre-amp

you may want to start looking for your 1st upgrade ....

look out for a good used Pioneer A300R precision amp (those that were modded by Tom Evans) .... some experts say that it far superior than the A400 and the A400GTE (the tom evans modded one) ....

they are scarce but if you see one going for a good price, grab it (will be worth a lot of money in time to come) ... a bit less powerfull than the A400, but apparently 'sonically' is far more superior than the 400

 

[the record spot]

Don't start him off - it's been ten minutes since he declared a state of happiness with the current line up!!!

(Just kidding MP, whoa there!

)

 

[Anonymous]

wait until he discovers the classic luxmans not to mention the kef 104 series of speakers

 

[matthewpiano]

LOL!! Thanks for the A300R, Luxman, and KEF ideas but I'm just going to enjoy this for a good while now. I can't afford to keep throwing money at the hi-fi and, if this continues to sounds as good as it does, I really won't feel the need to. There will be other things competing for my financial attention over the coming months and I am just very pleased to have something that sounds so musical. I'll store the upgrade hints up for the future.

 

[Anonymous]

plastic penguin:
There are afew on here who recommend A-400, but that has only 40 watts per channel. To drive ATC's you need at least 70 per channel.

I have a Pioneer A400 driving a pair of Dynaudio DM 2/7's which are rated at 4 ohms and they have no problem at all. I'd thoroughly recommend the A400 to anyone looking for a good secondhand amp.

 

[Anonymous]

The Pioneer A-400 is not 40 watts ... it's 60 watts at 8 ohms .... many say it performs more like an 80 watt amp

 

[Anonymous]

dim_span:The Pioneer A-400 is not 40 watts ... it's 60 watts at 8 ohms .... many say it performs more like an 80 watt amp

....and 80 watts at 4 ohms.