Valve amp

[Macspur]

Well, I've now heard two of the best Class A amps in the IA-4 and AMS 35i

and neither quite give me what I'm looking for.

The dealer has now suggested I demo a Mastersound compact 845... anyone with experience with this amp, or anyone used any valve amp with Harbeth... a good match or not?

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

I can't help you with the Mastersound, but I strongly suspect that you are a good candidate for Valves....you could also check out Icon Audio, Unison Research and of course Jadis.

Can you describe what you are looking for, and what the above two amps are missing?

 

[Macspur]

I can't help you with the Mastersound, but I strongly suspect that you are a good candidate for Valves....you could also check out Icon Audio, Unison Research and of course Jadis.

Can you describe what you are looking for, and what the above two amps are missing?

I mean it when I say the Sugden and MF aren't far away from the SQ I'm looking for... they just lack that bit of reality, depth and space between instruments.

Perhaps I'm looking for something that's unatainable without spending a fortune!

Just been reading up on the Compact 845... it does seem like a lot of faffing about when setting it up and having to bias it every 6 months. I suppose it would be the same with any valve amp.

I will probably give it whirl in a couple of weeks, just to satisfy my curiosity.

BTW, got some Audio Quest cables coming tomorrow... you never know they might just do the trick.

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm nutty enough to believe that if you're "not far away", the right cable (mains/speaker/interconnect) along with Black Ravioli does just that.....if you haven't already done so, also borrow a good Audioquest mains cable (I've heard them make a good difference).

 

[Macspur]

I'm nutty enough to believe that if you're "not far away", the right cable (mains/speaker/interconnect) along with Black Ravioli does just that.....if you haven't already done so, also borrow a good Audioquest mains cable (I've heard them make a good difference).

I believe you Cno! excuse me if it's a silly question... mains cable for the amp?

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

Not a silly question at all.

I found that a decent cable on the amp was worthwhile, and also a cheaper one on the CDP. I have got the best gains from the amp, and lesser gains on the source (and no gain on my Linn DS).

This is a very much a trial and error thing, as it has different effects, on different kit, in different houses. All I know is that it's worth experimenting with, as the posible rewards can be surprising, and bigger than an i/c change.

If it doesn't work, then there's no harm done. Look to Audioquest NRG4 or 10 for the amp, and maybe an NRG-1 for the CDP. I also rate Cardas, Furutech, Nordost and Clearer Audio.

Black Ravioli under my Linn DS also helped in the areas that you are talking about.

Cno

 

[paradiziac]

Harbeths and valves I imagine would be great if you like falling asleep to your music, though there are people that like the combo.

Based on your comments of what's missing and the ability of the amps you've tried, I doubt the problem is the amp.

I'd also try to experiment with or borrow cabling/equipment supports.

Are you using a mains block or direct to wall sockets?

 

[Rethep]

I think you must decide for yourself if you like "valve-sound" better. Then you could also try (cheaper) valve-amps like Cayin or PrimaLuna which are based on EL34 or KT88 valves.

 

[batonwielder]

So what it is that you are exactly looking for? I would start thinking about changing the speakers if Sugden or MF didn't do it for you.

Try Naim with Harbeth if you are reluctant to do so, starting with the separates.

 

[Macspur]

So what it is that you are exactly looking for? I would start thinking about changing the speakers if Sugden or MF didn't do it for you.

Try Naim with Harbeth if you are reluctant to do so, starting with the separates.

Thanks for the suggestion, but been there done that.

Won't be ditching the Harbeths any time soon, love them.

I may be chasing the unattainable, but I'm looking for that bit more lifelike sound and if valves don't give me that, I could easily live with the Sugden Harbeth combo for a while longer.

Cheers

Mac

 

[acalex]

So what it is that you are exactly looking for? I would start thinking about changing the speakers if Sugden or MF didn't do it for you.

Try Naim with Harbeth if you are reluctant to do so, starting with the separates.

Thanks for the suggestion, but been there done that.

Won't be ditching the Harbeths any time soon, love them.

I may be chasing the unattainable, but I'm looking for that bit more lifelike sound and if valves don't give me that, I could easily live with the Sugden Harbeth combo for a while longer.

Cheers

Mac

Mac, as you know I have a valve amp...not sure what you mean by lifelike sound. The comb I heard AMS35i + Avalon Idea was the most lifelike sound I heard...it just sounded right. Guitar sounded exactly how it should....and separation of instruments was neat

On the other hand, I still preferred the tube sound because a bit more emotional, coloured...but I would say it is less "lifelike" if I understood correctly what you mean by the term. It is an amazing musical and emotional experience. You won't get over the heat problem though as my Jadis D50 Signature heats quite a lot...

The only tube monoblocks I heard were stunning...and had anything I could really complain about...but at what price? Over 25k euro...

 

[tino]

Have you listened to (or can you arrange to listen to) any hybrid integrated amps ... e.g. Unison Research Primo/Secondo or Pathos Logos/Ethos?

 

[shafesk]

Well, I've now heard two of the best Class A amps in the IA-4 and AMS 35i

and neither quite give me what I'm looking for.

The dealer has now suggested I demo a Mastersound compact 845... anyone with experience with this amp, or anyone used any valve amp with Harbeth... a good match or not?

Cheers

Mac

I don't see why a tube amp won't be a good match for your Harbeths. Do try to get something with some grunt as tube amps are relatively low powered as you probably know. I would recommend looking at the Cayin a-55T, but if you are looking to fill a large room these are not the ticket at 45 watts/channel. Although Harbeth suggests that you can get away with 25 watts per channel for this particular speaker, only an audition will tell.

 

[shooter]

Mastersound compact 845...

Thaiman used to have a Mastersound, not sure which one. Maybe start a thread in it and he may pop in 🙂

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I say you should give the Mastersound a try. what do you have to loose? Italians know how to make hi-fi gear sound involving. who knows, maybe you'll enjoy what you'll hear?

on technical side of things; no feedback amp is always striking a the right chord in me. it means the design and components are good enough so there is no need to apply feedback to lower THD. some people think that feedback kills music too, but that you'll have to find for yourself. there's no way you can do a bench test to measure that factor. 845 tubes are also very powerful so you get quite a lot of grunt for a SET amp (in this case some 30W, whereas with a 300B tube you can count on some 12W tops with loads of THD at such a level).

I personally had Mastersound amps on my radar as well, mainly due to no-feadback design. but I must say that for an Italian design they don't shine in aesthetics department IMO. but tastes differ... and there's Pathos which shares similar design philosophy but looks gorgeous, IMO, to boot. if you get a chance try Inpol2.

there's one more thing about no-feedback amps which makes them less suitable to wide range of speakers. they usually have comparatively high output impedance, hence low damping factor. don't get too much worried if you're amp doesn't have 10000000000000 damping factor. a factor of about 50 is as good as any (I can post a lint to article if someone is interested). but there's another concern. high output impedance makes the amp vulnerable to varying impedance of the speaker and through that frequency response of the amp may start fluctuate with frequency. to remedy that you need a speaker with high impedance plot (8 Ohm typical minimum, not falling below 6 Ohm) and if the impedance is flat (so called "purely resistive") it's even better because if speaker's impedance doesn't fluctuate amp's frequency response won't fluctuate either (planar magnetic speakers; hint, hint 🙂). anyway, I think your Harbeths shouldn't cause too much distress to the Mastersound.

 

[BenLaw]

So what it is that you are exactly looking for? I would start thinking about changing the speakers if Sugden or MF didn't do it for you.

Try Naim with Harbeth if you are reluctant to do so, starting with the separates.

Thanks for the suggestion, but been there done that.

Won't be ditching the Harbeths any time soon, love them.

I may be chasing the unattainable, but I'm looking for that bit more lifelike sound and if valves don't give me that, I could easily live with the Sugden Harbeth combo for a while longer.

Cheers

Mac

With what you've said here Mac, I really feel you ought to listen to some active ATC 50s or 100s, even just to rule them out. They are class A up to 2/3 of their output (ie class A for any realistic volume levels), but don't run too hot. They are the most 'lifelike' speakers I have ever heard, and shouldn't overwhelm your room with bass.

Cheers,

Ben

 

[Macspur]

Hmmm, all food for thought. Thanks for all your insightful knowledge.

Ben, you may remember I used to have ATC SCM40's and could not eventually live with them, because of their dry , flat response, are the actives like this?

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

Mac, what other brands of cables do you have access to?

 

[a91gti]

I think someone mentioned earlier a move to an amp using el34 valves.

I must agree and add that you might be best with Svetlana "winged C" el's. I'm currently using a mishmash of '34's but am working to get Svet's as their sound is well regarded for less warmth.

 

[floyd droid]

Harbeths and valves I imagine would be great if you like falling asleep to your music, though there are people that like the combo.

Interesting post opener is that one.

Based purely on your 'imagination' its a bit of sweeper dont you think ?.

 

[floyd droid]

Where are you based Macspur ?.

 

[Macspur]

Where are you based Macspur ?.

Bromley Kent.

 

[batonwielder]

So what it is that you are exactly looking for? I would start thinking about changing the speakers if Sugden or MF didn't do it for you.

Try Naim with Harbeth if you are reluctant to do so, starting with the separates.

Thanks for the suggestion, but been there done that.

Won't be ditching the Harbeths any time soon, love them.

I may be chasing the unattainable, but I'm looking for that bit more lifelike sound and if valves don't give me that, I could easily live with the Sugden Harbeth combo for a while longer.

Cheers

Mac

Mac, as you know I have a valve amp...not sure what you mean by lifelike sound. The comb I heard AMS35i + Avalon Idea was the most lifelike sound I heard...it just sounded right. Guitar sounded exactly how it should....and separation of instruments was neat

On the other hand, I still preferred the tube sound because a bit more emotional, coloured...but I would say it is less "lifelike" if I understood correctly what you mean by the term. It is an amazing musical and emotional experience. You won't get over the heat problem though as my Jadis D50 Signature heats quite a lot...

The only tube monoblocks I heard were stunning...and had anything I could really complain about...but at what price? Over 25k euro...

I think what he's after might be more lively sound like SET + high efficiency speakers, which is what I was personally striving for. I once tried hard to get that sound with my Harbeth speakers, but they couldn't get anywhere near what I wanted.

Do consider some French amplifiers, such as Lavardin and Jadis. They are much more lively sounding than your usual British gears.

 

[Macspur]

Mac, what other brands of cables do you have access to?

Just trying out some Audio Quest SC's forgive me, don't know the models, but one set are biwirable and the others are single and have a plastic box fixed near one end... the former are better, but still not enough difference to justify the expense.

Beginning to wonder is it just my hearing or dare I say it, are the Harbeth's the limiting factor! If it is, I will just have to resign myself to this is as good as it gets for me, as I really do enjoy the balanced SQ they give in my room and besides, I really don't want to be searching for more speakers.

Cheers

Mac

 

[shooter]

How about Leben? Very favorable review online with Harbeth, "freaky, scary, wildly, musically fantastic!" are words used.

You can pick up a CS600 for less than 2k and they pop up quite regular.