Question Using a budget power amp with an audiophile integrated amp?

[AbLondon]

I'd really appreciate some advice. I've read and read but have gone round in circles with my lack of understanding with this one. I have a Cambridge Audio CXA60, around 6 years old (60W RMS into 8 Ohms, 90W RMS into 4 Ohms) and have recently purchased some ex demo Dali Oberon 5 floorstanders (150w max, 6ohm) Previously I had some bookshelves so no issues, but the floorstanders are higher wattage. I don't have the budget to buy another amp so was considering a budget power amp to run the Dali's & using the CA as a pre-amp. Have seen lots but particularly the Tibo PA150 (2 x 150W, 8 ohms) which I can pick up for between £90 & 120. My rationale is the extra power for the speakers and to preserve the integrated amp (is that even a thing?!). I don't really play music at very high volume, the dial is about one-third up at maximum, so loudish but not overly. It's about sound quality for me and I've got hi quality interconnects etc, all generally second hand so it seems odd going for a budget power amp but I don't understand if there's a significant impact on sound quality because the integrated is decent. I've seen some second hand CA power amps between £500 & 2.5k so not an option for me I don't have money for a new integrated amp (the CA CX81 would be perfect...) or 2 separate amps. Will a budget power amp such as the Tibo give any advantage? And in relation to sound quality would it be step up/down or otherwise? Or do I just leave everything as it is!? I do have an active sub by the way and both the CA and Tibo have a sub out if that makes any difference. Apologies for the long post and I'd be very grateful for some advice. Thanks very much

 

[nopiano]

Welcome to the madhouse!

The 150 watt rating on your Oberon 5 is their maximum power handling, not their target input power. 50 watts is plenty for most domestic settings, especially as you say you don’t listen at that high a level.

You aren’t ‘preserving’ anything either as you can’t turn off the power section in your Cambridge - you just bypass it if you use pre-out to connect to another amp.

As long as you can currently connect your sub ok I’d leave well alone and use the cash to buy some music or go to a gig/concert.

 

[gasolin]

The tibo would not at all sound better than a Cambridge audio CXA 60

If the tires on a car can handle 240 kmt (150 miles) you don't need to tune the car so it can go 240kmt ( 150 miles) just because your tires can handle more than the top speed of your car

Don't spend any extra money,, not woth it if you won't buy an amp that sounds much better then the cambridge amp you have, better amp mabye cost you £1000 or a little more used but wast of money if you don't sell the amp and buy something like a cambridge audio evo 150 or mabye a nad c399 even buying that kind of amp will only be an advantage later if you deside to get better speakers

Instead of buying a more power full amp or better sounding amp, i would upgrade the speakers (not class leading sound)

https://www.avforums.com/threads/dali-oberon-5s-sounding-muffled-and-lacking-treble-detail.2351968/

Monitor audio silver 100 or higher tier Dalis

 

[Fandango Andy]

Firstly, the first two answers are spot on. Your amp will be fine the 150w is the max the speakers can handle. A quick search online tells me the manufacture recommends an amp between 30 and 150w. You are well above the minimum.

The impedance is the important thing here. Compared to your 8Ω speakers, the 6Ω Dali's essentially have less resistance so they are drawing more wattage from the amp and therefor putting more strain on it. if you only had a 20w amp this would be a problem, but you are well within the tolerance of the speakers.

Class D amps tend to be higher powered than class AB. Since class D have become more common there seems to be an expectation for higher power amps.

 

[AbLondon]

Welcome to the madhouse!

The 150 watt rating on your Oberon 5 is their maximum power handling, not their target input power. 50 watts is plenty for most domestic settings, especially as you say you don’t listen at that high a level.

You aren’t ‘preserving’ anything either as you can’t turn off the power section in your Cambridge - you just bypass it if you use pre-out to connect to another amp.

As long as you can currently connect your sub ok I’d leave well alone and use the cash to buy some music or go to a gig/concert.

Thanks very much, your advice is much appreciated. So if I understand correctly there's no extra 'risk' of damaging my CA integrated amp running these larger speakers compared to my previous bookshelf speakers? Thanks again

Welcome to the madhouse!

The 150 watt rating on your Oberon 5 is their maximum power handling, not their target input power. 50 watts is plenty for most domestic settings, especially as you say you don’t listen at that high a level.

You aren’t ‘preserving’ anything either as you can’t turn off the power section in your Cambridge - you just bypass it if you use pre-out to connect to another amp.

As long as you can currently connect your sub ok I’d leave well alone and use the cash to buy some music or go to a gig/concert.

 

[AbLondon]

The tibo would not at all sound better than a Cambridge audio CXA 60

If the tires on a car can handle 240 kmt (150 miles) you don't need to tune the car so it can go 240kmt ( 150 miles) just because your tires can handle more than the top speed of your car

Don't spend any extra money,, not woth it if you won't buy an amp that sounds much better then the cambridge amp you have, better amp mabye cost you £1000 or a little more used but wast of money if you don't sell the amp and buy something like a cambridge audio evo 150 or mabye a nad c399 even buying that kind of amp will only be an advantage later if you deside to get better speakers

Instead of buying a more power full amp or better sounding amp, i would upgrade the speakers (not class leading sound)

https://www.avforums.com/threads/dali-oberon-5s-sounding-muffled-and-lacking-treble-detail.2351968/

Monitor audio silver 100 or higher tier Dalis

Thank you. I have recently purchased the Dalis and so will be sticking with them for now. They're the best I can achieve at the current time. With the room size and practicalities I probably can't justify bigger speakers. These are quite compact compared to others in their bracket so was a big reason for choosing them. Thanks again

 

[AbLondon]

Firstly, the first two answers are spot on. Your amp will be fine the 150w is the max the speakers can handle. A quick search online tells me the manufacture recommends an amp between 30 and 150w. You are well above the minimum.

The impedance is the important thing here. Compared to your 8Ω speakers, the 6Ω Dali's essentially have less resistance so they are drawing more wattage from the amp and therefor putting more strain on it. if you only had a 20w amp this would be a problem, but you are well within the tolerance of the speakers.

Class D amps tend to be higher powered than class AB. Since class D have become more common there seems to be an expectation for higher power amps.

Thanks for your advice. My old speakers were 4ohm bookshelf, and these are 6 but good to know they are still not an issue which I had incorrectly assumed. Can I ask, what would be the advantage of using a more powerful amp? I have an old Cambridge Audio Azure which is 75w for example, and Cambridge Audio do a CXA81 which is more powerful. I'm not in a position to get a new one and I'm very happy with my CXA60 but trying to understand the rationale. Thanks very much

 

[nopiano]

Thanks very much, your advice is much appreciated. So if I understand correctly there's no extra 'risk' of damaging my CA integrated amp running these larger speakers compared to my previous bookshelf speakers? Thanks again

Absolutely none, whatsoever. They would be a quite typical pairing bought together originally.

If you were trying to fill a stadium they wouldn’t be a great combination but for a typical living room, say 20 to 30 square metres, no problem at all. They’re lovely speakers - just enjoy them!

 

[Fandango Andy]

Thanks for your advice. My old speakers were 4ohm bookshelf, and these are 6 but good to know they are still not an issue which I had incorrectly assumed. Can I ask, what would be the advantage of using a more powerful amp? I have an old Cambridge Audio Azure which is 75w for example, and Cambridge Audio do a CXA81 which is more powerful. I'm not in a position to get a new one and I'm very happy with my CXA60 but trying to understand the rationale. Thanks very much

I misunderstood you. I thought your old speakers were 8Ω whichis most common. If they were 4Ω they would have been working your amp harder than the new 8Ω.

Either way you are well within the tolerance of the amp.

The lower the impedance the harder the amp is working. Think of it like a train. 8Ω is the equivalent to the engine pulling 10 containers. 6Ω would be 15 containers so it is working harder. 4Ω like 20 containers, so it would be even harder. But, the engine is capable of pulling 20 so it's all fine.

There are two reasons why people get confused. One is they look at power. On a speaker that is usually the max power it can take. The more important number is the manufacturers recommended pairing. An amp with 150w max may recommended 35 to 150w. Anywhere in that range will work.

The other confusion is impedance. If the impudence is low it must be easier to drive? No! The lower the impedance the more power it takes to drive it. Imagine an hourglass that is emptying at a constant rate. Now imagine the top of the hourglass was open and its your job to keep topping up the sand to keep it full. The gap is the impedance of the system. If you lower the impedance, ie make the gap twice the size, the dand will flow quicker and you will have to work twice as hard to keep it full.

Enjoy what you have, and if you are thinking of changing, or upgrading, always audition first. A system will sound different in your room to how it does in the shop, and what sounds good to one person may nit sound good to you.

 

[matthewpianist]

Your Cambridge amp will drive the Dali’s comfortably. Enjoy the music.

 

[landco]

Will a budget power amp such as the Tibo give any advantage?

The stories of audiophiles that an amplifier affects the sound is a myth that dates back to the 1960-70s, when audio technology was just in its infancy and circuitry was imperfect. Today, choosing an amplifier “by sound” makes no sense; all transistor amplifiers in typical home rooms “sound” the same. You need to focus only on the functionality and power you need (if you decide to kill all your neighbors with noise)

 

[gasolin]

The stories of audiophiles that an amplifier affects the sound is a myth that dates back to the 1960-70s, when audio technology was just in its infancy and circuitry was imperfect. Today, choosing an amplifier “by sound” makes no sense; all transistor amplifiers in typical home rooms “sound” the same. You need to focus only on the functionality and power you need (if you decide to kill all your neighbors with noise)

Disagree

 

[brandroid]

The stories of audiophiles that an amplifier affects the sound is a myth that dates back to the 1960-70s, when audio technology was just in its infancy and circuitry was imperfect. Today, choosing an amplifier “by sound” makes no sense; all transistor amplifiers in typical home rooms “sound” the same. You need to focus only on the functionality and power you need (if you decide to kill all your neighbors with noise)

So you're saying these amps:

Fosi Audio 2 Channel Amplifier

Fosi Audio 2 Channel Stereo Audio Amplifier Receiver Mini Hi-Fi Class D Integrated Amp for Home Speakers

fosiaudio.com

Are going to be indistinguishable from say, this amp:

McCormack Audio Corporation of Virginia

I have several Fosi amps as well as the DNA-125, and I can hear a difference. I hope you have the chance to try several amps some day, but at least you're going to save boatloads of money in the meantime!

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

My MF amps sound different to the preceding Arcam ones.