Trying to get the right loudness from my amplifier and speaker setup

[admin_exported]

hi,

This looks like a great place to get some much needed advice plus I have always been a great fan of What-hifi.

I recently purchased an amp. and matching speakers to do some outdoor djing for salsa dancing. My present oufit

consists of the following;

Amplifier: Pylepro PT3300

 link: http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?brand=&cat1=Pro%20Audio&cat2=Power%20Amplifiers&model=PT3300

Speakers: Pylepro 700W DJ Speakers

 link: http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?model=PPHP1559 

 My sources include: Zune MP3 Players, Hercules MK 2 Mixer (coupled to a laptop)

 

The problem seems to be that I cant seem to drive the system to loud levels and when I try, the music seems distorted.

I know that when i try to use the Fender 150 which is only 150W, they comfortably drive to louder levels. It was suggested

that the problem could be at the pre-amp stage ie. my zune player does not feed enough signal strength to the input of the

power amp. I usually connect to the tuner or tape input of the power amp. However, when i feed it through the mixer, i have more

flexible input volume control and i have pushed the signals to maximum possible and the music distorts.

I am not sure where the problem is and tried to get help from the manufacturers who havent replied yet.

My questions are;

 Are the speakers and amp. a good match for the volume of sound that i require to play outdoors to a crowd of 50 people

 Do i need a pre-amp?

 Is there something in the configuration that is wrong and i can do better?

 

I purchased the equipment to play to a reasonable sound level, its not that much more sound that i need, probably another 25% loudness and the system would be great for its current use.

Your help is much appreciated.

 

regards,

Sam

  

 

 

 

[matthewpiano]

I've used a wide range of sound reinforcement kit in my varied work as musician and I have to say the Fender Passport systems are pretty difficult to beat at sensible money. The new kit you have purchased isn't of the same overall quality as the Fender stuff and I would suggest this is why it doesn't appear to be performing as well.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks for your reply,

I agree the fender system is really good and pushes out decent

sound levels. But dont you think that the overall specs. of the gear i have

should also lead to similar loudness, if not more.

ÿregards, Samÿ

 

[matthewpiano]

Yes, I agree with you but it clearly isn't supporting that power very well. Maybe its let down by a poor power transformer or something, but it sounds like its running out of steam and clipping when you push it.

For me, once you need more than the Fender stuff can offer, you need to be looking at powered desks from Soundcraft or Yamaha and speakers in the JBL league to get the right combination of power and quality.

 

[JoelSim]

jumpdates:
thanks for your reply,

I agree the fender system is really good and pushes out decent

sound levels. But dont you think that the overall specs. of the gear i have

should also lead to similar loudness, if not more.

ÿregards, Samÿ

It's not all about specs. It's about quality of components within those specs. My car stereo pushes out 50W but it's pants even at low volumesÿ

 

[Anonymous]

thanks for your replies.

It seems to me that power output and specs. dont lead to much in terms of

db (loudness). If this is the case how else can one determine the peak loudness of a

system from its configuration without of course just hearing the system?

Any other tips would be much appreciated.

regards, Samÿ

 

[matthewpiano]

I think the key here is that live sound reinforcement kit is expensive and you can't do it well on the cheap. Sticking with the big brands is the only safe way. Personally, beyond the Fender Passport systems, I would stick with Soundcraft, Mackie, Yamaha, JBL and Martin Audio. If those prices are a little too rich, Behringer are the only company that really make good quality but more affordable kit. Their amps, desks, and speakers at least use high quality parts to back up their specification claims. Behringer is the minimum quality stuff I would plug my Roland stage piano/keyboard rig into. Otherwise I might as well play a Casio.

 

[Anonymous]

thank you!I have been researching online and even though specs. say otherwise, the quality of components

used in the construcation of amps. is a pretty major thing. I found that i need twice the power from the amp.

for the rated speakers (350W and 8ohms nominal) which is a rated amp. of 700W into 8ohms. I think i need

a new amp. can you suggest an amp. that will match to these speakers i have already...

http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?model=PPHP1559

http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?model=PPHP1559I want to minimize my cost as i do this for a hobby for a pastime and people seem to like my music 🙂

I am thinking maybe around $300 or so.ÿ

regards,

Samÿ

 

[up the music]

I'd agree with all comments above. As you feed your MP3s to mixer via a mixer low input levels to the amp aren't likely to be the problem. You could try a few MP3 files normalised to a higher level if you're not getting enough input to mixer but I doubt it's going to help.

I noticed you saying you pushed mixer levels to maximum and got distortion. That's to be expected if you're red lighting the mixer all the time and pushing it into clipping. Try to keep the mixer just peaking at 0dB (first red light).

The amp does seem cheap. Given it's 3U height it's not likely to be class D yet it seems very light. The tranny can't be too big, and at that price other components will be compromised.

Similarly the speakers don't seem too heavy.

Getting decent bass outdoors is expensive, probably prohibitively so.

How do the speakers sound when driven within their limits? Some of the really cheap speakers sound ropey when fed just a few watts.

Behringer amps seem well liked for their price, Crown or something mid priced would work better.

I have a pair of Mackie SRM450's and they'd work fine for this sort of thing but could do with subs too. I understand the newer SRM450 V2 aren't as good though. They're common enough that you might be able to borrow a pair to try. They're biamped active jobbies, so could save a little space too.

We used to do salsa classes and nights at the last club I worked, the back room could take around 50 people given space to dance. That worked fine with a 300WPC Yamaha amp and RCF speakers. Do you go for Tequila fueled crazy volumes or something more modest?

In the meantime try to get the speakers on stands to get them above head height. Bodies absorb sound. Try to use any wall/corner reinforcement you can.

 

[Anonymous]

hi,
thanks a bunch for the info!

I did some further research online and have narrowed the amps. to the two...

Behringer E2500 and Gemini XGA-5000

The are in my budget, but unfortunately the Gemini is back-stocked as its fairly new so i am leaning more on the

Behringer as it supports 500W into 8 ohms. I read some reviews of this amp and they all have good things to say

including lots of juice as well as good safety features.

I think the amp i currently have (pylepro) is a bit feeble in supplying good current and the speakers are average but

i think they need to be driven with lots of current. At the top end, they sound harsh but the two matched together

doesnt sound too bad at normal levels, say in a living room. Although they cant match the yamaha audio-video amp

coupled to some floor standing jbl speakers that i use for movie viewing. They sound deep and focused whereas the pylepro/amp combinations sound musical but doesnt have the depth or broad sound stage reproduction of yamaha setup.

I guess at the end of the day, you get what you pay for and when i play salsa music the quality of source music can also

make a big difference to the actual sound.

We are rotating djs that play at the beach on Sundays in Santa Cruz, you can check out the site salsacruz.com which features some happy dancers enjoying the music to the sun!

 

[Anonymous]

Well i finally plucked for the Bernigher EP2500 and did a live outdoor performance today.

Here is what i found:

1. The sound is definately louder than my previous amp. and you can tell its really driving the speakers.

2. I found that my mixer feeds more signal into the pamp much more so than my zune players

3. I can take the knobs all the way to the right and the clipping led lights DO NOT appear suggesting that i can feed much higher input signal and get more loudness if i wish.

4. There are some harshness in trebles at loud settings but i think this is attributed to the speakers rather than the amp. Also the bass is lacking somewhat.

My conclusions;

Its funny, now that I have a good amp. the weaknesses of the other components show up! The speakers at their highs, the mixers input levels...

So it seems like I have to upgrade my speakers and the mixer........

Thanks for everyones support in this forum, its been very enlightening!

Ferdouse