Tone controls....taboo?

[Thompsonuxb]

I use tone controls, I don't like bypass switches to me they make music sound light weight and robbed of timbre. While I have to be in the mood (mostly its in the mood for dancin) to use my 'bass boost' on my Yamaha I'm not afraid to use it.

Which is why I struggled with the amps I auditioned earlier in the year and ended up with the Rotel 1520 - the only amp with tone controls.

So the question, how many of you look upon tone controls with scorn and why?
is it because of what some magazine said, or some audiphile from the past......

 

[tonky]

I have a cambridge 840A v2 amp. It has tone controls which can be switched in and out - sound quality (to my ears) is inferior when the tone controls are used. Obviously I dont use them. If you take the time to purchase a well balanced system they shouldn't be needed.

 

[MajorFubar]

There are good amps with tone controls (Audiolabs and Arcams for starters), but equally they're often stuck on substandard tat which has a fundamentally-boring and uninspiring sound, in the hope that with the bass and treble whacked up you won't notice how sleep-inducing it would be otherwise. It's a bit like plastering sauce or ketchup over a fundamentally tasteless and uninspiring meal to try to make it at least taste of something. The budget Technics, Kenwood and JVC amps I owned in my youth are all testament to this. Yet conversely I have never come across an amp without tone controls which sounded like it needed them, including my current Marantz PM66 KI and the Cyrus 1 & 2 I used before it..

 

[chebby]

I'm fine with having tone controls. (And using them.)

There is no right or wrong in this matter, just as there is no right or wrong in your preferences when it comes to seasoning your food or what colours you choose to decorate your home with. Other people will (inevitably) get arsey/snobby about it, but it's your taste. They will spend a fortune chopping & changing equipment/cables/supports/stands to tweak the presentation whereas you can adjust a couple of controls for free.

They will have to live with the shortfalls of a favourite (but rough) recording that is rendered unplayable by a super revealing system whereas you can 'tame' it's excesses with a tweak or two.

I have seen numerous instances of people on this forum trying to use an expensive change of cables to alter 'tone' and more people bemoaning poor recordings they can no longer listen to on unforgiving kit.

 

[toyota man]

Hi all +1 I am with Chebby on this one

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Thing is Tonky a well balanced system is harder to come by than slippers made out of rocking horse hide. I mean maybe one of the reasons that there are so many people unable to get satisfaction from their systems is because some bloke they never met is telling them what their supposed to be enjoying....... er...by denying the tone controls.

yep...yes...I'm listening to some old Stones right now......

 

[Paul.]

If all music was recorded uniformly or if you wanted to only listen to one genre, then an amp with no tone controll can in theory be better. But music is not recorded uniformly, and people don't listen to one genre. On my old marantz amp I knew where to put the tone controls for all my favourite albums.

My current amp squirts everything through a DSP no matter how bit perfect the source is, so I may as well fettle

 

[FennerMachine]

The first stereo system I bought had tone controls and I used them extensively.

For my second system I bought the matching graphic equalizer.

I thought music sounded better with it until I used the bypass.

Most music sounded better without the graphic equalizer but some of that was due to it passing though a tape loop. When I compared the direct signal to an 'unaltered' one through the tape loop a distinct difference was heard. The direct signal sounded better. From then on I used a direct path (no tone controls) where possible.

However, my existing preamp/control unit has lots of various tone controls.

I don't use them as I don't fell the need to but for movies I have the option of increasing the bass so I don't 'need' a sub!

Lots of it is down to personal preference.

No two amps sound the same as they are tuned to what the designers think sounds accurate or good.

Having tone controls gives YOU the option of making it sound how you want or balancing it for your room.

 

[plastic penguin]

No issues whatsoever with tone controls. Always had the facility with previous amps, along with 'loudness' buttons or switches. By the same token, not really missed them since the Leema.

 

[basshead]

even if a perfect system could be achieved, odds are it wont be in a perfect room. tone controls are very usefull for adjusting your system to sound best in your room.

 

[tonky]

If you cannot hear much difference to the overall sound quality to the music when tone controls are "in" then be my guest use the tone controls.

For me the difference is chalk and cheese and detracts from the overall listening experience so that no amount of bass/treble tailoring of the sound can improve upon it.

If you think it improves the sound - thompsonuxb - feel free to use them.

btw have you thought of running a thread on graphic equalisers? maybe they are due a comeback.

 

[plastic penguin]

If you cannot hear much difference to the overall sound quality to the music when tone controls are "in" then be my guest use the tone controls.

For me the difference is chalk and cheese and detracts from the overall listening experience so that no amount of bass/treble tailoring of the sound can improve upon it.

If you think it improves the sound - thompsonuxb - feel free to use them.

btw have you thought of running a thread on graphic equalisers? maybe they are due a comeback.

FWIW there's been a number of threads about GEs.

Yes, in a good system it shouldn't need tone controls, but as another poster has alluded to that sound heavily influenced by room acoustics and thus may need tweaking...

In addition there are some 50s and 60s tracks which has less than flattering production, and this is another occasion when tone controls may come in handy.

Some of the worlds biggest manufactuers have tone controls on their amps.

 

[Richard Allen]

As a former studio engineer, may I make an observation please.

After the initial recording had taken place, the track was then played back through the mixer to be engineered or EQ'd. Now then, let's guess at what EQ means. It meant, in my case playing 24 tracks through 24 channels, setting the pan or soundstage if you like and changing the characteristics of each track with, you guessed it, tone controls. In my case, each channel had 4 band parametric EQ. Another word for tone controls.

When I'd finished with it it went to the mastering engineer. He/She then did their bit to each track before the final thing was pressed, downloaded or put on CD. And what did they do?. Used tone controls. Graphic and parametric EQs to be precise.

Why is a sound engineer allowed to EQ the hell out of tracks when HiFiers are condemned for using tone controls on their kit??. They're only doing what we did in a controlled environment in their listening room. More difficult for the HiFier because he/she doesn't live in a controlled environment unless under the mental health act ( padded cell ).

Sometimes, more often than not these days, tracks are over EQ'd and sound crap on a flat system. Engineers of any worth usually take account of modern listening environments hence the 'chalk n cheese' recordings out there.

The only caveat I would put on it is this. Amp manufacturers must make sure that when in the centre position, there is no audible difference from straight thro or bypass with the tone controls on the kit.

 

[eggontoast]

There's nothing wrong with using tone controls or graphic equalizers. Just because a couple of dopey beard strokers have said (putting on a silly high pitched voice while stroking my chin and looking camp in a pair of farah's) "you can't use tone controls and shouldn't need them if you have a decent system" it now has become gospel, well it's BS. As previously mentioned the original recordings vary greatly, I can count on my ten little pinkies the number of albums which are really well recorded and require no eq-ing. This is without mentioning room acoustics and the differences in everyone's ear canals, none of us hear the same anyway. Some of the older amps have excellent tone control circuits which give you the option to set the frequency where they cut in, these were superseded by graphic equalizers which is where the problem comes. Not all GE are equal and very few are good at doing there thing without sucking the life out of the music. Most amps have decent tone circuits though so tweak to whatever sounds good to you and ignore the beard strokers in fact just point and laugh at them :rofl:

 

[WishTree]

Both my pre-amps have tone controls (Infact the CP-800 has 5 band PEQ and Pearl Lite has tri-tone control). I use them for multiple purposes. Some times to even out the response in the room and some times to make the recording sound more to my taste.

Mostly I do not use them either but the comfort that I have them and can use them if needed, makes me feel good.

Tone controls usage is not allowed but experimenting with cables is allowed - This is the widely subscribed 'audiophile' thinking but I am not so much into it :cheers:

 

[cheeseboy]

Why is a sound engineer allowed to EQ the hell out of tracks when HiFiers are condemned for using tone controls on their kit??.

couldn't agree more. And also agree that people are bit crazy if they insist on changing cable to change the tone of their system... erm, the clue is the name tone control

Imagine going to see a live gig and the sound guy saying, ooooo eq - no, that will spoil the sound :rofl:

 

[alchemist 1]

Oh! the shame i have tone controls on my amp. Those naughty men at Yamaha should shot.

 

[MajorFubar]

I think the only useful post-script I can add is to remember that no tone-controls, EQ's or loudness-buttons will compensate for substandard kit. And that's partly why they got a bad name: too often they were plastered on substandard amps to both increase the visible gadget-count and to gloss-over the fact that fundamentally the amp sounded cr*p. Nor, realistically, will any bass-control or loudness-button make the woofer in a 10" tall budget stand-mount sound like range-topping 15" sub. Bear all that in mind and you'll be fine.

 

[chebby]

...that's partly why they got a bad name: too often they were plastered on substandard amps to both increase the visible gadget-count and to gloss-over the fact that fundamentally the amp sounded cr*p.

Equally, some really poor amps were stripped of tone controls to give them 'audiophile' credentials.

 

[MajorFubar]

Yep that's probably true as well, though to a lesser extent.

 

[manicm]

My knee-jerk reaction is to say that they're complete rubbish, but I can understand why some might use them, in small rooms etc.

But ultimately they colour the sound negatively (to my ears).

 

[cheeseboy]

My knee-jerk reaction is to say that they're complete rubbish, but I can understand why some might use them, in small rooms etc.

But ultimately they colour the sound negatively (to my ears).

You're correct, that would be a knee jerk reaction. People use them in big rooms too.

 

[tonky]

Maybe that's what the etc is for?

 

[Covenanter]

I've not felt the need to use them (Marantz 6004) but I will if I feel it will improve the sound. I did experiment this afternoon, having read this thread, with the "Source Direct" option which cuts out the tone control circuits and I couldn't detect any difference. Still I've got it set so that Source Direct is the usual setting now as I can't see the point in putting the signal through circuits that aren't doing anything except maybe degrade the signal a bit. Do others notice any difference?

Chris

 

[8009514]

I've always believed that I have the right to listen to my music the way I want to hear it, i.e. by using tone controls if I want to. Rather than have have someone who I don't know and have never met tell me how I should be listening to it.

Rich