Tone controls....taboo?

[tonky]

It's all about choice and opinion. I don't see anyone telling you how you should be listening to your music.

If you or anyone prefers tone controls - go ahead - your choice. No hard and fast rules apply! I often use tone controls on my dab radio or adjust tone settings on my mp3 player. But not on the hifi - c'est la vie!

tonky

 

[ID.]

Unlike my Arcam ALpha 9, which had to be taken off source direct and you could hear the drop in quality, detail and clarity when using tone controls, my current setup has very well executed tone controls, but my issue with them is that perhaps they don't offer enough control. I usually don't want to the entire bass or treble spectrum boosted or reduced, I want to target more specific frequency bands, so as suggested, maybe a graphic equalizer is the way to go.

TBH, I've played with my tone controls, but I always come back to setting both bass and treble at zero.

 

[MajorFubar]

On most amps I've had with tone controls, I usually find the frequencies are all to c**k. Bass adjustment is usually centred around 100Hz which is 20-40Hz too high: it just creates boom instead of gently filling-out the lower registers to help speakers/recordings which need it. With the treble control, the adjustment is usualy centred around 10kHz, which 2kHz too low: instead of adding a bit of upper-end sparkle to recordings/speakers in need of a bit of life up there, you end up with splashy hi-hats and sibilant vocals. Graphic EQ's would seem to be the answer, but I've never come across a domestic graphic EQ which doesn't obviously deteriorate the SQ, even at flat.

 

[manicm]

My knee-jerk reaction is to say that they're complete rubbish, but I can understand why some might use them, in small rooms etc.

But ultimately they colour the sound negatively (to my ears).

You're correct, that would be a knee jerk reaction. People use them in big rooms too.

If they have to use them in a big room, then there's probably something fundamentally wrong with their system, unless it's not powerful enough.

 

[eggontoast]

My knee-jerk reaction is to say that they're complete rubbish, but I can understand why some might use them, in small rooms etc.

But ultimately they colour the sound negatively (to my ears).

You're correct, that would be a knee jerk reaction. People use them in big rooms too.

If they have to use them in a big room, then there's probably something fundamentally wrong with their system, unless it's not powerful enough.

Well I suppose there was always going to be one. There's something wrong with you system, we should all listen the same blah de blah de blah, come on then why.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Funny thing is if you have tone controls you CAN adjust the sound of your amp to sound like it'll sound while the tone defeat button is engaged.......

 

[BenLaw]

On most amps I've had with tone controls, I usually find the frequencies are all to c**k. Bass adjustment is usually centred around 100Hz which is 20-40Hz too high: it just creates boom instead of gently filling-out the lower registers to help speakers/recordings which need it. With the treble control, the adjustment is usualy centred around 10kHz, which 2kHz too low: instead of adding a bit of upper-end sparkle to recordings/speakers in need of a bit of life up there, you end up with splashy hi-hats and sibilant vocals.

This is the best point that has been made against tone controls. For reasons of personal preference and those expressed by EB Richard, there's nothing necessarily wrong with adjusting the sound, but use of tone controls is such a blunt instrument. Fun for a fiddle but ultimately unsatisfying. Fnar, fnar.

 

[Anonymous]

Using a tone control; for example the bass you always create a 'new problem'.

 

[cheeseboy]

If they have to use them in a big room, then there's probably something fundamentally wrong with their system, unless it's not powerful enough.

:rofl:

Edited.

(less of the potty mouth please - mods)

Depends on the room. Soom rooms are not good with acoustics and any amount of changing amps and cables will not give you the flexibility that an eq would. See my comment earlier about going to see a live gig - you won't see sound engineers running around changing cables to cut out the feedback squeal :rofl: Rooms also change acoustic properties when you put things in them, how many people are in the room etc.. I used to live in one house where no matter what I did with the stereo, the bass would boom due to the wall construction and the way the room was laid out. Low and behold rolling a bit off the bass fixed that.

Not sure why some hifi enthusuiasts ignore some of the most simple fixes like eq, speaker placement and room treatement? Coming from a production background these are the some of the first things to address in order to get things right.

 

[Bluesbren]

It always amazes me how many people dismiss tone controls. They can really add value to a system, especially if the sound is slightly out of balance - maybe your listening environent has a frequency hump, or encourages too much bass/treble, etc. Sound is subjective. Do you not think that when studio engineers are recording or mixing, they're not altering the sound with equalisers and frequncy cuts/enhancers? Of course they are.

Most studio recordings are heavily 'tweaked' depending on the engineer's own personal tastes and monitoring system, etc. Any 'audiophile' would be amazed how much the recorded sound is affected.

That said, why wouldn't you use tone controls to alter the sound to suit your own tastes? The detrimental affect many speak of by using them is also a subjective thing. I for one would prefer a slight (and often very slight) loss in midrange detail to end up with a more pleasing overall tone.

Often the best way to tame a lively system, or enhance an overly warm one.

 

[peterpiper]

I quite like the fact that some 'audiophile' amps are putting them back in , the creek evo50a for example, and why not ? good on them, with a pretty useful + and - 15db boost or cut, no reason to omit them imo. does it really improve performance, if creek can make superb amps with tone adjustment on why not others, or was it just snoby purist fad ,

btw i only tend to boost the bass by 2 db or so on some tracks, mainly listen on flat, but nice to have them

 

[tonky]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! - not that (very) old chestnut again.

I'm not in favour you might gather - inferior sound when switched in - inmvho.

tonky

 

[lpv]

Just use headphones please.

 

[matthewpiano]

Its time the flat earth mentality was put to bed. Nothing wrong with judiciously designed and used tone controls if they help to enhance your enjoyment of some recordings.

The hi-fi world has become too obsessed with rights and wrongs and all too often loses sight of what really matters - how much you enjoy your listening.

 

[davedotco]

For me this is not a 'philosophical' choice but a practical one.

Conventional tone controls that pivot around the 1khz point are, in my view, pretty useless. Just maybe a gentle tilt one way or the other will help darken or lighten a system a little but they are far to coarse to be of any real use.

I usually find that if I want to eq a system, it is the frequency extremes that need attention and tone controls are useless for that. Filtering out some sub bass that does nothing but excite room modes or adding a touch of 'sparkle' to Spotify over Airplay both work well for me but tone controls can really do neither.

Overall I have found some of the bass adjustment common to many active monitors to be useful and should I decide to use a subwoofer I think an Antimode would be essential, furthermore a touch of very high frequency lift in the Spotify eq helps counteract the slightly dull response from Spotify/airplay in my setup.

 

[iMark]

We think that all our sources sound a little bit better when our Yamaha stereo receiver is in Pure Direct mode, which bypasses all tone controls. It also looks better with all controls in the 12 o'clock position. The Pure Direct Mode has another advantage: it stops me tinkering and just enjoy what we've got.

 

[Native_bon]

My self & 4 other friends did a blind test a fews months back with tone controls cut in & cut out for an hour & no one, I mean one was able to tell which was which. But immediately we did it without being blind folded we all thought the tone control cut out sounded better.

How funny the mind works!!

 

[knaithrover]

Ive always liked twiddling with my sound and i go back to when graphic equalizers were compulsory.

I must say though i tended to find a setting i like then stick to it.

With the plethora of sources now I use vinyl, CD, MP3, FLAC, Spotify, Airplay etc etc I find that the facility to tweak the treble up a little or drop the bass (or vice versa) totally indispensible all the formats sound so goddamn different!!!. In selecting an amp therefore it's a deal breaker for me. Finally I'm not saying don't invest in good cables just don't use this method to tweak your sound. That's just my opinion though......don't burn me at the stake ha

 

[CnoEvil]

I have no axes to grind regarding tone controls; but my experience has been that basic tone controls will not turn a system you don't really like, into one that you do. The system needs to work as a whole, and whether there are tone controls, is neither here nor there.

 

[fr0g]

Very late to the party, but I would not buy an amp without tone controls (or at least presets such as those on an AV receiver).

Listening late at night, at low volume, it makes sense to boost the bass, simply because of the way our ears work.

Systems with no tone controls make no sense and I don't buy that they affect the sound quality. It's simply an OCD audiophile nonsense...IMHO.

 

[CnoEvil]

Very late to the party, but I would not buy an amp without tone controls (or at least presets such as those on an AV receiver).

Listening late at night, at low volume, it makes sense to boost the bass, simply because of the way our ears work.

Systems with no tone controls make no sense and I don't buy that they affect the sound quality. It's simply an OCD audiophile nonsense...IMHO.

So there are some specs that are important....you are now moved closer to 3! *diablo*

 

[chebby]

Very late to the party, but I would not buy an amp without tone controls (or at least presets such as those on an AV receiver).

Listening late at night, at low volume, it makes sense to boost the bass, simply because of the way our ears work.

Even Naim now have that on their UnitiQute. (Automatically and progressively reduces the eq as the volume is turned up like a 'clever' loudness control.)

I guess they daren't introduce it on their more 'traditional' products lest the older and more hairy-shirted end of the customer spectrum feint when they discover a TONE CONTROL on it!! (Stiff letter to Paul Stephenson copies to the Telegraph and the local MP.)

As for the DSP lurking in products like the mu-so, i've heard it almost caused a rebellion in the Shires. (Talk of horsewhips and sacrificing Paul Stephenson at Avebury.)

It would be worth the £895 just to contribute to making the old boys even angrier.

Let's get DSP and intelligent digital eq into all of Naim's products!

 

[Vladimir]

Tone controls are for LG and Aiwa. Real audiophiles use different cartridges, platter rubber bands, wooden volume knobs and various cables to tune the sound. If the amp feels it lacks bass and tuning can't improve it, you buy a new amp. No tone controls.

 

[peterpiper]

vlads hit the nail *mosking*

seriously though i only find they are needed at low to moderate volumes to add richness , rather like a loudness button, although I hate loudness as they colour the sound too much at both ends,

at higher levels the sound is generally better and more balanced with the bypass on, and fact my amp is not the most powerful in the world the bass boosted up with high volumes is going to push things and possibly end in tears,

 

[peterpiper]

Its time the flat earth mentality was put to bed. Nothing wrong with judiciously designed and used tone controls if they help to enhance your enjoyment of some recordings.

The hi-fi world has become too obsessed with rights and wrongs and all too often loses sight of what really matters - how much you enjoy your listening.

back with the denon ? nice turntable btw , hows it sounding with the at95,

as 'sound for your pound' goes it can't be beat imo