Tone controls

[Edbostan]

For many years I had all my amps set to a specific setting in the bass and treble dept. One day I tried my present amp the CXA60 in the Direct setting and I have left it that way now Yes at first it sounded strange and can I say a bit lifeless to my ears but now I wouldn't use any other setting.

I know what you mean. If I use the direct setting on my Onyko amp the volume decreases by a notch and also sounds a tad leaner. I have selected direct while listening to Gregory Porter while writing this and I could get used to it.

 

[Gray]

I know what you mean. If I use the direct setting on my Onyko amp the volume decreases by a notch and also sounds a tad leaner. I have selected direct while listening to Gregory Porter while writing this and I could get used to it.

Seems to me that you two may have discovered why (some) others don't need or want tone controls 👍

 

[Al ears]

Seems to me that you two may have discovered why (some) others don't need or want tone controls 👍

I a roundabout way because to have a source direct button implies the amp has tone controls......
So if you don't need them why buy an amp with them incorporated?

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Maybe it's the best for the job/budget otherwise?

 

[Al ears]

Maybe it's the best for the job/budget otherwise?

quite possibly however I would try to avoid paying for something I am never going to use and have done so throughout my hifi gathering years.
there are always cheaper alternatives without the gimmicks that will do the job especially as this is essentially about amplifiers

 

[Gray]

I a roundabout way because to have a source direct button implies the amp has tone controls......
So if you don't need them why buy an amp with them incorporated?

Yes his amp has got tone controls.....but he's finding he's getting used to the flat sound of source direct .
If there'd been an option I'd have chosen a PM66KI without them, but Marantz like to fit them, so no choice.
A few people have suffered crackly / intermittent source direct buttons, ironically, solely there to bypass the adverse effects of tone controls 🤪.

 

[Al ears]

Yes his amp has got tone controls.....but he's finding he's getting used to the flat sound of source direct .
If there'd been an option I'd have chosen a PM66KI without them, but Marantz like to fit them, so no choice.
A few people have suffered crackly / intermittent source direct buttons, ironically, solely there to bypass the adverse effects of tone controls 🤪.

All the more reason to keep it simple.....
The more things fitted = more things to go wrong.

 

[knaithrover]

I was brought up on tone controls and I like having them on my modern kit. If I buy an amp without them I put a Schiit Loki into the chain.

 

[CheshirePete]

This has nothing to do with original post.

Yes it has, this is not your forum so just pipe down.

 

[Edbostan]

I a roundabout way because to have a source direct button implies the amp has tone controls......
So if you don't need them why buy an amp with them incorporated?

I suppose it broadens the market for the manufacturer who supply a product for both camps. If you need them, use them; if not bypass them.

 

[Al ears]

I suppose it broadens the market for the manufacturer who supply a product for both camps. If you need them, use them; if not bypass them.

there is that but my thinking is if you don't need them don't buy them.....

 

[Barnaby]

Hmm. I was going to start a thread about speaker cables but I'm probably going to leave it

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Yes it has, this is not your forum so just pipe down.

One of the thankless tasks moderators undertake is trying to stop topics from sprawling - it's in the forum's rules and is not personal. There's nothing proprietorial in the post to which you refer. Discussing moderation is also not permitted by forum rules, so let's leave that and go back to topic.

What Hi-fi? Official Community Rules | What Hi-Fi? Forum (whathifi.com)

 

[shadders]

Yes it has

Hi,
Yes, the OP stated :
"In the software age, we seem to have them in the way of EQ controls but I would quite like manufacturers to include them on amps again."
Dirac is a software solution to equalisation or tone controls. Tone controls are hardware based using a simple filter function. They are pretty blunt in their effect compared to an equaliser or Dirac which is much more fine grained tone control.

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[nopiano]

Hmm. I was going to start a thread about speaker cables but I'm probably going to leave it

 

[nopiano]

Hi,
Yes, the OP stated :
"In the software age, we seem to have them in the way of EQ controls but I would quite like manufacturers to include them on amps again."
Dirac is a software solution to equalisation or tone controls. Tone controls are hardware based using a simple filter function. They are pretty blunt in their effect compared to an equaliser or Dirac which is much more fine grained tone control.

Regards,
Shadders.

Yes, that’s surely the point? Tone controls were fine on a radiogram or table radio, but they’re usually far too broad brush for the subtlety an audiophile seeks. Once tone controls seemed to detract more than they added it was easier to delete them, and the rationale of keeping things simple had merit too. Digital controls are infinitely more focussed.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

From what I can see in smaller homes as in the UK, smaller speakers + sub is the way to go, and will be superior to any tone controls.

With all things being equal a sub/sat (regardless of the size of the mains) combination can give the most optimum performance

A subwoofer is the most important component.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Bass will be overwhelming when you have large speakers in a small room.

Not necessarily. If effectively optimised large mains and also a sub/s can perform perfectively well in small rooms. Pic below shows SCM50ASLT + C4 Sub in the small living room of a terraced house -

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Now people think to get the same effect they have to buy an expensive subwoofer....

I use an expensive subwoofer. And?

 

[MeanandGreen]

I use an expensive subwoofer. And?

And he clearly has no idea about the use and implementation of subwoofers. It’s also highly likely he’s never heard a system with a well integrated sub.

 

[MeanandGreen]

Tone controls still exist in many amplifiers and always have done. It‘s just a case of avoiding those models that don’t include them if they are something you want.

 

[Gray]

Tone controls still exist in many amplifiers and always have done. It‘s just a case of avoiding those models that don’t include them if they are something you want.

If it dictates a person's choice of amp then I reckon they're unnecessarily limiting (and possibly compromising) their options - perhaps missing out on an overall better sounding amp - for the sake of correcting the odd wrongly recorded track.
But I understand that some people can't be without tone controls 😐

 

[Barnaby]

I'm not really wondering if they are bad or good or what is the best way to implement tone control. I probably wouldn't let it dictate my choice of amp. I asked because it seemed to me that there was a definite trend away from tone controls a few years back. If my recollection and perception is correct most amps did have them in the old days. I'm still not sure why they fell out of favour, if indeed this shift actually occured.

 

[Gray]

I
If my recollection and perception is correct most amps did have them in the old days. I'm still not sure why they fell out of favour, if indeed this shift actually occured.

Your recollection is correct.
As Al said in post #2, in those old days more was more when it came to buttons, switches and knobs. Tone controls were just part of the trend to simplify and in terms of quality, people learned that less is more......if not straight away, then often after a few years when contamination finds its way between the contacts of the necessary extra controls and bypass switch.

 

[MeanandGreen]

I'm not really wondering if they are bad or good or what is the best way to implement tone control. I probably wouldn't let it dictate my choice of amp. I asked because it seemed to me that there was a definite trend away from tone controls a few years back. If my recollection and perception is correct most amps did have them in the old days. I'm still not sure why they fell out of favour, if indeed this shift actually occured.

The simple answer is marketing and brain washing. The hi fi press and some manufactures lead people to believe that bass and treble controls were the work of the devil. Ultimately people were charged more for less.