To my ears USB cables do make a difference.

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Jasonovich

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Misinformation has been around since humans could talk. Whats new? How can you tell who's making stuff up and who's telling the truth.
Where cables are concern, particularly those that transmit digital data, I think, there are equal doses of snake oil and equal doses of genuine products that make a difference.

I suppose in the sphere of capitalism, selling your product at a market price are not always adhered to, the mechanism of supply and demand not always apply. You create a brand and people buy into it as long as they can keep parading 'Our ethics and Good Practice' pony around the circus rink, it's not to say all manufacturers are like that.
It really is a case of Caveat Emptor, YouTube is both good and bad, hopefully people have the good sense to stay away from the clowns. I always seek out 3 or 4 reviews and look at the consistency. A red flag is when one of them says 'Nah' and keep throwing 'Schitts DAC in your face', not once but every time they review a new DAC product on the market, there's a lot of product placement going on, on Youtube, so it is a bit of a minefield.

Anyway, still on the subject of digital cables. I can't recall who suggested it on this thread but thanks for the tip, and I have to say, I'm a sucker for persuasion but this is all good, I'm glad I listened.

I did upgrade my switch box to QNAP 2500 Mbps, not the product that was suggested and this made sense, my Virgin 5 Hub only had one 2500 Mbps port, now I have five - whoopee.

Although my subscription with Virgin is for 1300 Mbps hyperfibre, I was getting 700-800 mps max and now with this small upgrade I'm getting close to the theoretical bandwidth 1000 Mbps or more, I'm not sure how that translate to sound quality, I don't want to go there! :)
but I am getting more detail and a sharper 4K picture (OK I went there!).......to my Eyes ....hahaha

I will say also, replacing my old ethernet cables to Cat8 has made a difference to the internet, a lot more stability.
I brought those orange 22AWG OFC 3m cables from AliExpress for about £26. It makes sense if you're streaming a lot to have good cables. I'm not sure how much of a benefit if you're using ADSL but certainly direct fibre connection there will be some benefits.

One of the customers who brought the same, noted, - see below the jitter decreased by four fold.
I'm bringing up this old chestnut but is it really just binary 0 1 0 1?


1691413236650.png


1691413290269.png
 
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Friesiansam

Well-known member
One of the customers who brought the same, noted, - see below the jitter decreased by four fold.
I'm bringing up this old chestnut but is it really just binary 0 1 0 1?
All digital information, whether music or anything else, is in binary form, i.e. 1s and 0s. As for Jitter, any DAC worth it's salt, will control the timing itself with it's own clock and in doing so, eliminate jitter.
 

Jasonovich

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2022
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All digital information, whether music or anything else, is in binary form, i.e. 1s and 0s. As for Jitter, any DAC worth it's salt, will control the timing itself with it's own clock and in doing so, eliminate jitter.
But but but... :) if the errors are reduced on transmission, surely that's good?
 

Friesiansam

Well-known member
But but but... :) if the errors are reduced on transmission, surely that's good?
But, but, but what? If the error rates with USB were high enough to be problematic, it would be useless for use with computers, whatever you are doing. The actual error rates are so low with USB, out of necessity for it to work with computers, that claims of reducing data errors, with high priced cables, are pure BS.
 

abacus

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Sep 24, 2008
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Where cables are concern, particularly those that transmit digital data, I think, there are equal doses of snake oil and equal doses of genuine products that make a difference.

I suppose in the sphere of capitalism, selling your product at a market price are not always adhered to, the mechanism of supply and demand not always apply. You create a brand and people buy into it as long as they can keep parading 'Our ethics and Good Practice' pony around the circus rink, it's not to say all manufacturers are like that.
It really is a case of Caveat Emptor, YouTube is both good and bad, hopefully people have the good sense to stay away from the clowns. I always seek out 3 or 4 reviews and look at the consistency. A red flag is when one of them says 'Nah' and keep throwing 'Schitts DAC in your face', not once but every time they review a new DAC product on the market, there's a lot of product placement going on, on Youtube, so it is a bit of a minefield.

Anyway, still on the subject of digital cables. I can't recall who suggested it on this thread but thanks for the tip, and I have to say, I'm a sucker for persuasion but this is all good, I'm glad I listened.

I did upgrade my switch box to QNAP 2500 Mbps, not the product that was suggested and this made sense, my Virgin 5 Hub only had one 2500 Mbps port, now I have five - whoopee.

Although my subscription with Virgin is for 1300 Mbps hyperfibre, I was getting 700-800 mps max and now with this small upgrade I'm getting close to the theoretical bandwidth 1000 Mbps or more, I'm not sure how that translate to sound quality, I don't want to go there! :)
but I am getting more detail and a sharper 4K picture (OK I went there!).......to my Eyes ....hahaha

I will say also, replacing my old ethernet cables to Cat8 has made a difference to the internet, a lot more stability.
I brought those orange 22AWG OFC 3m cables from AliExpress for about £26. It makes sense if you're streaming a lot to have good cables. I'm not sure how much of a benefit if you're using ADSL but certainly direct fibre connection there will be some benefits.

One of the customers who brought the same, noted, - see below the jitter decreased by four fold.
I'm bringing up this old chestnut but is it really just binary 0 1 0 1?


View attachment 5020


View attachment 5021
Check the transmission rate of your streaming services, and you will find the maximum speed is well below what Cat5e cable can transfer up to 100m in length.

Bill
 

Revolutions

Well-known member
Aug 6, 2023
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I presume this is another win for psychoacoustics.

Just like my recent adventures in high quality streaming - the improvements are really slight, and quite possibly imagined by my brain that wants to hear a better sound as that was what I spent money on.
 
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daveh75

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Jul 31, 2008
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I presume this is another win for psychoacoustics.

Yep

Just like my recent adventures in high quality streaming - the improvements are really slight, and quite possibly imagined by my brain that wants to hear a better sound as that was what I spent money on.

Almost certainly imagined, you'd be remarkable if you could detect a difference under blind/abx test conditions

You can test it easily for yourself if you're so inclined.


 
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Jasonovich

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2022
994
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But, but, but what? If the error rates with USB were high enough to be problematic, it would be useless for use with computers, whatever you are doing. The actual error rates are so low with USB, out of necessity for it to work with computers, that claims of reducing data errors, with high priced cables, are pure BS.
There are two stools
You either sit on A
The electrical noise that comes along with the data affects the sound. Even USB cable changes affect sound because the noise is altered by the characteristics of the cable.
View: https://youtu.be/qKP1NAqvvJ4

Or B
This is because USB cables, used between a computer and a DAC for example, don't transmit any audio – they transmit data. Consequently, any variations in the electrical aspects of the USB cable will have no impact on audio quality, dynamics, or any other aspect
View: https://youtu.be/T9o_eZGaaMk


And never the twain shall meet 🤔

That old BBC video is amazing, I pinched it from another cable forum on another site. I have noticed some consistency in peoples opinions, even over there, there appears to be more Nayers than Sayers, such a derisive subject!
 
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Jasonovich

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Jul 28, 2022
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4K UHD streaming only requires 25Mbps at best.

Cat5e is good for 1Gb upto 100m and can actually handle 10Gb upto around 30 - 40m in length.

3 metres of Cat8 will have sweet FA impact on streaming...
I won't pretend I know anything about ethernet cables, this may be down to quality and design, it may not?
I was having intermittent problems with connection. It may be down to Virgin Media or possibly the old unmanaged switch box or both.
Changing the switch box and replacing the old cat5e cables with cat8 has made things work better.

There's nothing inane about wishing to hook up your system with decent cables, be it USB, ethernet or are you someone who binds their Splendors with bell wire?

Yes I agree, spending over and above what's necessary may be a case of psychoacoustics but who cares, if it makes you happy?

If we accept science is the only interpretation of the truth, then I think we're being simplistic, surely not?
I work in local government finance, I sleep, eat and dream numbers, so maybe I'm trying to break away from looking at things in binary 😊
 
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Revolutions

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Aug 6, 2023
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Had a demo set up with a CEN.Grand Audio DSDAC 1.0 Advanced DAC @ £6k btw. Used a basic USB cable and a basic mains lead. Both cables worked a treat. Simple and effective -

View attachment 5031

View attachment 5032
It’s well-known that you need to run usb cables in a faraday cage to eliminate the noise that allows the high-end products to deliver in the region of 1.4-1.8x improvement in sonic delivery across multiple media.
 

daveh75

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2008
978
378
19,270
I won't pretend I know anything about ethernet cables, this may be down to quality and design, it may not?
I was having intermittent problems with connection. It may be down to Virgin Media or possibly the old unmanaged switch box or both.
Changing the switch box and replacing the old cat5e cables with cat8 has made things work better.
It could've of been a dodgy cable or switch, it definitely wasn't because you replaced Cat5e with Cat8

There's nothing inane about wishing to hook up your system with decent cables, be it USB, ethernet or are you someone who binds their Splendors with bell wire?

Yes I agree, spending over and above what's necessary may be a case of psychoacoustics but who cares, if it makes you happy?

Nothing wrong with using quality cables, the problem starts when audiophiles attribute magical properties to them or advocate spending x amount of your system value on them etc, etc and presenting it as fact.

All my cables are either Amazon Basics or of similar budget or homemade.

My Yammy and Jordan's are strung together with 4mm 'Arctic' cable (the bright orange stuff you see on lawnmowers, strimmers etc) because that's what I had to hand at the time and it's stranded copper...


If we accept science is the only interpretation of the truth, then I think we're being simplistic, surely not?

It's what we have, and it isn't a belief system btw!

Everything else is just subjective twaddle.

As an aside, did you escape from 'the wam' out of curiosity?
 
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podknocker

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Feb 5, 2021
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Haha! I love these cable threads. People who don't understand physics are totally convinced a shiny cable, made from unicorn horn, or some other shite, can make a difference to the signal, especially a digital one. Lovely aesthetics and overcomplicated designs and marketing are brainwashing so many people, with more money than sense, or an education, by the sounds of it. I love it. Keep 'em coming! The most I would spend on a USB cable is £10 and a £10000 cable won't make any difference. If every cable on earth, including the mains supply, was made from pure silver, it would still sound the same. The only change would be an increase in transmission efficiency, due to silver having the best electrical conductivity of any metal. People are wasting their money and I stopped doing that years ago, when I realised a large chunk of the HIFI community lives in a self perpetuating and promoting echo chamber of pretentious delusion. It's a cable clique and they don't fool me.
 

podknocker

Well-known member
Feb 5, 2021
999
862
5,770
Where cables are concern, particularly those that transmit digital data, I think, there are equal doses of snake oil and equal doses of genuine products that make a difference.

I suppose in the sphere of capitalism, selling your product at a market price are not always adhered to, the mechanism of supply and demand not always apply. You create a brand and people buy into it as long as they can keep parading 'Our ethics and Good Practice' pony around the circus rink, it's not to say all manufacturers are like that.
It really is a case of Caveat Emptor, YouTube is both good and bad, hopefully people have the good sense to stay away from the clowns. I always seek out 3 or 4 reviews and look at the consistency. A red flag is when one of them says 'Nah' and keep throwing 'Schitts DAC in your face', not once but every time they review a new DAC product on the market, there's a lot of product placement going on, on Youtube, so it is a bit of a minefield.

Anyway, still on the subject of digital cables. I can't recall who suggested it on this thread but thanks for the tip, and I have to say, I'm a sucker for persuasion but this is all good, I'm glad I listened.

I did upgrade my switch box to QNAP 2500 Mbps, not the product that was suggested and this made sense, my Virgin 5 Hub only had one 2500 Mbps port, now I have five - whoopee.

Although my subscription with Virgin is for 1300 Mbps hyperfibre, I was getting 700-800 mps max and now with this small upgrade I'm getting close to the theoretical bandwidth 1000 Mbps or more, I'm not sure how that translate to sound quality, I don't want to go there! :)
but I am getting more detail and a sharper 4K picture (OK I went there!).......to my Eyes ....hahaha

I will say also, replacing my old ethernet cables to Cat8 has made a difference to the internet, a lot more stability.
I brought those orange 22AWG OFC 3m cables from AliExpress for about £26. It makes sense if you're streaming a lot to have good cables. I'm not sure how much of a benefit if you're using ADSL but certainly direct fibre connection there will be some benefits.

One of the customers who brought the same, noted, - see below the jitter decreased by four fold.
I'm bringing up this old chestnut but is it really just binary 0 1 0 1?


View attachment 5020


View attachment 5021
Cat 8 is useful, if you want to connect switches in data centres. It's overkill for any domestic installation. You might find short runs of this stuff in Google buildings, but I doubt anyone else would need this bandwidth.

 
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