The marantz pm6004. Overrated, faulty or needs breaking in?

[greggydoom]

Hi everyone,

so, I bought a brand new marantz pm6004 from richer sounds the other day at the reduced price of £239. Quite honestly, I am amazingly disappointed, and thought I would consult the hifi gurus here for any pointers before I possibly return it this weekend.

First things first, I did demo it at the shop. What baffles me is that it was demoed with the monitor audio bx1's and actually sounded surprisingly got good on them. I have the bx2's and expected to hear an even better result, however I was greeted with a very dissapointing sound.

Through source direct mode, there is barely any mid range. Sure, things sounded a bit more detailed, but there seemed like there was a massive chunk of the soundstage completely missing. It felt amazingly stifled, as though I was playing a badly compressed mp3 (which I wasn't by the way). When I switch the loudness button on, it solves the lack of midrange, but then the bass seems way too overpowered, undefined and sloppy and the whole detail that was good in source direct mode goes out of the window.

My previous kit was an old rotel from the early 90's that had been gifted to me and apparently cost between £200 and £300. In comparison, the rotel sounded miles better, however I wanted a new amp because there was a problem with the left channel which would cut out every now and then. The rest of my kit that I have transferred to my marantz is a project genie 1.3 with ortofon red cart, and the monitor audio bx2's. admittedly, I don't have a dac for my iPod yet, however, it sounded a lot better dac less on the rotel than the marantz. I just don't understand why everything sounds so bad on it. I honestly feel like the marantz is holding the rest of the system back.

i am currently letting it 'break in' at the moment, but do not really believe that an amp benefits from such a process, and am therefore not expecting any impressive results.

Can anyone help me on this? Am I missing something or doing something wrong? Does it sound like it is faulty or like it needs 'breaking in'? Or am I being amazingly picky for a £299 piece of kit reduced to £239.

 

[cheeseboy]

sounds more like a mixture of amp/speakers and more importantly how they interact with your room. Personally I don't buy the whole running in thing for amps.

Have you tried moving your speakers around, see if that makes any difference?

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I don't know about your unit, but when i was in the market to buy a new amp i've demo the yamaha AS500 and didn't like it, and i ask my self: where is the sound that What Hi-Fi describes...?

But you liked the Marantz on the demo, therefore give it some time to burn in, leave it on 24/7 for 3/4 days.

The other issue might be the cable, are they new? Are you using banana plugs?

There are equipments that are sensitives to that kind of change, the Brio r is, I don't know if the Marantz is... It might be...

 

[BigH]

What sort of volume are you playing it at?

Rooms have a very large effect on sound.

A Rotel costing £200-£300 20 years ago would have been pretty good so I would not expect a 6004 to be any better. The 6004 has a rep for being a bit lightweight for its Watts rating, if you are having to use the loudness button sounds like an NAD maybe better.

 

[Singslinger]

I'm not sure about the Marantz in particular, but I believe amps in general do benefit from a spot of running-in.

Cambridge Audio for example, recommend on the packing box at least 36 hours continuous play for its new 851A. I believe Naim also recommend a certain period (can't remember how long) for its amps.

 

[Covenanter]

I have the PM6004 with none of the symptoms you describe and it was fine straight out of the box. I did audtion it with the MA speakers and thought it was fine but the speakers themsleves somewhat lacking in certain respects (which is why I went with Kef in the end).

It is of course possible that you have a faulty box, although Marantz have always been known for good quality control. Try some of the things others have suggested!

Chris

PS I wasn't aware it had a Loudness button! It wouldn't occur to me to press it.

 

[relocated]

If I were you it would be going back. For you to notice such a difference I can't imagine that there isn't a problem with it. Burning in of things like amplifiers is more about you getting acclimatised to the sound than the amplifier actually getting any better.

Even with you acclimatising there is always going to be a niggle in the back of your mind that will never go away. Richer have always been an honourable company in my dealings with them and in strict legal terms you have every right to swop or get your money back as it isn't 'satisfactory'.

I trust that you will succeed in finding a satisfactory replacement.

 

[BenLaw]

Being of satisfactory quality is not the same as 'are you satisfied with it' but I agree going back to richers is sensible and that they are likely to be helpful whatever the precise legalities of it.

 

[BigH]

I don't think you have any legal right to a refund, unless you bought online or by mail order then distance selling rules would apply. If not happy best to take it back and see what they can do for you.

 

[ear]

for me I wouldn't have neither the BX2 nor the PM6004.Dont find any of those particularly good. The amp is good with treble and midrange, not with bass, the speakers lack midrange ( a lot of it).

 

[Al ears]

Personally I would take it back and ask if you can audition it again with their bx1's. If it still sunds as good as you remember then sell your bx2's.

 

[Blackdawn]

You may have already done this, but I would run in your speakers a lot first before deciding. I doubt the BX2s would have such good midrange as Dali's for example but its should be perfectly good. The other thing you should look into is getting a source - like a CD player to get the best out of your system. An ipod simply is not that good as a source IMO. But I see you have vinyl as well so not to worry.

 

[Cypher]

for me I wouldn't have neither the BX2 nor the PM6004.Dont find any of those particularly good. The amp is good with treble and midrange, not with bass, the speakers lack midrange ( a lot of it).

Do you really think the BX2 lacks midrange ? I own them and IMO it's one of the most balanced speakers I've ever heard.

 

[greggydoom]

Hi guys, thanks for all of the very helpful replies. I'm taking into account everything you are all saying. I'll give a proper reply later when I am back home as I am currently on my break at work. At the moment, I think my mind is swinging towards taking the pm6004 back to richer sounds. I know they have a 7 days returns policy for non faulty items, but anything that has been opened or used will be subject to a 'handling fee'. Quite honestly, as long as its no more than 10% then I don't mind. As I said, I will make a proper reply later. Thanks so far!

 

[BigH]

Ha da quick search and have seen 10% fee mentioned but this maybe reduced if you buy another item for similar price. I would talk to the manager, see what they can do.

 

[relocated]

Being of satisfactory quality is not the same as 'are you satisfied with it' but I agree going back to richers is sensible and that they are likely to be helpful whatever the precise legalities of it.

I agree Ben but the particular circumstances here fit very well with the practical application of the relevant legislation.

To OP,10% handling fee is something you should not agree to and I am sure that if you are only mildly forceful Richers won't press it,

 

[BenLaw]

Being of satisfactory quality is not the same as 'are you satisfied with it' but I agree going back to richers is sensible and that they are likely to be helpful whatever the precise legalities of it.

I agree Ben but the particular circumstances here fit very well with the practical application of the relevant legislation.

To OP,10% handling fee is something you should not agree to and I am sure that if you are only mildly forceful Richers won't press it,

Well, if it was within spec then it would not fail the test of being of satisfactory quality. It sounds to me more likely this is a problem of using different speakers and rooms. But if an alternative replacement amp is chosen and given the nature of the problems, they really oughtn't to be charging any fee.

May be worth the OP amending the thread title to include Richer Sounds in it as I know they're on the forum from time to time and tend to respond to these types of threads very helpfully.

 

[BigH]

Unless the amp. is faulty then he has no right to a refund, just because you buy an amp and you don't like the sound is not the same.

Sounds like 10% is worst case so no big deal at £24 but get them to take that off if you buy something else from them.

 

[Johnno2]

Just a thought, have you checked you speaker phasing, this would cause the sucked out midrange you complain of, Marantz amps normaly have a good full sounding midrange,

 

[relocated]

May be worth the OP amending the thread title to include Richer Sounds in it as I know they're on the forum from time to time and tend to respond to these types of threads very helpfully.

A most useful piece of information to share with us all. Well Richer customers anyway.

 

[Fred24]

To OP,

As an owner of the BX2 and Yamaha AS500. I originally auditioned the Marantz PM6004 with the matching CD 6004. I personally found the PM 6004 quite detail especially in the midrange and treble department, but however the bass was very weak on the BX2. I also found it a bit on the bright side which in opinion cause fatigue when listening for the first 15 minutes. I end up taking the Yam As500 as it was warmer, with better punch and less ear fatigue. However the PM6004 has slightly more sharp and detail midrange..the snare drum and voice on some tracks were more pronounced. However I couldn’t accept the bass weak. I am now happy with the sound of the BX2 with As500. For what the BX2 cost they are good speakers to my ears.

Hope this helps you..

regards

 

[Jame5]

Swap the whole lot for active speakers.

Just kidding.

Not a hi fi guru, but amp burn in is not the issue IMO. Amp/speaker synergy also unlikely to create the scale of issue you're describing - neither component is reckoned to be lacking in the midrange. I don't see how it can be your room acoustics when you're not experiencing the same issue with the Rotel. Have you checked that you're running the speakers in phase?

Consider a couple of other things:

The Rotel is on its last legs - maybe you have got used to an unbalanced sound.

You could ask Richer to try the PM6004 alongside their demo model (maybe they would let you take the demo model home for a day - if not then in the shop). That could rule out a fault.

On a separate note, I believe you will experience a large jump in sound quality over the ipod's analogue output if you move to a proper hi fi DAC (even a budget option).

 

[Jimbo1234]

I've been auditioning the PM6004 and I wasn't blown away. My current set up is a NAD C320 BEE AE Aegis 1 speakers running through QED Silver Anniversary speaker wire. I now play all my music through my Airport Express.

The Marantz was very clear with great detail apart from the base which was very light. I found the sound just not as enjoyable for me.

However the missing detail you are experiencing doesn't seem right. Very good amp for the money and sounded great through my old speakers. Just the bass issue for me or I just not taken to the 'Marantz sound'

 

[Johnno2]

I've been auditioning the PM6004 and I wasn't blown away. My current set up is a NAD C320 BEE AE Aegis 1 speakers running through QED Silver Anniversary speaker wire. I now play all my music through my Airport Express. The Marantz was very clear with great detail apart from the base which was very light. I found the sound just not as enjoyable for me. However the missing detail you are experiencing doesn't seem right. Very good amp for the money and sounded great through my old speakers. Just the bass issue for me or I just not taken to the 'Marantz sound'

strange, having owned a NAD C352 and PM6004 the Marantz sounded surprisingly fuller in my room and system , I traded it in a for a more powerful PM 7001 to drive the big MA floorstanders to high levels which has a similar sound

i suppose matching components, music type and room acoustics have an effect