The Loudness War in pictures

[MajorFubar]

Ever wonder what the Loudness War looks like in pictures? This is the track 'Calypso' from the 1990 Jean-Michel Jarre album 'Waiting For Cousteau'. The top file is a rip from my 1990 original CD. The bottom file is the 2014 remaster. Irrespective of whether you are a Jarre fan or not, I can confirm the bottom file sounds as awful as it looks. Shame.

 

[MajorFubar]

 

[MajorFubar]

sorry it took two posts. Adding the picture in the first post just simply got the whole thead deleted. Never before have I ever used a forum that is so fundamentally EDITED.

 

[MattSPL]

Thanks for posting the pictures, that really does show how they ruin music these days.

 

[Vladimir]

I am speechless. I've seen less compression in Lady Gaga albums.

 

[MajorFubar]

The original file had an RMS level of -16dB which was common for modern pop/rock/electronic music at the time. The new version is -10.3dB

 

[SteveR750]

Is that an analogue signal? Is it not possible to reduce the loudness in the digital environment (easier with 24 bit)? J River allows you to set a clip limit loudness limit in its DSP.

 

[Anderson]

Is that an analogue signal? Is it not possible to reduce the loudness in the digital environment (easier with 24 bit)? J River allows you to set a clip limit loudness limit in its DSP.

You could certainly reduce the overall volume, you could do that with J River or you could use the volume control, both would have the same effect. The issue here is that the dynamic (maximum - minimum) range has been compressed. This means there isn't much difference between the loudest passages and the quietest passages, this robs the music your listening to from its musicality.

Unfortunately you can't uncompress the sound.

 

[MajorFubar]

The modern version is 6dB louder because it's had its dynamics smashed. They both peak at 0dB

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Is this what you're talking about Major...?*biggrin*

 

[MajorFubar]

lol where's the 'like' button *biggrin*

 

[SteveR750]

The modern version is 6dB louder because it's had its dynamics smashed. They both peak at 0dB

OK, got it. Thanks. Can it be fixed by cables?

 

[Vladimir]

 

[steve_1979]

*clapping*

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Yep, bit of a JMJ fan too, fortunately I have all his earlier CD's on original pressings, none of this loudness carp on those. All the current crop of record company execs and audio engineers should be taken out the back and shot! Now where's my Luger...

 

[DocG]

I see... So "Digitally Remastered!" is not a quality label! It' a warning, along the lines of

 

[peterpan]

Is the Lyngdorf tdai 2170 with the icc - chip the solution for this?

 

[DocG]

Is the Lyngdorf tdai 2170 with the icc - chip the solution for this?

I haven't heard it. Have you? It might work, though it's guesswork after all...

And for the Major's JMJ example, the chip wouldn't know where to start, would it?

 

[Glacialpath]

Exactly why 1. I hate mastering and 2. I always try to buy the original pressings of any 80s and 90s music on CD.

I'ts also why I wonder why the Music industry hasn't jumped on Blu-Ray and release albums on a duel BD/CD format.

That way they can still make their money screwing up music when they put the PCM to CD but alow us enthusiasts to have a full dynamic version of the PCM.

I know I've said this before but it's just how these things make me feel.

 

[lindsayt]

MajorFubar, does your software have the ability to highlight clipped sections in red?

If not, if you zoom in, does it look like there's a lot of digital clipping on the 2nd version?

 

[SteveR750]

MajorFubar, does your software have the ability to highlight clipped sections in red?

If not, if you zoom in, does it look like there's a lot of digital clipping on the 2nd version?

Whuich surely can be addressed in the digital file? If it was recorded compressed then understand you can't do anything about it, but if the loudness bits are too high, can these not be reduced? How does J River impose volume levelling to prevent clipping?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Surprised by those images - the last few CD's I've bought have been outstanding.

Genuinly hi resolution to my ears .

I am guessing the original master of these albums has been lost and the remaster is taken from tape which have suffered in storage hence the compression to gain some ''quality'' back.

That's not the norm, surely.

Last CD Ed Shearans 'X'.

 

[steve_1979]

I am guessing the original master of these albums has been lost and the remaster is taken from tape which have suffered in storage hence the compression to gain some ''quality'' back.

Eh?

 

[Anderson]

MajorFubar, does your software have the ability to highlight clipped sections in red?

If not, if you zoom in, does it look like there's a lot of digital clipping on the 2nd version?

Whuich surely can be addressed in the digital file? If it was recorded compressed then understand you can't do anything about it, but if the loudness bits are too high, can these not be reduced? How does J River impose volume levelling to prevent clipping?

You're getting just a tiny bit confused.

Clipping occurs when peak volume exceeds 0db when this happens the top and bottom of a waveform become clipped off (it looks flat), when this occurs you're getting solid voltage applied to your speakers, this is most likely to cause damage to your tweeters.

You can reduce clipping with JRiver by applying peak limiting, this reduces the volume of the peaks or in other words compresses the sound, you can imagine squishing the peaks down so they don't exceed 0db (or any peak volume you determine). Compressors are used extensively in live and production environments, they are very useful peices of kit.

The thing with compression is that it cannot be undone, think of it like making an mp3 from your favourite CD. You can't restore the information back to your mp3 its a one way process. Similarly when a studio applies compression / reduces dynamic range, remember dynamic range is the difference between the quietest/loudest its set in stone, you can't retroactively restore the range.

I'm crap at explaining.

Google; loudness wars, dynamic range, peak limiting, compression.

 

[MajorFubar]

I am guessing the original master of these albums has been lost and the remaster is taken from tape which have suffered in storage hence the compression to gain some ''quality'' back.

That's not the norm, surely.

Last CD Ed Shearans 'X'.

No it's purely to raise the RMS (average) volume to that of modern material