The listening position

[sublime]

Looking through the forums about speaker placement, cables, hi-fi stands and furniture, room treatments, ideal seating positions, etc... how many of you get the chance to sit in this perfect triangle and listen to your tunes? I'm always doing something and even when I'm on the sofa I'm usually horizontal and not in the optimal seating position.

On a related note: I'm replacing my floorstanders for bookshelves soon and I'm thinking of just putting them on shelves somewhere rather than stands - is spending £800 on speakers and placing them on shelves madness?

 

[The_Lhc]

On a related note: I'm replacing my floorstanders for bookshelves soon and I'm thinking of just putting them on shelves somewhere rather than stands - is spending £800 on speakers and placing them on shelves madness?

Yes it is, they're called Standmounters for a reason...

 

[Broner]

Looking through the forums about speaker placement, cables, hi-fi stands and furniture, room treatments, ideal seating positions, etc... how many of you get the chance to sit in this perfect triangle and listen to your tunes?

That happens like.... never.

 

[matthewpiano]

I do, for at least an hour most evenings. That time helps me to unwind from the working day.

 

[sheggs]

The triangle is only the starting point. It is about making the best of the room you do have . Here is some things to avoid however -

When it comes to room setup, there are a lot of dos and don’ts. Here is a list of things to avoid if at all possible in order to get the best sound.

- Don’t put your seating right against a wall, back or side. This is the worst place in any room for smooth frequency response.

- Don’t put ANY speaker or sub that isn’t specifically designed to be built in inside a cabinet or build it into a wall. You’ll drastically change the response curve. The crossovers are specifically designed for a specific frontal area on the cabinet.

- Don’t put a sub in a corner if you can help it. Almost never is this even close to the best place for a sub. While it will yield the most sheer output, it will also yield the least smooth frequency response curve.

- Don’t force too big a screen into a room. This causes you to compromise on seating and speaker positioning. Set the seating right FIRST, then look at the appropriate screen size for that viewing distance that still allows good speaker placement.

- Don’t run your main speakers full range. Get a sub and let it do it’s job. Almost never is the best place for imaging and locking sound to the screen a good place for smooth bass reproduction. Cross your speakers at 80 Hz (this can vary slightly) and put your mains where they need to be. Then you can move the sub around to find the best place for bass response without messing other things up. The side benefit is taking off a huge load from your mains and the amp that’s driving them – leaving more headroom for increased dynamics without clipping the amp.

 

[MrReaper182]

I spend at lest 1 hour (sometimes more) sitting on my sofa listening to music most days. when I sit on my sofa and listen to my music I am in the perfect triangle. Music means a lot to me and I enjoy nothing more than siting down and hearing every detailed note come out of my speakers. Your get the best sound out of your new speakers if you buy speaker stands for them to sit on.

 

[sublime]

The triangle is only the starting point. It is about making the best of the room you do have . Here is some things to avoid however -

When it comes to room setup, there are a lot of dos and don’ts. Here is a list of things to avoid if at all possible in order to get the best sound.

- Don’t put your seating right against a wall, back or side. This is the worst place in any room for smooth frequency response.

- Don’t put ANY speaker or sub that isn’t specifically designed to be built in inside a cabinet or build it into a wall. You’ll drastically change the response curve. The crossovers are specifically designed for a specific frontal area on the cabinet.

- Don’t put a sub in a corner if you can help it. Almost never is this even close to the best place for a sub. While it will yield the most sheer output, it will also yield the least smooth frequency response curve.

- Don’t force too big a screen into a room. This causes you to compromise on seating and speaker positioning. Set the seating right FIRST, then look at the appropriate screen size for that viewing distance that still allows good speaker placement.

- Don’t run your main speakers full range. Get a sub and let it do it’s job. Almost never is the best place for imaging and locking sound to the screen a good place for smooth bass reproduction. Cross your speakers at 80 Hz (this can vary slightly) and put your mains where they need to be. Then you can move the sub around to find the best place for bass response without messing other things up. The side benefit is taking off a huge load from your mains and the amp that’s driving them – leaving more headroom for increased dynamics without clipping the amp.

Thanks for the info. I was considering a sub so you've answered a few questions in advance. Is partnering a sub with a set of monitors a simple exercise or will there be a synergy to discover like between amp and speakers? I don't have a telly, the speakers currently sit either side of a fireplace about 8ft apart, replacing the floor-standers with monitors will allow me to put the speakers on 2 inch oak shelves (at a reasonable listening height)

 

[matt49]

Assuming your shelf is nice and solid and no part of it is interfering with dispersion from the drivers, you can get a decent response from some speakers on shelves.

Rear-ported speakers would be a bad idea. Closed box or front-ported would generally be better.

I used to have a pair of Sonus faber Venere 1.5s on a (very substantial) built-in bookcase, and they worked pretty well. They've now migrated to a different room, where I have them on stands; I think they now sound less good.

Matt

 

[sheggs]

One thing I always say though is try out different things and experiment; never be scared of giving it a go. Ofcourse you can buy specific speakers for shelves etc as well

 

[Glacialpath]

- Don’t put a sub in a corner if you can help it. Almost never is this even close to the best place for a sub. While it will yield the most sheer output, it will also yield the least smooth frequency response curve.

Unless it's one of the Rel Subwoofers that is built to go in the corner and face the wall. My rel Q50 is set up this way and it uses the room. it sounds amazing.

It sounded ok in the traditional position but now it really sounds good. The spec might not actually be for the Q50 but this is in the manual for the rest of the Q range.

 

[andyjm]

Thanks for the info. I was considering a sub so you've answered a few questions in advance. Is partnering a sub with a set of monitors a simple exercise or will there be a synergy to discover like between amp and speakers? I don't have a telly, the speakers currently sit either side of a fireplace about 8ft apart, replacing the floor-standers with monitors will allow me to put the speakers on 2 inch oak shelves (at a reasonable listening height)

IMO it is extremely difficult to partner a sub with a set of monitors if you want a seamless integration between the two for music playback. I have posted elsewhere about this, but unless you have the time and the test equipment, I would put the money for the sub toward a better pair of monitors.

 

[davedotco]

Thanks for the info. I was considering a sub so you've answered a few questions in advance. Is partnering a sub with a set of monitors a simple exercise or will there be a synergy to discover like between amp and speakers? I don't have a telly, the speakers currently sit either side of a fireplace about 8ft apart, replacing the floor-standers with monitors will allow me to put the speakers on 2 inch oak shelves (at a reasonable listening height)

IMO it is extremely difficult to partner a sub with a set of monitors if you want a seamless integration between the two for music playback. I have posted elsewhere about this, but unless you have the time and the test equipment, I would put the money for the sub toward a better pair of monitors.

Or possibly an integrated system like this....

http://www.unityaudioproducts.co.uk/pebble_bam_bam.php

Expect it to be around £2.5k.

 

[jonathanRD]

Perfect triangle for me too - sofa at least a metre in from the window, speakers (on stands) at ear height and out in space along with the sub.

Like others, I will retreat into this room for an hour to unwind last thing at night.

 

[DocG]

Perfect triangle for me too - sofa at least a metre in from the window, speakers (on stands) at ear height and out in space along with the sub.

Like others, I will retreat into this room for an hour to unwind last thing at night.

I think it won't hurt to stress this aspect once more! Many people know they should give their speakers some breathing room, but a listening seat right against the backwall is just as detrimental!

 

[matt49]

I think it won't hurt to stress this aspect once more! Many people know they should give their speakers some breathing room, but a listening seat right against the backwall is just as detrimental!

As things stand (or should I say sit) I have no choice but to sit up against a wall. And it was indeed detrimental until I surrounded my listening chair with GIK absorbent panels. (Nice plug there!)

I hope we'll be moving house this summer, and I'll get a bit more space to play with.

Matt

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Back to the wall here sadly. I know its 'bad' but wonder what this situation creates. What aspects of the surround sound will manifest itself?

 

[matt49]

I felt there were problems with HF echoes off the back wall. It tended to exaggerate sibilance.

Matt

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I recognise the theory of hf reflection but cant really hear it in my room. Maybe I would need to remove it before I could hear it? My sofa is high backed too which may help to absorb reflections at ear level.

 

[sublime]

Thanks for the info. I was considering a sub so you've answered a few questions in advance. Is partnering a sub with a set of monitors a simple exercise or will there be a synergy to discover like between amp and speakers? I don't have a telly, the speakers currently sit either side of a fireplace about 8ft apart, replacing the floor-standers with monitors will allow me to put the speakers on 2 inch oak shelves (at a reasonable listening height)

IMO it is extremely difficult to partner a sub with a set of monitors if you want a seamless integration between the two for music playback. I have posted elsewhere about this, but unless you have the time and the test equipment, I would put the money for the sub toward a better pair of monitors.

Thanks for the advice, will bare this in mind

 

[BenLaw]

I recognise the theory of hf reflection but cant really hear it in my room. Maybe I would need to remove it before I could hear it? My sofa is high backed too which may help to absorb reflections at ear level.

Try crouching in the middle of your room for a bit and see if you hear any difference. If you don't I wouldn't get over-excited about any of this.

 

[BenLaw]

Unless it's one of the Rel Subwoofers that is built to go in the corner and face the wall. My rel Q50 is set up this way and it uses the room. it sounds amazing.

It sounded ok in the traditional position but now it really sounds good. The spec might not actually be for the Q50 but this is in the manual for the rest of the Q range.

I was wondering how long it would be until you stopped signing yourself off in every post as the cablemadman. 52 posts.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Thanks Ben. Tho crouching is not my best option I will chill out as suggested and ask for a little help to get back up.

 

[BenLaw]

I specifically suggested crouching rather than sitting in order to replicate an accurate head height. However, maybe you have access to a suitable side table or foot stool.

 

[matthewpiano]

There aren't many normal homes where you can avoid having the sofa backed up against the wall and there has to come a point where the hi-fi fits into the living space.

I don't experience any particular problems from this so it isn't something I'm going to worry about.

 

[BenLaw]

I have the bay window area behind my head. I've never really like bay windows as they seem like wasted space, so this seems a good use for one.