The Kef Reference thread

[CnoEvil]

It'll be interesting to put the Reference 3 up against the Twenty.26, particularly on the end of a Devialet as they can both take advantage of SAM technology.

That was in November, so what were your findings?

 

[Frank Harvey]

It'll be interesting to put the Reference 3 up against the Twenty.26, particularly on the end of a Devialet as they can both take advantage of SAM technology.

That was in November, so what were your findings?

Not had a chance! Busy start to the year, numerous demos, Record a Store Day (a surprising amount of time goes into the build up to days like RSD and our annual open day!), and various other concerns have taken up a lot of time this year - I can't believe it's almost the end of May already! It'll happen at some point...

 

[Frank Harvey]

IMO. The new Refs achieve the difficult balance of giving incredible detail, combined with remakable realism. They disappear to the point that only the performance is left.

And the Blades are even better *diablo*

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm planning to have a listen next weekend and I'll be taking my 'SAM'd for KEF REF1's Devialet 200' with me. - I want to auditon some TT's too. (LP12 'Akurate spec' and an SME 20/3a).

I've moved this over here, so as not to disrupt the other thread.

Did you scratch your itch?

I would love to hear your impressions....warts and all.

IMO. The new Refs achieve the difficult balance of giving incredible detail, combined with remarkable realism. They disappear to the point that only the performance is left.

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO. The new Refs achieve the difficult balance of giving incredible detail, combined with remakable realism. They disappear to the point that only the performance is left.

And the Blades are even better *diablo*

Tell me something I don't know........like Ref 3 vs Twenty 26!! *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[Infiniteloop]

I'm planning to have a listen next weekend and I'll be taking my 'SAM'd for KEF REF1's Devialet 200' with me. - I want to auditon some TT's too. (LP12 'Akurate spec' and an SME 20/3a).

I've moved this over here, so as not to disrupt the other thread.

Did you scratch your itch?

I would love to hear your impressions....warts and all.

IMO. The new Refs achieve the difficult balance of giving incredible detail, combined with remarkable realism. They disappear to the point that only the performance is left.

Didn't happen this weekend. We had to have one of our horses put down. - Very sad. Wasn't in the mood much for HiFi shenanegans.

Having a listen next Saturday...

 

[CnoEvil]

We had to have one of our horses put down. - Very sad. Wasn't in the mood much for HiFi shenanegans.

I'm very sorry to hear that.

I grew up with horses, so know how attached to them you become.

 

[Infiniteloop]

We had to have one of our horses put down. - Very sad. Wasn't in the mood much for HiFi shenanegans.

I'm very sorry to hear that.

I grew up with horses, so know how attached to them you become.

Thanks Cno.

 

[peterpan]

Does anyone knows the Kef Reference Model One? I'm looking at a warm sounding speaker without bright highes and who are forgiving for my rock and metal cd's. A dealer told me speakers today are very open and revealing and thats why my music sounded horrible on these speakers. His advice: A old Kef Reference. I saw a Kef Reference Model One for 400,-- Euro.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Does anyone knows the Kef Reference Model One? I'm looking at a warm sounding speaker without bright highes and who are forgiving for my rock and metal cd's. A dealer told me speakers today are very open and revealing and thats why my music sounded horrible on these speakers. His advice: A old Kef Reference. I saw a Kef Reference Model One for 400,-- Euro.

The new Reference are more forgiving than the old Reference - in the same way that the R Series is more forgiving than most previous KEF models. They are revealing, but there's something about the newer designs (since their development of the Blades) that seems to deal with lesser quality recordings. Although, as I've mentioned somewhere else on this forum, I'm not sure some of these albums are actually that badly mastered, it's just that some systems don't make the most of them. If the dealer is saying that music sounds horrible on them, then he's not pairing them with the right electronics, or setting them up properly. Or both.

With the old Reference range you're talking about, it is the second, much updated models like the Model One Two that were significantly better (although the price reflected that at the time).

 

[jjbomber]

Does anyone knows the Kef Reference Model One? I'm looking at a warm sounding speaker without bright highes and who are forgiving for my rock and metal cd's. A dealer told me speakers today are very open and revealing and thats why my music sounded horrible on these speakers. His advice: A old Kef Reference. I saw a Kef Reference Model One for 400,-- Euro.

Sounds a bargain to me, as long as they're well looked after. If they are Rosetta Burr finish, even better. Enjoy.

 

[peterpan]

Does anyone knows the Kef Reference Model One? I'm looking at a warm sounding speaker without bright highes and who are forgiving for my rock and metal cd's. A dealer told me speakers today are very open and revealing and thats why my music sounded horrible on these speakers. His advice: A old Kef Reference. I saw a Kef Reference Model One for 400,-- Euro.

The new Reference are more forgiving than the old Reference - in the same way that the R Series is more forgiving than most previous KEF models. They are revealing, but there's something about the newer designs (since their development of the Blades) that seems to deal with lesser quality recordings. Although, as I've mentioned somewhere else on this forum, I'm not sure some of these albums are actually that badly mastered, it's just that some systems don't make the most of them. If the dealer is saying that music sounds horrible on them, then he's not pairing them with the right electronics, or setting them up properly. Or both.

With the old Reference range you're talking about, it is the second, much updated models like the Model One Two that were significantly better (although the price reflected that at the time).

I'm a little confused now. I read on forums from people who find a kef R500 has too sharp highes. they recommend a Dynaudio (Excite X34). But i've never heard a Dynaudio who sound nice with rock and metal. Always a little boring.

But you find the Model One not so good?

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm a little confused now. I read on forums from people who find a kef R500 has too sharp highes. they recommend a Dynaudio (Excite X34). But i've never heard a Dynaudio who sound nice with rock and metal. Always a little boring.

I'm not David, but I have never heard the R500s sound sharp....on the contrary, they have (imo) a smooth detailed treble, slightly golden mid range and a full bass that needs controlled properly.

 

[steve_1979]

... slightly golden mid range ...

I've been hanging around hifi forums for a few years now but that's a new one on me.

 

[CnoEvil]

... slightly golden mid range ... 

I've been hanging around hifi forums for a few years now but that's a new one on me.

I can't help it.....I'm nuts!

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'm a little confused now. I read on forums from people who find a kef R500 has too sharp highes. they recommend a Dynaudio (Excite X34). But i've never heard a Dynaudio who sound nice with rock and metal. Always a little boring.

This is all down to personal preference. Many will find the R Series on the smoother side and more laid back in comparison to older KEF models, but many will still find them "sharper". I use quotation marks on sharper as sharper isn't necessarily a bad thing. If anything, I see sharper as a positive trait. But some take sharper as being brighter/harsher, which is of course a negative. We all hear differently, and we'll all hear them with different amplification in different rooms and with different source material, which will affect the end result.

But you find the Model One not so good?

I wasn't as keen on the first range as I was the second range. I wasn't a KEF dealer when the 200 Reference Series was released, but I heard a similar thing about the 200/2 Series being noticeably better, which I liked. To be honest, I always preferred the Model Two anyway, which had dual internal bass drivers - just sounded punchier with better bass presence.

 

[peterpan]

Okay. I can also buy a Kef Reference Model One-Two for a price between 400-475 Euro and understand this is better. It is not in black, but you can't have everything.

Some people said with my music look at B&W, but i've heard the 683S2 and again harsh highes. And don't like the sound. Don't know if the CM8s2 has smoother highes. I also heard the MA silver 6. Nice enthousiasm sound with my music but again the highes are on the bright side. I've heard this with a Naim amp. Not my favorite brand (hate it). I like the sound of NAD amps.

In the end; It will be a old Kef Reference like the Model One-Two or the Kef R500 (new for 1425 Euro). Other speakers all too bad for my ears. I haven't heard the Dynaudio Excite X34. Maybe i must listen to them, but a Dynaudio dealer is far away from me.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Trust me the r series are far from harsh with the correct amplification. Everything has a budget and these speakers will need a comparable amp to drive them

 

[Infiniteloop]

Just thought I'd add my report on my audition of the new KEF Ref 1's I heard yesterday.

I was auditioning these as part of a listening session which included an SME Turntable and using my Devialet 200 Amp. Firstly the KEF's look beautiful and have real 'presence' without being overdone. Build quality is immaculate and I would be more than happy to give them house room. The Devialet was pre configured with SAM for the KEF's (short port) and the on-board phono stage configured for an Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge. Straight away I was surprised at how clean the sound was. A very low noise floor meant that the sound, apart from the odd vinyl 'pop' and 'click' was very smooth and detailed. Almost like a hi-res digital file but more organic. I did find the bass a little boxy and the treble a little dry and this was confirmed when later the KEF's were swapped for a pair of my familiar Focal Electra 1008Be's which had a more liquid treble and upper mids, the bass less boxy and the sound was more 'open'.

I did like the KEF's a lot though and I was expecting to feel a need to swap them for the Focals in my main system until I listened again with the Focals.

Whilst I was there I reconfigured the Devialet so that I could listen to a Linn LP12 (Akurate spec). By comparison, the Linn sounded like it was asleep.

I was very impressed with the SME and feel a purchase coming on.....

 

[matt49]

Which SME was that, Andrew?

Before committing it might be worth trying a Michell Orbe. If I were going to take the plunge, I'd be interested in something like an Orbe with SME IV or V arm and maybe a Sumiko Blackbird. Great SQ for rather less moolah than an SME TT.

 

[CnoEvil]

Just thought I'd add my report on my audition of the new KEF Ref 1's I heard yesterday.

I was auditioning these as part of a listening session which included an SME Turntable and using my Devialet 200 Amp. Firstly the KEF's look beautiful and have real 'presence' without being overdone. Build quality is immaculate and I would be more than happy to give them house room. The Devialet was pre configured with SAM for the KEF's (short port) and the on-board phono stage configured for an Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge. Straight away I was surprised at how clean the sound was. A very low noise floor meant that the sound, apart from the odd vinyl 'pop' and 'click' was very smooth and detailed. Almost like a hi-res digital file but more organic. I did find the bass a little boxy and the treble a little dry and this was confirmed when later the KEF's were swapped for a pair of my familiar Focal Electra 1008Be's which had a more liquid treble and upper mids, the bass less boxy and the sound was more 'open'.

I did like the KEF's a lot though and I was expecting to feel a need to swap them for the Focals in my main system until I listened again with the Focals.

Whilst I was there I reconfigured the Devialet so that I could listen to a Linn LP12 (Akurate spec). By comparison, the Linn sounded like it was asleep.

I was very impressed with the SME and feel a purchase coming on.....

I was wondering how things went, so it's good hear what you thought.

I was hoping that you would find that they mixed the openness and detail of the Focals, with the organic naturalness of the SFs.....and to a degree, that is what you heard.

I didn't find the bass boxy in the Ref 3s, so I wonder if its a trait of the Ones....did you hear them without SAM? I heard them on the end of the Arcam A49, which probably ensured that the treble was not dry. I also suspect that if you like the "Focal Treble", it is hard to settle with a different presentation.

I found Focals to be more forward in the treble than the previous Refs, which themselves are more forward than the current Refs.

I'm glad you tried them, even though it sounds as if Focal is still in pole position.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Just thought I'd add my report on my audition of the new KEF Ref 1's I heard yesterday.

I was auditioning these as part of a listening session which included an SME Turntable and using my Devialet 200 Amp. Firstly the KEF's look beautiful and have real 'presence' without being overdone. Build quality is immaculate and I would be more than happy to give them house room. The Devialet was pre configured with SAM for the KEF's (short port) and the on-board phono stage configured for an Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge. Straight away I was surprised at how clean the sound was. A very low noise floor meant that the sound, apart from the odd vinyl 'pop' and 'click' was very smooth and detailed. Almost like a hi-res digital file but more organic. I did find the bass a little boxy and the treble a little dry and this was confirmed when later the KEF's were swapped for a pair of my familiar Focal Electra 1008Be's which had a more liquid treble and upper mids, the bass less boxy and the sound was more 'open'.

I did like the KEF's a lot though and I was expecting to feel a need to swap them for the Focals in my main system until I listened again with the Focals.

Whilst I was there I reconfigured the Devialet so that I could listen to a Linn LP12 (Akurate spec). By comparison, the Linn sounded like it was asleep.

I was very impressed with the SME and feel a purchase coming on.....

I was wondering how things went, so it's good hear what you thought.

I was hoping that you would find that they mixed the openness and detail of the Focals, with the organic naturalness of the SFs.....and to a degree, that is what you heard.

I didn't find the bass boxy in the Ref 3s, so I wonder if its a trait of the Ones....did you hear them without SAM? I heard them on the end of the Arcam A49, which probably ensured that the treble was not dry. I also suspect that if you like the "Focal Treble", it is hard to settle with a different presentation.

I found Focals to be more forward in the treble than the previous Refs, which themselves are more forward than the current Refs.

I'm glad you tried them, even though it sounds as if Focal is still in pole position.

I did try them with SAM off and they seemed even drier.... The bass just seemed a little 'wooden' too.

They would probably fare better with my S8, but I am already very well served there with the SF Cremona Auditor M's which are a truly lovely combination.

Like I said, I did like them and if there hadn't been the Focals to hand for a comparison, I would have remained very impressed. I wanted to hear them as I was expecting them to be better than the Focals, but slightly relieved as I can put off upgrading my main speakers for a while longer. (Maybe the Utopia's.....)

The REF 3's were there too, but they are way too big for my lounge. Mrs loop would never allow them in, so not much point listening to them ( I generally prefer the presentation from standmounters anyway).

 

[Infiniteloop]

Which SME was that, Andrew?

Before committing it might be worth trying a Michell Orbe. If I were going to take the plunge, I'd be interested in something like an Orbe with SME IV or V arm and maybe a Sumiko Blackbird. Great SQ for rather less moolah than an SME TT.

The 20/3. I was completely blown away by the sound. To the point where I wondered how on earth CD had managed to almost bury vinyl as a high quality medium.

I don't know if you've seen one of these up close, but the engineering and overall quality is exquisite.

As you know, I'm a designer and this thing presses all the right buttons for me!

The other interesting thing is just how good the Phono stage in the Devialet is.

Also, being able to reconfigure the Devialet so easily made swapping to an LP 12 for comparison quick and easy.

 

[matt49]

Yes, I did a demo a few months ago: Linn Majik TT vs SME 20/5 vs Copland CDA825. All through a D200 and Martin Logan Montis. (This was chez KJ WestOne.)

I thought the SME was remarkably close to the Copland, though I preferred the latter. I was listening to the classic Carlos Kleiber recording of Beethoven 7 on vinyl and CD. I didn't like the Linn at all: too woolly.

I agree that the SME engineering is admirable and beautiful (if you like that kind of thing ...).

I think you'd also like the engineering of the Michell Orbe.

 

[peterpan]

Infiniteloop, what do you mean with dry treble? Bright, uncontrolled treble? Etcy, unpleasant?