The Good, The Bad & The Ugly (Online Sales)

Crocodile

New member
Jan 15, 2009
38
0
0
Visit site
The Good

Bought an Onkyo TX-8050 from Superfi to have a play with in the hope it really was as good as the hype. It wasn't, so requested a return under DSR & Superfi duly obliged with no dramas. It was returned on Friday & yesterday (Wednesday) I had confirmation of satisfactory receipt/inspection & issue of refund. Won't hesitate to buy from them again. :clap:

The Bad

Wanted to try the original Leema Pulse when the Brighton branch of SSAV were clearing them. Unfortunately their policy, in direct breach of DSR, is that they will only accept returns if the box is unopened. So that was the end of that. :shame:

The Ugly

Agreed a sale or return deal for some used kit being sold by HiFi Corner of Edinburgh/Falkirk. They wanted me to pay shipping both ways if I returned the item which I was prepared to do. So after agreeing this £1,500 deal in principle two weeks ago today, I was just waiting for them to come back to confirm & take payment. I never heard from them again. Business must be good north of the border... :doh:
 

moon

New member
Nov 10, 2011
47
0
0
Visit site
So where do you go from here in your quest for audio improvement.

What you need is a Magnificent Seven.

:star:
 

ROTH AV

New member
Mar 4, 2011
9
0
0
Visit site
What happened to that thing that people used to do...you know....going to an actual shop...getting advice and input from someone that knows what they are talking about....and making a purchase based on what you hear with your own ears and with input from the shop staff, maybe reading a mazagine or two beforehand....you know....the sensible, intelligent and honourable way to make a purchase ?

As far as I can see above, there's now a retailer (Superfi - very good people) with what was a brand new unit who now has to sell it as 'B' stock (by law) and this results in hugely eroded profit. Every time this happens, it gets tougher to pay the rent. You're also criticising another retailer for trying to protect their business (SSAV - again, very good people).

And then finally putting the boot into another (very well respected) retailer HiFi Corner for not calling you back. Maybe they haven't called you back because they've figured out that doing business like this will result in them being down at the Job Centre in a month or so, as they will have gone out of business ?

This isn't about distance selling regulations (or whatever you think DSR means) - it's about you taking advantage of a very tough retail environment - it's your own personal 'try before you buy' scheme because you're not prepared to support your local retailer for the sake of saving a few quid.

Seriously - any retailer reading your post will have their head in their hands.

And people wonder why the specialist hifi sector is struggling - guess what - this is a perfect illustration of why.

By the way - this post is very much my own personal view and doesn't reflect the views of the company that I work for. I have to put this last line in because I am so !@£$ing angry at what I have just read that I had to send a response although I was asked by my colleagues to go and have a lie down instead.
 

sonycentre

Well-known member
May 30, 2009
50
0
18,540
Visit site
Very well said AV ROTH i could not have put it better myself but the bad news is this will always happen a lot of people really don't care.Ive learned to chill and not let it wind me up so much anymore.
 
Crocodile said:
The Good

Bought an Onkyo TX-8050 from Superfi to have a play with in the hope it really was as good as the hype. It wasn't, so requested a return under DSR & Superfi duly obliged with no dramas. It was returned on Friday & yesterday (Wednesday) I had confirmation of satisfactory receipt/inspection & issue of refund. Won't hesitate to buy from them again. :clap:

The Bad

Wanted to try the original Leema Pulse when the Brighton branch of SSAV were clearing them. Unfortunately their policy, in direct breach of DSR, is that they will only accept returns if the box is unopened. So that was the end of that. :shame:

The Ugly

Agreed a sale or return deal for some used kit being sold by HiFi Corner of Edinburgh/Falkirk. They wanted me to pay shipping both ways if I returned the item which I was prepared to do. So after agreeing this £1,500 deal in principle two weeks ago today, I was just waiting for them to come back to confirm & take payment. I never heard from them again. Business must be good north of the border... :doh:

In the real world you'll always have this problem. The only product I've ever purchased online was the Leema. Actually that's not strictly true. I phoned them and ordered it for home delivery...:)

As the other poster suggested: Always best, IMHO, to do it the old fashioned way, and *** into a local high street dealer (or nearest dealer) and that way you're almost guranteed customer satisfaction.
 

seasonsdownfall

New member
Jan 9, 2012
39
0
0
Visit site
I'm not disagreeing with you, however as your signature suggests you're the founder of ROTH AV LTD? So in turn it does reflect your companies view on this matter...
 

John Duncan

Well-known member
ROTH AV said:
By the way - this post is very much my own personal view and doesn't reflect the views of the company that I work for.

Though presumably, as founder, it's pretty close :)

Whilst I don't agree with, say, the lax returns policies of shops in the States where people effectively can 'try before they buy', would you agree though, James, that the 'specialist hifi industry' is some way behind the curve when it comes to internet sales, where many brands forbid sales of their products by mail order, on pain of losing dealership? To me this smacks of price fixing or cartels or whatever.
 

Excitable Boy

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2011
30
0
18,540
Visit site
Crocodile said:
The Ugly

Agreed a sale or return deal for some used kit being sold by HiFi Corner of Edinburgh/Falkirk. They wanted me to pay shipping both ways if I returned the item which I was prepared to do. So after agreeing this £1,500 deal in principle two weeks ago today, I was just waiting for them to come back to confirm & take payment. I never heard from them again. Business must be good north of the border... :doh:

You waited two weeks for them to call you back to confirm a deal for something you wanted to buy ?? Really ?? You must have wanted it really seriously !!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The downside of the internet age. It's not always greener on the other side. :type:
 

moon

New member
Nov 10, 2011
47
0
0
Visit site
Wow what a post Mr Roth, fair play.

I have to say the advantages of using your Local hifi retailer are plentiful. If you are a regular Hi Fi buyer at a shop and have a good relationship with them can open a few nice doors such as: regular discounts( some quite considerable), a willingness to let you try anything at home, having a good laugh, detailed product information and help with any problems.

I know it's the salesmans job to pamper you a bit, but hey, I like that and it kicks into touch the impersonal online selling.

:)
 

harveymt

New member
Jul 17, 2008
182
0
0
Visit site
I disagree completely with the Roth post. We are entering a new world as regards how we shop and the products we buy. Companies will have to adapt to that or they fold.

I see many shops on the high street and wonder how long they have left. How long will there be an HMV on the high street when digital downloads become the norm? Most kids I know only download so when my age group and up stop buying CDs who will? Will there be a Waterstones when ebooks are the norm?

These are mass market items that will have difficulties. How are specialist hi-fi items going to fare any better?

It will be up to retailers or manufacturers to come up with ways of staying profitable. If returned items are going to be a problem then find a workaround. Why could manufacturers not offer demo models that could be hired for a period of time so people could try before they buy. Why could manufacturers not club together and invest in showroom space, perhaps in cheaper industrial units. A full range of items from several manufacturers could be under one roof with people able to try different combinations as they wished.

You adapt or you die. I've had to completely overhaul my business the last few years just to keep going. I have no sympathy for businesses that think everything should be as it always has been.
 

The_Lhc

Well-known member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
1
19,195
Visit site
harveymt said:
A full range of items from several manufacturers could be under one roof with people able to try different combinations as they wished.

You've never been to a hi-fi shop then? You can do that now. Buying hi-fi isn't like buying a book (as much as I like books and will always buy from a bookshop rather than online if possible).
 

ROTH AV

New member
Mar 4, 2011
9
0
0
Visit site
Seasonsdownfall / John - yep - I guess the fundamental principles of honour and fair-play extend through our business. But, someone within Roth AV might disagree with me on this specific matter so they always have the right to express their own views. And then they'll be put on the naughty step and made to sell a £ 100 HDMi cable.

With regard to John's comments on the specialist hifi industry and general business practice / internet sales, etc., I'm not privy to details of how other brands manage their distribution, so can't comment directly.
 

Crocodile

New member
Jan 15, 2009
38
0
0
Visit site
ROTH AV said:

Those that have access to a number of dealers courtesy of where they live are very fortunate. For a lot of us, a single dealer in a town 20 miles away who doesn't stock what you want to buy isn't much use. So ranting away that I'm somehow depriving them of business if laughable.

DSR is afact of life for Internet retailers. If they don't want to abide by it they can simply choose not sell that way. It says a lot about you & your business that you support SSAV in the flouting of these regulations. I'll make a mental note to add you to the Bad. Of course crying over having to sell an open box at a discount completely ignores the profits made on dozens of other sales for simple box shifting. Oh, & while we're crying about an open box, what about the open box that the hight street dealer has to sell off at a discount after his demo?

HiFi Corner will end up at the Job Centre by selling me something second hand, with me paying the shipping both ways if i return it? Get a grip, they'll have lost nothing other than not haing the stock on display for a week.

sonycentre said:
Very well said AV ROTH...
Here goes another one piping up. Please post the address of your Sony Centre so that next time I want to demo an Onkyo product, I'll know where to come!

Excitable Boy said:
You waited two weeks for them to call you back to confirm a deal for something you wanted to buy ?? Really ?? You must have wanted it really seriously !!!
No, I waited 48 hours before deciding I'd buy elsewhere.

Edited by mods - breach of house rules
 

seasonsdownfall

New member
Jan 9, 2012
39
0
0
Visit site
ROTH AV said:
But, someone within Roth AV might disagree with me on this specific matter so they always have the right to express their own views. And then they'll be put on the naughty step and made to sell a £ 100 HDMi cable.

Haha!
 

hoopsontoast

New member
Oct 1, 2011
12
0
0
Visit site
Crocodile, where abouts in the country are you, thats so far away from a decent dealer?

So I guess you want to try these items and if you dont like then send them back? Sort of takes the piss, why not get a demo first to see if you like it. Thats why Hifi Dealers own/rent shops, you know, so you can actually hear it first.

or, just use eBay, may be a better bet for you to buy second hand/ex demo discounted items.
 

The_Lhc

Well-known member
Oct 16, 2008
1,176
1
19,195
Visit site
Crocodile said:
Those that have access to a number of dealers courtesy of where they live are very fortunate. For a lot of us, a single dealer in a town 20 miles away who doesn't stock what you want to buy isn't much use.

You're right, that's why I have to travel at least 50 miles to hear kit. It's not that big a deal, make a day of it, you're thinking of spending hundreds, if not thousands of pounds, half a tank of fuel is barely worth worrying about.
 

harveymt

New member
Jul 17, 2008
182
0
0
Visit site
The_Lhc said:
You've never been to a hi-fi shop then? You can do that now. Buying hi-fi isn't like buying a book (as much as I like books and will always buy from a bookshop rather than online if possible).

I've been in plenty of hi-fi shops and the service I've recieved in most of them is laughable.

I realise shops provide the above facility but there are plenty of threads on here about shops that don't have items in stock to demo. My point was that if manufacturers directly provided a demo facility either home trial or in unit somewhere they could ensure all their range was present. Several manufacturers clubbing together would lower costs. If people could demo through the manufacturers this might alleviate some of the pressure of returns on shops. I am not clued in on the ins and outs of hi-fi retail but it would seem a new approach is needed to selling hi-fi rather than whinging about the Internet destroying your business.

Extending your arguement about books and how you buy them in-store to other items, how many people are like that? Most of everyone I know currently buys what they can online. In another 10, 20 years surely most people will be like that?
 
ROTH AV said:
This isn't about distance selling regulations (or whatever you think DSR means) - it's about you taking advantage of a very tough retail environment - it's your own personal 'try before you buy' scheme because you're not prepared to support your local retailer for the sake of saving a few quid.

Actually, THIS IS about DSR which clearly states that you're allowed to try products at home in the same way as you would try in a shop. And not everyone is sentimental enough to support local retailers. DSR actually gives you more rights as compared to buying from a shop. Why do you expect the consumers to not take advantage of it then? If you have an issue about losses due to open box items etc., then the retailers should take that with the Government, rather than ignore DSR which is actually illegal.

This is a difficult economic environment both for retailers as well as consumers (the retailers often forget the latter). Like it or not, internet sales will continue to grow stronger solely on cheaper price & ease of buying. No point in moaning about it, because that won't change things. What's needed is creating reasons to shop from your local retailer. Shopping from Currys etc. in-store is actually worse than shopping online from likes of Amazon due to their poor after sales support.

In my case, it's pretty straightforward; if I want to buy a 32-inch or smaller TV, I'll buy it online. Larger than 32 inches, I'll buy it in-store (mainly due to the 5 year warranty - now that's a way to encourage in-store sales!). Other Hi-Fi & AV equipment; I'll buy it in-store after an extensive demo. If I need anything I do not want to demo (which includes PS3, blu-ray players, iPod docks etc.) I'll buy it online.
 

hoopsontoast

New member
Oct 1, 2011
12
0
0
Visit site
harveymt said:
The_Lhc said:
You've never been to a hi-fi shop then? You can do that now. Buying hi-fi isn't like buying a book (as much as I like books and will always buy from a bookshop rather than online if possible).

I've been in plenty of hi-fi shops and the service I've recieved in most of them is laughable.

I realise shops provide the above facility but there are plenty of threads on here about shops that don't have items in stock to demo. My point was that if manufacturers directly provided a demo facility either home trial or in unit somewhere they could ensure all their range was present. Several manufacturers clubbing together would lower costs. If people could demo through the manufacturers this might alleviate some of the pressure of returns on shops. I am not clued in on the ins and outs of hi-fi retail but it would seem a new approach is needed to selling hi-fi rather than whinging about the Internet destroying your business.

Extending your arguement about books and how you buy them in-store to other items, how many people are like that? Most of everyone I know currently buys what they can online. In another 10, 20 years surely most people will be like that?

So you suggest a company, buys all the items they could stock, for display, available to demo?

Or manufacturers go direct to the customer, why would they want to go into business with their competitors for the sake of a warehouse full of stock to demo?

:clap:
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts