The Good, The Bad & The Ugly (Online Sales)

[paradiziac]

For those retailers who have a problem with the DSR--they can factor this cost into the prices they offer online or choose not to sell online at all!

Same thing If you factor it into your prices you won't be cheap enough to sell anything! So you have to take the risk if you want to sell online.

If there's widespread consumer abuse of DSR, we'll all end up back at High street shops because they're cheaper and offer a wider range of items

There is widespread abuse of DSR, always has been. Same with shops with really easy-going return policies, people have always taken advantage. Comes with the territory to an extent, but at least in a shop you can try to work out if someone is genuine, you can usually see from the look on someone's face if they're at it! With DSR it's faceless, and too easy. But dodgy retailers who flout the rules have been about for just as long as dodgy customers.

Sure, no doubt there are rogue buyers as well as sellers. I think, and hope, it's a minority on both sides.

My point was simply that if dodgy customers returning tons of stuff under DSR was really hitting the profits of online retailers, online prices in general would not be so low.

The real issue seems to be the higher overheads of bricks 'n mortar shops who are drawn into online selling v larger online-only businesses, garage operations or direct selling.

So, asked another way, how many people on here would be willing to pay a dealer for hi-fi advice in the High street with a free cuppa (making a nice day out), bearing in mind that good advice can save a lot of time/money in the long term?

 

[Ambrose]

Rag to a bull post but interesting topic.

Some valid points from each side. I understand value for money, especially as I have a family to support now and money is tighter.

For me I would feel uncomfortabe to demo in a shop whilst planning to buy online. Also fact is when buying hifi the advice and support from a good dealer is really important and part of the fun after all with the interaction. It's a hobby isn't it?

Is this relevant for all goods?

Just ordered Timble dryer online from less well known supplier who have taken money but no delivery. Even though not a product requiring after sales support, it doesn't always pay to go for cheapest! However i do buy quite a bit online, provided the item doesn't require testing / seeing before buying.

Exception such as buying cables on 30day trial etc.

For me, end of day, a local dealer (50 miles round trip), and in preference to one of WHF recommended dealers (not one posting here btw) has provided exceptional service,humour and been very accomodating in demo time and home loan and after changing mind several times I have a system which really works well for me and means I have best value for money as no requirement to change / swap. Even got to hear reference system with Kudos Titan speakers....bonus!!!

Maybe i'm old fashioned, but I do like customer service, which is sadly disappearing in the ever competitive (and greedy)world we live.

Ambrose

 

[Anonymous]

Rag to a bull post but interesting topic.

Some valid points from each side. I understand value for money, especially as I have a family to support now and money is tighter.

For me I would feel uncomfortabe to demo in a shop whilst planning to buy online. Also fact is when buying hifi the advice and support from a good dealer is really important and part of the fun after all with the interaction. It's a hobby isn't it?

Is this relevant for all goods?

Just ordered Timble dryer online from less well known supplier who have taken money but no delivery. Even though not a product requiring after sales support, it doesn't always pay to go for cheapest! However i do buy quite a bit online, provided the item doesn't require testing / seeing before buying.

Exception such as buying cables on 30day trial etc.

For me, end of day, a local dealer (50 miles round trip), and in preference to one of WHF recommended dealers (not one posting here btw) has provided exceptional service,humour and been very accomodating in demo time and home loan and after changing mind several times I have a system which really works well for me and means I have best value for money as no requirement to change / swap. Even got to hear reference system with Kudos Titan speakers....bonus!!!

Maybe i'm old fashioned, but I do like customer service, which is sadly disappearing in the ever competitive (and greedy)world we live.

Ambrose Customer service,just look at all the BL--dy self service checkouts at the supermarkets making YOU work to boost their profits and deprive sombody of a job. Any way as said before if im spending a large amount of cash on a long term investment i'm dam sure i would want too see and hear various units compared with each other and be satisfied with my choice. If it was'nt for f, harvey stocking a large selection of goods for me to demo, choosing my musical enjoyment would be rather difficult. { and no there has'nt been any exchange of brown envelopes } Just good service.

 

[Anonymous]

Rag to a bull post but interesting topic.

Some valid points from each side. I understand value for money, especially as I have a family to support now and money is tighter.

For me I would feel uncomfortabe to demo in a shop whilst planning to buy online. Also fact is when buying hifi the advice and support from a good dealer is really important and part of the fun after all with the interaction. It's a hobby isn't it?

Is this relevant for all goods?

Just ordered Timble dryer online from less well known supplier who have taken money but no delivery. Even though not a product requiring after sales support, it doesn't always pay to go for cheapest! However i do buy quite a bit online, provided the item doesn't require testing / seeing before buying.

Exception such as buying cables on 30day trial etc.

For me, end of day, a local dealer (50 miles round trip), and in preference to one of WHF recommended dealers (not one posting here btw) has provided exceptional service,humour and been very accomodating in demo time and home loan and after changing mind several times I have a system which really works well for me and means I have best value for money as no requirement to change / swap. Even got to hear reference system with Kudos Titan speakers....bonus!!!

Maybe i'm old fashioned, but I do like customer service, which is sadly disappearing in the ever competitive (and greedy)world we live.

Ambrose Customer service,just look at all the BL--dy self service checkouts at the supermarkets making YOU work to boost their profits and deprive sombody of a job. Any way as said before if im spending a large amount of cash on a long term investment i'm dam sure i would want too see and hear various units compared with each other and be satisfied with my choice. If it was'nt for f, harvey stocking a large selection of goods for me to demo, choosing my musical enjoyment would be rather difficult. { and no there has'nt been any exchange of brown envelopes } Just good service.

 

[Lee H]

An interesting take on it is the travel agency that Mrs H works in. Like many places, the web is cheaper than the shop. If you book online, you have to manage your own booking online, make any amendments yourself, chase anything you're missing yourself etc. Book in the store and they'll do that for you.

They will match the web price, but charge you a web match fee. For this fee, they'll then manage your booking for you rather than you having to do it all. It's a good compromise between webprice and personal service.

 

[Excitable Boy]

Will Mrs H take the holiday back if it's no good ??

 

[Lee H]

Only within 7 days

 

[Clare Newsome]

*Makes note to book mega-luxury 5-day break via Mrs H's business*

 

[Ambrose]

Indeed, those self service tills annoy me and half the time they don't work requiring a memeber of staff.

Couldn't believe when I was in WHS the other week they were in there too!

I guess I am saying that (like you) I'd rather have good (customer) service for something like expensive new Hifi system which is often difficult to get right first time.

To pay extra for this from a decent dealer is well spent for me.

Nuff said

 

[Helmut80]

I love self-checkout. Minimising human contact. Fantastic stuff.

 

[BenLaw]

I love self-checkout. Minimising human contact. Fantastic stuff.

Lol, me too!

 

[Al ears]

I love self-checkout. Minimising human contact. Fantastic stuff.

+1
Aye. Man versus machine like! And without the idle checkout chit-chat!

 

[amcluesent]

Ebay is now the place to 'rent' hi-fi while you check it out. Apart from DSR rules on BuyItNow items, you can try stuff for 45 days then just raise a SNAD and send it back for a refund.

Even if you like the item, you can make some spurious claim and wheedle for a partial refund.

Ebay always sides with the buyer.

 

[John Duncan]

Which is soooo much nicer than stiffing a retailer, right?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Deceit is the new consumerism.

 

[moon]

Ebay is now the place to 'rent' hi-fi while you check it out. Apart from DSR rules on BuyItNow items, you can try stuff for 45 days then just raise a SNAD and send it back for a refund.

Even if you like the item, you can make some spurious claim and wheedle for a partial refund.

Ebay always sides with the buyer.

Do you actually do this?

 

[Crocodile]

I read AMC's post as the result of being on the receiving end of such behaviour rather than actually advocating it.

 

[John Duncan]

I read AMC's post as the result of being on the receiving end of such behaviour rather than actually advocating it.

Let's hope so, before the mob starts :-D

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Ebay is now the place to 'rent' hi-fi while you check it out. Apart from DSR rules on BuyItNow items, you can try stuff for 45 days then just raise a SNAD and send it back for a refund.

Even if you like the item, you can make some spurious claim and wheedle for a partial refund.

Ebay always sides with the buyer.

Do you actually do this?

Many many people do. A good one is buying a bit of equipment, claiming it doesn't work and then sending back a different unit that actually is faulty. We have been keeping serial numbers for years now to try and stop this underhand and more than likely criminal behaviour.

 

[Crocodile]

Let's hope so, before the mob starts :-D

Funny you should post that John as I've had a similar image in my head for a couple of days now...

:rofl:

 

[SteveR750]

Ebay is now the place to 'rent' hi-fi while you check it out. Apart from DSR rules on BuyItNow items, you can try stuff for 45 days then just raise a SNAD and send it back for a refund.

Even if you like the item, you can make some spurious claim and wheedle for a partial refund.

Ebay always sides with the buyer.

The world really needs sugestions like this. I hope I never acidentally sell anything to you

 

[PEAYEL]

I have had a similar experience as Crocodile, and can agree. but from a slightly diffrerent perspective. I am disabled and have welcomed internet retailing wholheartedly. I see it as such, if you use online as your shop window, then you must abide by the rules. If you don't want this shop window then don't advertise online. simple. Me, as soon as retailers don't reply (or mess me around) I take my business elsewhere, I will also tell people when I am not happy and when I am happy with a company. EG I like my food hot, i am paying for hot food, hence when my fastfood burger and fries is not hot, I take it back and ask for another, similar with restaurant meals. For Roth AV, I am willing to support a local shop based HiFi retailer with my custom, for reasons as per moon, but (and this my beef) many have not adapted their listening environments for easy access, you will be surprised at how many steps and doors that I have had to try and negotiate over the years. Hence I use the internet as a shop window and as crocodile, I alsways specify that I want to try X out, so if they have a demo model, then I will be happy to borrow this (paying postage/credit card of course).

However, I find myself agreeing that retailing is changing and that companies have to adapt to this new shop window. I want to hear the different products with my set up, say DAC's, that WHFSV may have supertested, but nobody local to me is stocking them, indeed many only have shop retailing in the main cities, simply too far to travel, when considering the cost of petrol these days. Now many HiFi/DAC retailers do not allow selling online (although their products are advertised) ..... I feel that as a disabled customer they may be not be allowing me equal access because of this !!!!!! They need to adapt OR do they simply not need my £££££s.

Finally, DSR is put there for a reason, as long as everybody plays by the rules, as is the princilpe, buyer beware. I find that lots of questions by email, before you enter into the transaction usuallly does the trick, whether it is Hifi dealer extrordinaire or ebay seller., cos once you have it in written communication it is usually clear and binding.

Many retailers should take a leaf out of the Sonos customer service book though (IMO), as it is simply an excellent customer experience.

 

[amcluesent]

:shame: I'm not a business seller, so DSR in BINs doesn't apply.

But I have been hit with the 'partial refund' scam after item received by buyer who 'found' a scratch on the top of CD player.

 

[SteveR750]

:shame: I'm not a business seller, so DSR in BINs doesn't apply.

But I have been hit with the 'partial refund' scam after item received by buyer who 'found' a scratch on the top of CD player.

thus its better for both seller and buyer to enter a sold as seen literally sale outside of Ebay. So we are sadly back to square one because they Ebay are so damn greedy, and because a few silly people get taken for a ride, and the media makes a story out if it, so Ebay has to tighten stuff up.

 

[Helmut80]

:shame: I'm not a business seller, so DSR in BINs doesn't apply.

But I have been hit with the 'partial refund' scam after item received by buyer who 'found' a scratch on the top of CD player.

thus its better for both seller and buyer to enter a sold as seen literally sale outside of Ebay. So we are sadly back to square one because they Ebay are so damn greedy, and because a few silly people get taken for a ride, and the media makes a story out if it, so Ebay has to tighten stuff up.

But this is in effect what's increasingly been happening, mostly due to ebay becoming more greedy. Have you noticed how many things are withdrawn after a while? I reckon people use ebay to advertise and then take it to email.