Popped in to one of the shops in Edinburgh today, thought I'd check out the amps on offer there and see what was on the shelves. Quick scout round, Arcam A18 at £600, Rotel 1520 at £695...Naim and Bryston at various points upwards, so, given my max budget is £699, looks like we have two to think about. Went up to the assistant, explained what I was after and my budget, mentioning, critically that I'd like to spend no more than £699, but if I could spend less, this would be fine. I also need an amp that balances out the detail and brighter leaning Missions and Marantz CDP. So, I asked about the Rotel, bearing in mind a recommendation I had elsewhere on here. The guy reckons no, too bright and a bit lean. Not good. Nice looking amp. They had the Rotel 05SE as well, but he didn't mention that. He reckoned the Arcam at £600 would do. Everything else was over the budget. I left, but reckoned I'd book a session to try the Arcam out, I can take the CDP in and they've some nice smaller floorstanders I can use in place of the 752s (some smaller Naims I noticed and a few others). Got back home and thought I'd read up on the Audiolab 8000 series. Lo and behold, the self-same shop has the 8000S for £349! This - IMO - is a ballpark amp, I didn't see it in the shop but perhaps I'm expecting too much that this might get a passing mention. But part of me does wonder, that if one goes into a shop, mentions a budget, the staff (on several occasions over the years now) do naturally gravitate towards the top of the scale. I know they're sales guys, but by the same token I want best advice wholesale, not best advice for the top end of my budget only. I'm maybe being unfair - the guy was very good, didn't push at all and listened. He could've easily plugged the Naim which was only £100 more at £795 (and there are plenty of shops who'd have done just that), so credit where credit is due.
I did some listening myself on Saturday - I demo'd three amps at Martin's Hifi in Norwich - Rotel 1520, Arcam A28 and, finally, as I was tempted , the Cyrus 6XP.
I totally blew my budget and went for the Cyrus! So much more sound from it during the demo.
I got a good deal from Martins and this, together with the top notch service, means I thoroughly recommend them.
There was a negative aspect ..... unfortunately, they did not have a black one in stock but will order one for me tomorrow - roll on Wednesday / Thursday!!!
I totally blew my budget and went for the Cyrus! So much more sound from it during the demo.
I got a good deal from Martins and this, together with the top notch service, means I thoroughly recommend them.
There was a negative aspect ..... unfortunately, they did not have a black one in stock but will order one for me tomorrow - roll on Wednesday / Thursday!!!
AEJim
Well-known member
All shops and staff are different - I've had some bad and good experiences from my local chain retailer in the past too. On one hand they let me borrow a Naim system AND a Meridian system over the course of a weekend, back when I was about 20 years old to boot (didn't even want a deposit or card number!!). This as well as recommending cheaper products than I was looking for on two occasions. Unfortunately the manager moved on and when I went in some time later to try an upgrade to a component I was nearly sneered at for wearing jeans and a t-shirt rather than a business suit!
The very best shops will work, as this store did initially, on a long-term customer retention basis - especially in this web-based sales World we now live in. Poorer stores and staff will try to milk you of every penny at every opportunity. At the end of the day it's worth travelling and trying the service out on this high cost hobby we have.
When you find somewhere you can trust they will take the time to get to know you and your tastes too it will be worth it. I've often gone in (in the past) with a copy of the latest mag, wanting to try the 5 star products - only to find the dealer who knew me ended up, after letting me listen to those products, coming out with his own little "something you might prefer" that ended up becoming part of my system! I'm a little old and jaded to be doing all that now and I am fortunate enough to get plenty of opportunities to try gear along the way so have a lot less requirement for demo's, thankfully!
The very best shops will work, as this store did initially, on a long-term customer retention basis - especially in this web-based sales World we now live in. Poorer stores and staff will try to milk you of every penny at every opportunity. At the end of the day it's worth travelling and trying the service out on this high cost hobby we have.
When you find somewhere you can trust they will take the time to get to know you and your tastes too it will be worth it. I've often gone in (in the past) with a copy of the latest mag, wanting to try the 5 star products - only to find the dealer who knew me ended up, after letting me listen to those products, coming out with his own little "something you might prefer" that ended up becoming part of my system! I'm a little old and jaded to be doing all that now and I am fortunate enough to get plenty of opportunities to try gear along the way so have a lot less requirement for demo's, thankfully!
chebby
Well-known member
Record Spot. If this is HiFi Corner you are on about then please do me a favour and ask to listen to these for a few minutes on the end of that Audiolab. (Not on the end of anything 'fancy'.)
I know you can't afford them (I can't either right now) but I am sure if you are buying an amp from them they will indulge you
Thanks.
(Just want someone to test the manufacturer's claim that their speakers work well on the end of any competent amp rather than needing anything really 'high-end' to drive them.)
I know you can't afford them (I can't either right now) but I am sure if you are buying an amp from them they will indulge you
Thanks.
(Just want someone to test the manufacturer's claim that their speakers work well on the end of any competent amp rather than needing anything really 'high-end' to drive them.)
Don't be afraid to bargain, RS. It's amazing how prices drop is you push hard.
Salespeople across the board will always go for the top of the budget you mention. They want to maximise their profit. Always mention a figure well below your actual budget - also gives you bargaining room if you're seriously interested in something.
Salespeople across the board will always go for the top of the budget you mention. They want to maximise their profit. Always mention a figure well below your actual budget - also gives you bargaining room if you're seriously interested in something.
RS, I strongly advise listening to anything they have at that price, including the Rotels. I've often disagreed with the views of "my dealers" when it comes to components and you need to make your own judgement. The Rotels aren't the warmest sounding amps but their overall tonal balance might suit your Sansui tastes quite well. Maybe not. A little zing on top is fine provided the mids aren't hard or shouty, something Rotels excel at balancing.
EDIT Listen to the Harbeths at your peril. If you're not even close to affording them you may go home knowing what you're missing
Of course, the risk might pay off as you might think they're over hyped and not worth the cash!
EDIT Listen to the Harbeths at your peril. If you're not even close to affording them you may go home knowing what you're missing
igglebert: EDIT Listen to the Harbeths at your peril. If you're not even close to affording them you may go home knowing what you're missing
Of course, the risk might pay off as you might think they're over hyped and not worth the cash!
Yup, that's what scares me about this hi-fi lark: people talk about the amazing things they hear out of £1000+ components and I keep wondering what I am missing. But then I take a step back and wonder whether I really want to hear what I am missing because realistically I am unlikely to ever be in a position to buy such a system. Curiosity is a dangerous thing - let it out on a very short leash.
Chebby, you're a bad person - do your own experimenting! Don't risk someone else's soul in your search for hi-fi perfection!
Yup, that's what scares me about this hi-fi lark: people talk about the amazing things they hear out of £1000+ components and I keep wondering what I am missing. But then I take a step back and wonder whether I really want to hear what I am missing because realistically I am unlikely to ever be in a position to buy such a system. Curiosity is a dangerous thing - let it out on a very short leash.
Chebby, you're a bad person - do your own experimenting! Don't risk someone else's soul in your search for hi-fi perfection!
LOL @ Chebby - mate, the city's looking great right now, early summer, long light nights...nice train journey up and ten minutes walk from Waverley Station...!
I'll book a dem sometime in the next couple of weeks and check both amps out. The smart money however, might be to go for an alternative solution in the Q Acoustics 2050s and Audiolab 8000s for example - it just addresses the problem in a slightly different way...now need to find who has the Qs...
I'll book a dem sometime in the next couple of weeks and check both amps out. The smart money however, might be to go for an alternative solution in the Q Acoustics 2050s and Audiolab 8000s for example - it just addresses the problem in a slightly different way...now need to find who has the Qs...
the record spot:the city's looking great right now, early summer, long light nights...nice train journey up and ten minutes walk from Waverley Station...!
Lucky so-and-so!
Lucky so-and-so!
matthewpiano
Well-known member
I can see the Audiolab being a very strong contender RS. Its a very fine amp and, in my opinion, it is a good step-up from the NAD C326BEE/Marantz PM6003 level. The sort of prices for which it is available only serve to emphasise what a bargain it is.
In terms of the sales approach I think it is very difficult to strike the right balance. In the vast majority of retailers in our industry there is pressure on the sales person to maximise opportunities and profit margin for the business and this can often distort an individual's desire to give helpful and unbiased advice.
I completely agree with Igglebert. You should listen to all the options including the Rotel amps, and judge with your own eyes (EDIT: preferably use you EARS more!). I think you know exactly what you are looking for in terms of the overall sound, so you should take every opportunity to let YOUR ears decide.
In terms of the sales approach I think it is very difficult to strike the right balance. In the vast majority of retailers in our industry there is pressure on the sales person to maximise opportunities and profit margin for the business and this can often distort an individual's desire to give helpful and unbiased advice.
I completely agree with Igglebert. You should listen to all the options including the Rotel amps, and judge with your own eyes (EDIT: preferably use you EARS more!). I think you know exactly what you are looking for in terms of the overall sound, so you should take every opportunity to let YOUR ears decide.
By coincidence, went into the other Hi Fi Corner in town today to see what they had in stock (they tend to stock a different selection of kit, plus higher end Quad amps, and Chebby's Harbeths...) and the guy there recommended the Rotel amp! Said it was forward sounding, but had the balance in the mids and bottom end to keep things even.
Interesting, interesting...!
Interesting, interesting...!
matthewpiano
Well-known member
I know! Makes getting to know a dealer who's in tune with what you like and more importantly, how you like to hear it!
the record spot:By coincidence, went into the other Hi Fi Corner in town today to see what they had in stock (they tend to stock a different selection of kit, plus higher end Quad amps, and Chebby's Harbeths...) and the guy there recommended the Rotel amp! Said it was forward sounding, but had the balance in the mids and bottom end to keep things even.
Interesting, interesting...!
Told you, keep an open ear...
Interesting, interesting...!
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
I've learned over the years that even if you know how two components sound individually, putting them together can produce an end result entirely different to what you'd expect. I'd certainly try the Rotels as they're excellent value for money and tend to provide more grip and current than most alternatives, and give a nice, lively sound.
Whenever a prospective customer gives a budget limit, you'll usually find a recommendation of a product at or very near to that price point is because it is the better up to that price point. I will agree that sometimes a cheaper product will work better in a specific system, and I'm sure stores that make these recommendations purely based on price can easily be weeded out among the genuine ones who are interested in building customer relationships, as already mentioned.
Whenever a prospective customer gives a budget limit, you'll usually find a recommendation of a product at or very near to that price point is because it is the better up to that price point. I will agree that sometimes a cheaper product will work better in a specific system, and I'm sure stores that make these recommendations purely based on price can easily be weeded out among the genuine ones who are interested in building customer relationships, as already mentioned.
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