System weakpoint Cyrus, Naim & Spendor

[robreid]

I recently bought the Naim V1 Dac, to go with the rest of my system, Cyrus Stream X2, Naim NAP155xs and Spendor A5.

it replaced a cyrus dac XP, and the NAP 155xs had replaced a Cyrus X Power. I think the sound is ok and have noticed a small improvement from the cyrus components but I'm wondering how good the 155xs and a5 are as a match? I've considered looking for a second hand NAP200 or a6 but its a relatively small room so volume isn't a big issue.

I expected better sound for the money spent and although room acoustics are probably the biggest factor I wondered if there is one obvious component that may be not quite up to scratch?

Cheers rob

 

[matthewpiano]

What particular aspects of the sound are you disappointed with? What sort of music do you most enjoy listening to?

 

[robreid]

Instrument/vocal separation and the soundstage is the main thing I'm not that happy with. THE SOund is nice but a little dull.

The bass varies massively if you move your head front to back but I think this is room acoustics and will try something on the rear wall to absorb the sound.

my music is varied but rock is the main genre I enjoy.

 

[matthewpiano]

Sounds like it is definitely worth doing some experimentation with the room acoustics and speaker positioning. as a first step.

I do wonder whether the amp/speaker match is the best. I love Spendor 'speakers, and I don't think they are a weak point at all, but I'm not sure I'd necessarily put them with Naim. Did you feel the soundstaging was better when you had Cyrus amplification?

Perhaps it might be worth exploring whether alternative speakers would give you more of what you want, but I think you need a dealer who will help you to try some options out in your home. If that doesn't work, perhaps a move away from Naim to get the best out of the Spendors....

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm kind of in agreement with MP.

Though I have never heard them together, a Cyrus pre into a Naim power amp, may not make natural bedfellows (I take it that's what you're doing). IMO. you need to go Naim or Cyrus for your pre / power.

Are you sure the Naim Dac gives an improvement over the Cyrus streamer?

The Spendors are great, but there are better for rockin' out.

FWIW. I think you have to simplify your system, and if you are using a Cyrus Streamer / Pre, you should stick with a Cyrus Power amp....which will, I suspect work better with the Spendors.

Sorry if that throws a spanner in the works.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The A5s are very smooth - I suspect the smoother sounding Naim has taken away that 'edge' that your system had when you had the Cyrus components.

Did you audition the changes you made to the system before purchasing?

 

[robreid]

Thanks for the replies,

I've had Cyrus electronics for 15 years but moved to Norway a couple of years ago (where there is no cyrus dealer). trying to upgrade the cyrus components was too difficult so i've now switched to Naim apart from the streamer

does anyone know a good match for Naim amplification?

i do think the biggest problem is the room so I will work on that first I guess.

 

[MakkaPakka]

Post some pictures of the room but, as a general rule, bass trapping in the corners and absorption at first reflection points.

 

[robreid]

Hi David, no I bought the 155xs second hand after selling my xpower and not managing to get a pair of mono x's. I think that May be the issue that all the naim equipment is smoother than what I am used to.

 

[robreid]

Here's the room, I've tried various speaker positions but it's somewhat limited, the only soft furnishing is the rug

http://s30.postimg.org/hj2pseaz5/image.jpg

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks for the replies,

I've had Cyrus electronics for 15 years but moved to Norway a couple of years ago (where there is no cyrus dealer). trying to upgrade the cyrus components was too difficult so i've now switched to Naim apart from the streamer

does anyone know a good match for Naim amplification?

i do think the biggest problem is the room so I will work on that first I guess.

Neat

Kudos

Kef R Series

 

[robreid]

Thanks, I'll have a look who sells them here

 

[CnoEvil]

Let us know how you get on......if possible, home dems are the way to go.

 

[MakkaPakka]

Get your duvet and pillows and stuff them behind the speakers in the corners. See how much difference that makes.

Your speakers are very close to the side walls so milliseconds after the direct sound from the speakers hits your ears you will get the sound from the wall hitting them. This messes up your soundstage/imaging. Again try putting something soft in those positions and listen for the difference.

These are well worth a look - I put a pair behind my speakers in a similar sized room and was amazed at the difference they made.

http://gikacoustics.co.uk/product/gik-acoustics-244-bass-trap-flexrange-technology/

 

[stevebrock]

I heard some Kudos C30 the other day, however amplifaction was an Elicit R - not to disimmilar from Nait XS2, source was Naim CDX - very very nice

 

[manicm]

Are you sure the Naim Dac gives an improvement over the Cyrus streamer?

The Cyrus Stream X does not have a built-in DAC.

 

[CnoEvil]

Are you sure the Naim Dac gives an improvement over the Cyrus streamer?

The Cyrus Stream X does not have a built-in DAC.

Thank you, it explains a lot.....it's hard to keep track at times. :doh:

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm kind of in agreement with MP.

Though I have never heard them together, a Cyrus pre into a Naim power amp, may not make natural bedfellows (I take it that's what you're doing). IMO. you need to go Naim or Cyrus for your pre / power.

Are you sure the Naim Dac gives an improvement over the Cyrus streamer?

The Spendors are great, but there are better for rockin' out.

FWIW. I think you have to simplify your system, and if you are using a Cyrus Streamer / Pre, you should stick with a Cyrus Power amp....which will, I suspect work better with the Spendors.

Sorry if that throws a spanner in the works.

@Robreid

Ignore all this, as I have grabbed the wrong end of the stick. As I now understand it, the Cyrus is acting like a "streaming transport" for the Naim Dac, which in turn is controlling the volume of the Naim power.....this makes much more sense.

The speaker choices I gave still hold good though, if you want a more exciting sound.

 

[robreid]

I will try that with some pillows, if that improves the sound I will be really pleased no to change the speakers.

I would like to put curtains along the rear wall but as there is no Window I think I will struggle to convince the wife.

Those acoustic plates look interesting, I need to find someone that sells something similar in Norway.

 

[rdmaidment]

I use Spendor A5's with Naim amplification very successsfully. Naim and Spendor do go well together.

Mine are placed 7" from the back wall with virtually no toe-in. Room size is approx 18" X 12 firing down the length. Occasionally they do overcook the bass and become a bit monotone but I'm being critical here. They are very easy to listen to, with no fatigue, this can make them sound a little dull in comparison to some other speakers.

The speakers have responded well to improvements to the system. I now use these with a Naim NDX, NAC-282/HicapDR/NAP-200 and they make wonderful music. They worked well with a 202/200 if that helps, they aren't the easiest speakers to drive so the extra headroom of the 200 would help even at low volumes. The more I improved the source (your DAC is ideal) and the pre the better they became.

They're not really heavy rockers, but work really well with accoustic music, Jazz, Orchestral and soft pop.

Richard

 

[MakkaPakka]

Some people hang rugs on the wall which is worth doing if you can find a nice one - will work even better if you can have a bit of an air gap behind.

Lots of people make their own acoustic panels. It is pretty time consuming but easy and fairly cheap. Also means you can get exact sizes you need. Acoustic panels are just semi-rigid insulation like you put in your loft or in walls so easy to get hold of.

You don't need to go overboard and cover all your walls and ceiling - just try and tame the area around the speakers so that you're hearing more of them and less of what's bouncing off the walls. Remember that bass radiates out in all directions and builds up in the corners - kill some of that and it really tidies up the sound.

 

[robreid]

Interesting, i've moved the speakers to be about 60cm (previously 30) from the rear wall, 50cm from the side (previously 30, now I can't physically go any further away).

I put a blanket over the back of the TV and two in the corners behind the speakers, the sound is transformed. The booming bass has gone and the imaging and soundstage is much improved.

look like I need to do some more permanent work on the room acoustics now! Thanks for the suggestions

 

[CnoEvil]

Sounds like a good result to me (and to you, obviously). :cheer:

 

[MakkaPakka]

Good stuff, I am happy to have helped set you off on the righteous path of hi-fi fulfilment where others tried to set you on the path of box-swapping disappointment and financial peril. :wave:

A readof the articles on the GIK and realtraps websites are recommended.