Question Suggestions for foundational parts of a longer term vinyl setup

[Fandango Andy]

I've done a bit of furniture shuffling and will clean up the speaker stands (they were in a shed for about a decade), get the speakers down from the loft and put things in general place tomorrow.

I'm not sure wall mounting is a great option here as there's no available "either side" of that chimney breast; the left-side is inaccessible as it's a kitchen cupboard. Just moving the turntable into the kitchen has shown that it just works in terms of how "right" it looks in that space and how natural it is to sit on the sofa and listen to it, or to prep and cook at the hob while listening to it. It's more comfortable in the kitchen than that middle room so it ticks a few boxes in terms of how we live, if not in terms of the best place to listen to it.

I think once the speakers are raised on their stands it'll resolve some of the general space / positioning issues, so if nothing else, standing and listening to it from the other side of the kitchen could actually be rather acceptable.

sounds like a plan! good luck

 

[RTHerringbone]

Why put off until tomorrow what you can do today? I got a bit excited and have set things up roughly where they'll end up. It fits and I added a second photo to show that the right speaker isn't as close to the island as it looks on the wider shot. Let's see how this goes.

I'll crack on and get an amp ordered as the priority just so we can see how things sound, before we commit to the turntable upgrade.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Oh and another silly question. Getting the speakers out reminded me that they have bi-wire terminals and I therefore have decent Chord cables with 4 banana plugs at one end and 2 at the other.

Was bi-wiring ever actually proven to be worthwhile? I'm assuming that whatever amp I get, I'll still want to use these existing cables as from memory they weren't cheap.

 

[Revolutions]

Oh and another silly question. Getting the speakers out reminded me that they have bi-wire terminals and I therefore have decent Chord cables with 4 banana plugs at one end and 2 at the other.

Was bi-wiring ever actually proven to be worthwhile? I'm assuming that whatever amp I get, I'll still want to use these existing cables as from memory they weren't cheap.

Don’t worry about bi-wiring. No benefit whatsoever.

Looking good, btw 🎵

 

[daytona600]

Was bi-wiring ever actually proven to be worthwhile?
Yes for makers of speaker cables

 

[Fandango Andy]

Oh and another silly question. Getting the speakers out reminded me that they have bi-wire terminals and I therefore have decent Chord cables with 4 banana plugs at one end and 2 at the other.

Was bi-wiring ever actually proven to be worthwhile? I'm assuming that whatever amp I get, I'll still want to use these existing cables as from memory they weren't cheap.

if you have the cables and they are set up for bi-wiring it won't do any harm, otherwise don't bother.

check the cables are in decent condition, copper can oxidise especially if left in damp conditions.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Why put off until tomorrow what you can do today? I got a bit excited and have set things up roughly where they'll end up. It fits and I added a second photo to show that the right speaker isn't as close to the island as it looks on the wider shot. Let's see how this goes.

I'll crack on and get an amp ordered as the priority just so we can see how things sound, before we commit to the turntable upgrade.

That escalated quickly. I see a trip to a hifi store in your future!

 

[RTHerringbone]

Another day, another question (or two).

1. The supermarket turntable is called a Silvercrest SUP128 A1. It currently has a RCA to 3.5mm cable to connect to the Roberts CD/Radio and reading the manual it clearly states "don't connect this to an amp phono stage", which implies that the preamp in the turntable can't be switched off. I'm likely to get the recommended Marantz PM6007 amp which has no line-in. Am I right in assuming that if I use a 2-Male to 2-Male RCA cable and connect it to any Audio In RCAs apart from the Phono on the amp, that it will be OK?

It's just going to be temporary. As soon as we're happy that the speakers have survived their stay in the loft and that the amp is working, I'll be replacing that turntable FAST.

2. As an extension of that - if at some point I look to integrate some sort of streaming hardware into the setup and choose to connect that via an Analogue rather than Digital input, presumably I can shove it into any of the Audio In slots on the amp (currently labelled CD, Tuner, Recorder and Network) apart from the Phono?

 

[Revolutions]

Yes & yes

 

[RTHerringbone]

Purchase #1 inbound.

I've decided to stop procrastinating by going with the Rega Planar 1 for the turntable. Sure, there are better options that I can afford and different cartridges I could get but frankly, my ears won't notice and the upgrade from what we have to what we're getting should be significant as it is. The local record shop does stock Rega kit, so I may accidentally stroll over this afternoon.

My next decision will be to look into what streaming solution best fits this setup. All I want is to be able to stream from Spotify into the new amp and the RX1s. Any recommendations gladly received. I've seen WiiM mentioned a lot with my initial investigations - any good?

 

[Fandango Andy]

Purchase #1 inbound.

I've decided to stop procrastinating by going with the Rega Planar 1 for the turntable. Sure, there are better options that I can afford and different cartridges I could get but frankly, my ears won't notice and the upgrade from what we have to what we're getting should be significant as it is. The local record shop does stock Rega kit, so I may accidentally stroll over this afternoon.

My next decision will be to look into what streaming solution best fits this setup. All I want is to be able to stream from Spotify into the new amp and the RX1s. Any recommendations gladly received. I've seen WiiM mentioned a lot with my initial investigations - any good?

Good choice with the amp. Good luck with your shopping trip.

Realistically you aren't going to go wrong with any Rega or Pro-Ject turntable, just pick one you like the look of and is the right price. If you spend a little more you can justify it to yourself by saying you are futureproofing your setup. if you go budget, anything from those too brands make good money second hand, you can always sell it on (keep the box).

Streaming is easy in your position. WiiM Mini, £89. there are more expensive options in their line-up, but you don't any of the features. The DAC in the mini isn't great, but you have chosen an amp with a good DAC, just bypass the one in the streamer by using the digital optical audio/Toslink Cable (supplied with the Mini).

 

[RTHerringbone]

The shopping trip qualifies as a success. Picked up a Planar 1 in Black Matt for £299, which is the going rate.

It's an awful setup in the shop to audition kit as it's literally just a corner of a bustling record shop, but still I got to hear it in action through a Rega Brio and an unidentifiable pair of bookshelf speakers which looked like they'd seen some action over the years. Ignoring these set-up issues, the upbeat Latin stuff that was put on instantly sounded *really* good and soon drew a small crowd over into the corner.

At a moderately high volume this sounded clear, fun and full of vibrancy. I'll never be able to separate an amp from a speaker from a turntable in terms of the component parts' influence on the overall sound, but this little demo ticked boxes for me. Very keen to test this out in the comfort of a home environment with my own kit and my own music. It's quite exciting to be honest!

The plan is to spend a bit of time getting this turntable setup properly tomorrow evening and then I'll pace about waiting for the amp to arrive on Monday.

Cheers for the WiiM Mini tip @Fandango Andy , I'll take a look.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Splurge complete

I've read and watched a bunch of reviews and see no negatives for how I'll use it. From now on (until the upgrade bug bites), the spend should only be on new records.....

 

[RTHerringbone]

Actually.....maybe one more investment.

I'm looking for some wired, closed-back headphones for around £100 to complete the package (for now). The What Hi-Fi "Best Buy" list has Rode NTH-100 at the top and Austrian Audio Hi-X15 close behind. I can't audition these and a scan through some reviews show that both have negative reports about build quality, but those with poor experiences are always the ones who shout the loudest. Both equally have a lot of satisfied customers.

I know there's a sub-forum for headphones but thought I'd ask here for completeness - any views on these (or other options)? I'll be plonked on the sofa next to the amp when using these, so minor details like cord length are an irrelevance.

To me, the Austrian Audio pair look like they should be more resilient (and I'm not heavy handed), so I'm probably leaning that way.

EDIT: It's quite funny - the internet is a wild place. Found a headphone forum which seems to be frequented by audio engineers and they pan both pairs, especially the Austrian Audios.....Fortunately I'm not an audio engineer but I may just allow their views to push me towards the Rode.

EDIT2: Just ordered some replacement ear pads for a set of Audio-Technica Headphones as a stop-gap. Bit alarming how easily the old caps come away, and how flimsy everything beneath looks! They're Audio Technica ATH-ANC7B which I acquired when my dad died and by all accounts, they're fine as noise-cancelling cans but not great otherwise.

 

[Clarkey_71]

I can't add anything to this thread that others haven't already mentioned, but just wanted to say this has been a great thread to read!!!
The forum at it's best!
HNY all!

 

[RTHerringbone]

I can't add anything to this thread that others haven't already mentioned, but just wanted to say this has been a great thread to read!!!
The forum at it's best!
HNY all!

And there's life in the old dog yet

The amp and WiiM arrive later this afternoon, so this morning I tweaked the unit the amp and turntable will live in/on, and set the turntable up in readiness for getting things up and running later. I may well make another trip to the record shop to buy a couple of extra albums to kill some time.

 

[RTHerringbone]

All set up

No issues with the amp, turntable or speakers at all. The WiiM had a wobble because it seemed to disappear from the home network after the initial setup and listen. After I closed the app and tried to use it again, no luck. A home network reboot and factory reset of the WiiM seems to have done the trick.

It has been so long since I listened to music through a Hi-Fi that I really didn't realise quite how major the compromises of convenience with streaming through smart speakers is. I mean - they're fine and they do a job, but they clip a lot of corners in doing so. Stereo sound through a Hi-Fi is quite incomparable and so I'm very pleased that I'm back on board.

As well as the below, we've listened to L.A. Woman. Now I'm introducing my wife to a bit of Mark Knopfler through the WiiM.

EDIT: And then some Jon Batiste and Hania Rani & Dobrawa Czocher. The cello on Biała Flaga sounds absolutely magnificent.

 

[Fandango Andy]

I've done a bit of furniture shuffling and will clean up the speaker stands (they were in a shed for about a decade), get the speakers down from the loft and put things in general place tomorrow.

I'm not sure wall mounting is a great option here as there's no available "either side" of that chimney breast; the left-side is inaccessible as it's a kitchen cupboard. Just moving the turntable into the kitchen has shown that it just works in terms of how "right" it looks in that space and how natural it is to sit on the sofa and listen to it, or to prep and cook at the hob while listening to it. It's more comfortable in the kitchen than that middle room so it ticks a few boxes in terms of how we live, if not in terms of the best place to listen to it.

I think once the speakers are raised on their stands it'll resolve some of the general space / positioning issues, so if nothing else, standing and listening to it from the other side of the kitchen could actually be rather acceptable.

How is the system working out for you?

 

[RTHerringbone]

How is the system working out for you?

Superb - thanks for asking!

We've just been listening to a lot of music, and that's what it's all about. Late evening listening tends to be streamed on the sofa through headphones and daytime listening through the speakers tends to be records. I got a couple of new records today (Out Of Time by R.EM. and Moon Safari by Air) that we've enjoyed.

The headphones I inherited from my dad seem pretty decent (Audio Technica ATH-ANC7B) but seem like the first easy upgrade to make. Having said that, I picked up a new set of ear pads for about a tenner and that's more or less made them "feel like new", so that upgrade doesn't need to be any time soon.

Yesterday we experimented with the digital Filter settings on the amp and couldn't really detect enough difference to choose a favourite. We also listened with and without rear speaker port bungs and decided that in general we prefer the sound without. My wife is planning to drive round to her parents in the next week or two to pick up a few more of her dad's records to bolster our collection.

And the WiiM is a revelation really. A side-by-side comparison of streamed music through any of our Sonos speakers and then through the amp and either the speakers or the headphones is frankly unfair - they're just miles apart.

 

[RTHerringbone]

And the little RX1s are lovely. They sound nice if a little bit reserved and they're jaw-droppingly pretty.

 

[RTHerringbone]

It's taken a whole fortnight and my eye keeps wandering and my mind keeps wondering.....

We're delighted with this new setup. It sounds like a huge leap from what we had before, is easy to use and we can quickly flick from vinyl to the WiiM; we're listening to music more than ever. It fits into the house without gobbling up lots of space and we've got a perfect listening spot. The problem is that it makes me wonder what an attainable best sound quality can be within a modest budget.

My wife is happy with the turntable, so what I want to understand is how to maximise my streaming quality. Options are to give Tidal a free trial to see if my failing ears can discern a source difference. Then there's the WiiM - is there actually any audible difference between that and a fully-bodied "separate" streamer?

 

[RTHerringbone]

Apologies, but here's more procrastination incoming. Possibly more suited to the Streaming sub-forum, but the overarching question remains and I don't want to clutter the place up with another thread.

Q: What are we actually paying for?

I'm guilty here of reading specifications and butchering technical understanding rather than listening to music, so this will be full of holes but bear with me.

My understanding is that Tidal (and others) offers (up to) the highest quality streamed music to consumers. I believe that if my home network is fully operational (it's FTTP and seems very robust), then my WiiM Mini has the chops to handle the Max quality Tidal source, and that the DAC in my amplifier can decode the entirety of that signal, which it receives through an optical connection from the WiiM.

So all things being equal, purely on a technical level, my system to that point is retaining all the detail that it can from the source?

Therefore, what are the tangible benefits of me replacing anything in the setup? I'll need analogies here but if we look just from a streaming perspective, why would I spend multiples of what I have spent, to "upgrade" anything - the streamer, the amp or the speakers?

I'd love to dive headlong into Hi-Fi but on my simple (and no doubt naive and incorrect) technical level, I struggle to appreciate the actual benefits. Does expensive kit "just" lend a particular sound to what is otherwise the same source?

I just can't see what I'd gain at all from changing the WiiM but do concede that there are likely some benefits to upgrading the amp and speakers, but whilst I'm just thinking in textbook rather than listening chair terms, it's hard to wrap my head round.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Apologies, but here's more procrastination incoming. Possibly more suited to the Streaming sub-forum, but the overarching question remains and I don't want to clutter the place up with another thread.

Q: What are we actually paying for?

I'm guilty here of reading specifications and butchering technical understanding rather than listening to music, so this will be full of holes but bear with me.

My understanding is that Tidal (and others) offers (up to) the highest quality streamed music to consumers. I believe that if my home network is fully operational (it's FTTP and seems very robust), then my WiiM Mini has the chops to handle the Max quality Tidal source, and that the DAC in my amplifier can decode the entirety of that signal, which it receives through an optical connection from the WiiM.

So all things being equal, purely on a technical level, my system to that point is retaining all the detail that it can from the source?

Therefore, what are the tangible benefits of me replacing anything in the setup? I'll need analogies here but if we look just from a streaming perspective, why would I spend multiples of what I have spent, to "upgrade" anything - the streamer, the amp or the speakers?

I'd love to dive headlong into Hi-Fi but on my simple (and no doubt naive and incorrect) technical level, I struggle to appreciate the actual benefits. Does expensive kit "just" lend a particular sound to what is otherwise the same source?

I just can't see what I'd gain at all from changing the WiiM but do concede that there are likely some benefits to upgrading the amp and speakers, but whilst I'm just thinking in textbook rather than listening chair terms, it's hard to wrap my head round.

At a risk of being cynical, many hifi enthusiasts are more interested in the sound than the music. Others can't tell the difference between ok and good, or between good and great, but like to have the shiny expensive toys. Yes there are some with a great ear who will appreciate the nuance, but I doubt they are the majority. When choosing a streaming service I would recommend most people consider price, catalogue, and compatibility with your streamer before sound as they all sound pretty good.

 

[Revolutions]

In theory, amplification is about trying to reduce degredation. Adding gain/volume causes a bit of an issue there.

Likewise with speakers, in that the aim is to lose nothing. But speakers also tend to impact the sound in certain ways, boosting certain frequencies so they might sound warm with more bass, or forward with more mids etc.

There is a steep dropping off point around “quality” vs cost. After that you’re paying for expensive components to reduce the risk of degradation etc.

As per @Fandango Andy’s post - most people are hearing the sound, so it’s largely about preferences. Some people want decent sounding music. Some people want the absolute most pristine sound ever invented. I guess a lot of hifi nerds are in the middle, and get sucked into upgrading piece by piece. But rarely can you a/b your whole system so never really know if over the long-term it’s really better, or just different.

For my part, my last amp & speaker purchases were near double what I’d spent before, and from a purely sound quality perspective it’s not a huge improvement. But the presentation & style of the sound is more refined. If that makes any sense at all.

One thing though; buying better cartridges makes a huge difference.