Question Suggestions for foundational parts of a longer term vinyl setup

[RTHerringbone]

Merry Christmas all! First post (and first thread), so please be gentle

Background: I'm 46 and so have primarily been buying music in the CD era. I made the questionable decision with my dad 15+ years ago to rip all my albums onto a NAS drive, preempting the streaming revolution which shortly after rendered *days* of ripping CDs rather pointless. Fast forward to now, where I'm a father of two and a household of me, my wife and two kids that consume music through Sonos products and Spotify - I'm sorry. The NAS drive is disconnected and sitting in a drawer somewhere.

A few months back, my father-in-law "gifted" us a terrible old Aldi / Lidl turntable with a few excellent old records; The Doors, Hendrix, Fleetwood Mac, The Beatles. The turntable is at best a decade-old £50 lump, currently being amplified and output through some equally old Roberts DAB / CD Player. I'm very much aware I'm not painting an audiophile picture here, but my hearing is far from exemplary and should shape your future advice.

More background: I am a gadget obsessive. My ears might not be the sharpest, but I'm a sucker for buying tech and developing new hobbies, and here's the core of the thread. Our tastes are fairly diverse - a lot of mid-90s Indie / grunge stuff, coupled with blues, jazz, neoclassical, classical, folk, rock, trip-hop. What we want to do is give ourselves an entry-level platform from which to grow our vinyl collection and listen to it in reasonable quality, but our early focus is about growing that number of records rather than the quality of the output. We've thoroughly enjoyed the experience of going back to record shops and the process of listening to vinyl. We want to build a collection of our favourite albums to give us something of a hobby to develop together.

Then, when the kids move out and we gain space and/or move house, we'll have room for a better system to appreciate our collection. So: what should we get at this early stage? We have an established Sonos network which we enjoy but are not wedded to. We have a pair of old Monitor Audio Silver RX1 bookshelf speakers in the loft. My gut says a turntable with an integrated phono stage is probably "good enough" for our initial steps on this journey, and that we can then connect that either to the old speakers (though we haven't the space to set them far enough apart for them to shine), or to a new Sonos speaker(s).

Then, as space permits, we can happily sell off these components and look to build a longer-term solution. My research is limited and my knowledge is zero. I've seen a bunch of names you'll all know well - Rega and Pro-Ject at the forefront - what do you propose? Budget of £1,000 max, space is a real issue, and ease of use and ideally integration with the existing Sonos setup are priorities. I've seen options like the Rega Planar 1 Plus or Pro-Ject T1 Phono SB bundled with a Sonos Era 300.

Alternatively, the money "saved" by not buying the Sonos Era 300 (£300+) can be reinvested into a better TT and separate phono stage, to be hooked up to the RX1s which we can potentially just move around the room to get them 4+ foot apart when we're listening to music. Equally, we could just buy a phono stage to bypass the Roberts setup and use proper speakers, which might make the iffy Aldi / Lidl deck sound a whole lot better in the short-term and save a bundle of cash.

EDIT: I'm leaning towards a Rega Planar 1 and Rega Fono MM MK5 currently, based on nothing other than Dr. Google.

Happy for all my surface level research to be blown out of the water and entirely new possibilities presented.

 

[Revolutions]

Welcome to the dark side 😈 I’m 43, been collecting vinyl since my teenage years. I still love listening to it.

There’s a slight problem with your plan: a turntable with built in phono stage still needs an amplifier. You could run a turntable like that into your Sonos as it’s a powered speaker, but you’ll be missing out on the real joy of listening in stereo.

Two options:
1. buy a turntable & an amp. Something like the Marantz PM6007 is an excellent starting point & has a good phono stage. At around £500 you can easily afford the Rega P1 plus cables etc & connect your monitor audio speakers.
2. Keep it super simple & look at this all-in-one package, which I think costs about £999 https://www.rega.co.uk/products/Rega-System-One

 

[Al ears]

Welcome to the dark side 😈 I’m 43, been collecting vinyl since my teenage years. I still love listening to it.

There’s a slight problem with your plan: a turntable with built in phono stage still needs an amplifier. You could run a turntable like that into your Sonos as it’s a powered speaker, but you’ll be missing out on the real joy of listening in stereo.

Two options:
1. buy a turntable & an amp. Something like the Marantz PM6007 is an excellent starting point & has a good phono stage. At around £500 you can easily afford the Rega P1 plus cables etc & connect your monitor audio speakers.
2. Keep it super simple & look at this all-in-one package, which I think costs about £999 https://www.rega.co.uk/products/Rega-System-One

Pretty much exactly what I was about to write.....

 

[nads]

As mentioned in other threads if you go with Rega you are limited to using Regas cartridges. While if you look at Project, for example, your cartridge options open up.

 

[Al ears]

As mentioned in other threads if you go with Rega you are limited to using Regas cartridges. While if you look at Project, for example, your cartridge options open up.

You are not restricted to Rega cartridges on a Rega turntable, however they are obviously easier to set up.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Thanks all - bit of a fundamental gap in my research if I missed the need for an amp

I note the Marantz model suggested but am keen to see if I can find a more compact amp with a phono stage. I've seen the Rega io and Brio (neither have digital connectivity) and Pro-Ject MaiA S3 (a tad under-powered for my speakers) but will look into some other manufacturers too.

I also take on board the comments about potential complications with upgrading Rega turntables, so will look at alternative manufacturers here as well.

 

[Integralista]

Thanks all - bit of a fundamental gap in my research if I missed the need for an amp

I note the Marantz model suggested but am keen to see if I can find a more compact amp with a phono stage. I've seen the Rega io and Brio (neither have digital connectivity) and Pro-Ject MaiA S3 (a tad under-powered for my speakers) but will look into some other manufacturers too.

I also take on board the comments about potential complications with upgrading Rega turntables, so will look at alternative manufacturers here as well.

Hi, I recommend to look on Rega Planar 2 with new Rega cartridge ND 03. This combination is very good. Sound difference against Planar 1 with Carbon cartridge is larger than price gap. If you opt for Rega amp like small Io or Brio you do not need separate phono preamp for MM cartridge. Phono preamp in those Rega amps is very good for a such combination. And combination of lively Rega amp with Monitor Audio speakers will work fine. Monitor Audio are a bit darker sounding needing some power to wake up, which Rega has in spades. BR.

 

[Al ears]

Hi, I recommend to look on Rega Planar 2 with new Rega cartridge ND 03. This combination is very good. Sound difference against Planar 1 with Carbon cartridge is larger than price gap. If you opt for Rega amp like small Io or Brio you do not need separate phono preamp for MM cartridge. Phono preamp in those Rega amps is very good for a such combination. And combination of lively Rega amp with Monitor Audio speakers will work fine. Monitor Audio are a bit darker sounding needing some power to wake up, which Rega has in spades. BR.

Did you miss the bit about digital?

 

[RTHerringbone]

And combination of lively Rega amp with Monitor Audio speakers will work fine. Monitor Audio are a bit darker sounding needing some power to wake up, which Rega has in spades.

How can I actually be sure of that? I've seen varying guides as to how to ensure that amps and speakers are compatible, but they're a bit opaque. One school of thought is that simply you need an amp with a nominal impedance range aligning with the speakers (the RX1s are 6 ohms), but both the Rega io and Brio are listed at 8 ohms only - no range to them at all.

It does make me wonder if I need to not have the RX1s as a limiting factor here. They were OK when I got them 15 years ago for ~£400 in a budget setup - would they still be OK or do I need to consider shoehorning some new speakers into the budget (or increasing the budget to accommodate them)?

 

[RTHerringbone]

Did you miss the bit about digital?

This might not even be an issue. Again - lack of knowledge means that I don't know what the practical ramifications would be of no digital connectivity. Given that it's initially just a system to play records, it doesn't feel like a problem in the short term?

 

[Revolutions]

Your speakers will be more than fine & will suit a Rega amp. The Brio should work no problem with 6ohm.

If you need digital, look at the WiiM models for a cheap & easy way to connect streaming/bluetooth. The app is much better than Sonos imo, too. The mini starts at £130, but the Pro Plus is probably the better one to go for as an amp like the Brio doesn’t have an inbuilt dac, so you might want a better one on the WiiM for quality sound.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Your speakers will be more than fine & will suit a Rega amp. The Brio should work no problem with 6ohm.

If you need digital, look at the WiiM models for a cheap & easy way to connect streaming/bluetooth. The app is much better than Sonos imo, too. The mini starts at £130, but the Pro Plus is probably the better one to go for as an amp like the Brio doesn’t have an inbuilt dac, so you might want a better one on the WiiM for quality sound.

Thanks - it's good to know that there's still a growth path for me if I want to add a streaming option in future, and that it isn't blocked by the lack of digital inputs on the Brio. The Brio and a Planar 1 are emerging as definite options.

 

[daytona600]

£1000 Carbon Debut Evo + MaiA S3 + Speaker Box
LP , Streaming , Headphones , Streaming
Future upgrades with cartridges , racks , cables , stands etc

 

[RTHerringbone]

That Pro-Ject bundle caught my eye when looking at the MaiA S3 . The whole package is £1,600 at John Lewis in the UK (and basically the same if you source each component elsewhere). Then another ~£400 for the speaker stands, about £2m for the house and I too can have a photogenic setup!

 

[Fandango Andy]

Merry Christmas all! First post (and first thread), so please be gentle

Background: I'm 46 and so have primarily been buying music in the CD era. I made the questionable decision with my dad 15+ years ago to rip all my albums onto a NAS drive, preempting the streaming revolution which shortly after rendered *days* of ripping CDs rather pointless. Fast forward to now, where I'm a father of two and a household of me, my wife and two kids that consume music through Sonos products and Spotify - I'm sorry. The NAS drive is disconnected and sitting in a drawer somewhere.

A few months back, my father-in-law "gifted" us a terrible old Aldi / Lidl turntable with a few excellent old records; The Doors, Hendrix, Fleetwood Mac, The Beatles. The turntable is at best a decade-old £50 lump, currently being amplified and output through some equally old Roberts DAB / CD Player. I'm very much aware I'm not painting an audiophile picture here, but my hearing is far from exemplary and should shape your future advice.

More background: I am a gadget obsessive. My ears might not be the sharpest, but I'm a sucker for buying tech and developing new hobbies, and here's the core of the thread. Our tastes are fairly diverse - a lot of mid-90s Indie / grunge stuff, coupled with blues, jazz, neoclassical, classical, folk, rock, trip-hop. What we want to do is give ourselves an entry-level platform from which to grow our vinyl collection and listen to it in reasonable quality, but our early focus is about growing that number of records rather than the quality of the output. We've thoroughly enjoyed the experience of going back to record shops and the process of listening to vinyl. We want to build a collection of our favourite albums to give us something of a hobby to develop together.

Then, when the kids move out and we gain space and/or move house, we'll have room for a better system to appreciate our collection. So: what should we get at this early stage? We have an established Sonos network which we enjoy but are not wedded to. We have a pair of old Monitor Audio Silver RX1 bookshelf speakers in the loft. My gut says a turntable with an integrated phono stage is probably "good enough" for our initial steps on this journey, and that we can then connect that either to the old speakers (though we haven't the space to set them far enough apart for them to shine), or to a new Sonos speaker(s).

Then, as space permits, we can happily sell off these components and look to build a longer-term solution. My research is limited and my knowledge is zero. I've seen a bunch of names you'll all know well - Rega and Pro-Ject at the forefront - what do you propose? Budget of £1,000 max, space is a real issue, and ease of use and ideally integration with the existing Sonos setup are priorities. I've seen options like the Rega Planar 1 Plus or Pro-Ject T1 Phono SB bundled with a Sonos Era 300.

Alternatively, the money "saved" by not buying the Sonos Era 300 (£300+) can be reinvested into a better TT and separate phono stage, to be hooked up to the RX1s which we can potentially just move around the room to get them 4+ foot apart when we're listening to music. Equally, we could just buy a phono stage to bypass the Roberts setup and use proper speakers, which might make the iffy Aldi / Lidl deck sound a whole lot better in the short-term and save a bundle of cash.

EDIT: I'm leaning towards a Rega Planar 1 and Rega Fono MM MK5 currently, based on nothing other than Dr. Google.

Happy for all my surface level research to be blown out of the water and entirely new possibilities presented.

Its a a terrible hobby and you won't like any of those records, just give up on the idea and regift them to me!

Given the limitations in placement, budget and hearing, I wouldn't overthink it:

1. The Monitor Audio's are decent speakers, they should be more than good enough to get you started.
2. You are going to struggle to beat Marantz for an Amp at that price point.
3. Pro-Ject and Rega are the kings of record players at that budget.

In your position, would go for Pro-Ject Debut Carbon £349 + Marantz PM6007 £359 (or look at the Stereo 70, or PN7000N if you want a network receiver £200 - £250 more but still within budget)

I know nothing about Sonos, but a quick google tells me you can get Sonos Port for £339. If you want a streamer but doesn't need to be Sonos, take a look at the various options from WiiM or the aforementioned Marantz Stereo 70, or PN7000N.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Welcome to the dark side 😈 I’m 43, been collecting vinyl since my teenage years. I still love listening to it.

There’s a slight problem with your plan: a turntable with built in phono stage still needs an amplifier. You could run a turntable like that into your Sonos as it’s a powered speaker, but you’ll be missing out on the real joy of listening in stereo.

Two options:
1. buy a turntable & an amp. Something like the Marantz PM6007 is an excellent starting point & has a good phono stage. At around £500 you can easily afford the Rega P1 plus cables etc & connect your monitor audio speakers.
2. Keep it super simple & look at this all-in-one package, which I think costs about £999 https://www.rega.co.uk/products/Rega-System-One

Even better than that, you can get a PM6007 for £359 now!

 

[RTHerringbone]

Given the limitations in placement, budget and hearing, I wouldn't overthink it

I revel in overthinking. A case in point:

I'm now considering taking the RX1s out of the equation and.....opting for some active Ruark MR1 MkII desktop speakers. It seems like a wild swing in my thinking, but the listening space is limited so I've added a photo as that'll be handy to illustrate the constraints.

The system will be in that right-hand alcove, likely on top of the same little two drawer desk. In my head, I can see a turntable with a built in pre-amp in the middle, and one of the little Ruark speakers on either side. Currently we just listen to records as background music rather than a focused listening session - it'll be on if we're eating at the table (or if the lid is taken off the table and we're playing pool).

Clearly there's no room available there for the RX1s (or any bookshelf speaker) to be placed permanently, and it would be a PITA to have to shuffle them in and out of position each time we want to listen to a record. Remembering that we're currently listening to a supermarket turntable through a crappy little Roberts DAB/CD player, I'm optimistic that any upgrade to the turntable and amplification will be significant.

Does this sound totally insane? I think smart, small, active desktop speakers (they're sub £300) coupled with a new turntable must represent improvements, and given the location of the system and how we currently listen, this feels like a pragmatic compromise? If this does sound fairly sensible, then my only remaining issue becomes the turntable selection.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Thanks all - bit of a fundamental gap in my research if I missed the need for an amp

I note the Marantz model suggested but am keen to see if I can find a more compact amp with a phono stage. I've seen the Rega io and Brio (neither have digital connectivity) and Pro-Ject MaiA S3 (a tad under-powered for my speakers) but will look into some other manufacturers too.

I also take on board the comments about potential complications with upgrading Rega turntables, so will look at alternative manufacturers here as well.

I have given a fuller response where I recommended the Marantz too. I stand by that if you can find the space, if not a couple of smaller options:

Mission 778X £549
NAD D3020 V2 £399

They are both very good, but not as good, and for more money.

Post an image of where you intend to place them. The forum can probably give you some ideas, including how to make you speakers work best within the limitations.

 

[Fandango Andy]

I revel in overthinking. A case in point:

I'm now considering taking the RX1s out of the equation and.....opting for some active Ruark MR1 MkII desktop speakers. It seems like a wild swing in my thinking, but the listening space is limited so I've added a photo as that'll be handy to illustrate the constraints.

The system will be in that right-hand alcove, likely on top of the same little two drawer desk. In my head, I can see a turntable with a built in pre-amp in the middle, and one of the little Ruark speakers on either side. Currently we just listen to records as background music rather than a focused listening session - it'll be on if we're eating at the table (or if the lid is taken off the table and we're playing pool).

Clearly there's no room available there for the RX1s (or any bookshelf speaker) to be placed permanently, and it would be a PITA to have to shuffle them in and out of position each time we want to listen to a record. Remembering that we're currently listening to a supermarket turntable through a crappy little Roberts DAB/CD player, I'm optimistic that any upgrade to the turntable and amplification will be significant.

Does this sound totally insane? I think smart, small, active desktop speakers (they're sub £300) coupled with a new turntable must represent improvements, and given the location of the system and how we currently listen, this feels like a pragmatic compromise? If this does sound fairly sensible, then my only remaining issue becomes the turntable selection.

I just suggested you post a photo as you were posting a photo, great minds!

You have lots of space for the amp ant record player, as you have identified the issue is speakers. The only thing I can say, is think outside the alcove. can you post some other pictures of the room?

 

[RTHerringbone]

I just suggested you post a photo as you were posting a photo, great minds!

You have lots of space for the amp ant record player, as you have identified the issue is speakers. The only thing I can say, is think outside the alcove. can you post some other pictures of the room?

A few more photos attached. It's a standard Victorian semi in the UK - essentially a series of rooms measuring about 5x5 metres, tapering down to ~5x4 meters for the front room, which is a (full!) TV snug. All strung together in a line, making one relatively long but narrow row of rooms. Effectively, any space that doesn't already have something in it, is a corridor!

I've just remembered that I know a guy who used to work in the local (long closed ) Hi-Fi shop and he now works for Ruark. I may drop him a line to get his thoughts too. If nothing else, there might be a deal to be done. Q Acoustics have the M20 which might also be an option.

At the same time, my wife reckons she'd prefer to steer clear of desktop speakers and move the RX1s in and out from under the desk when we listen to music. Too many choices

 

[Fandango Andy]

A few more photos attached. It's a standard Victorian semi in the UK - essentially a series of rooms measuring about 5x5 metres, tapering down to ~5x4 meters for the front room, which is a (full!) TV snug. All strung together in a line, making one relatively long but narrow row of rooms. Effectively, any space that doesn't already have something in it, is a corridor!

I've just remembered that I know a guy who used to work in the local (long closed ) Hi-Fi shop and he now works for Ruark. I may drop him a line to get his thoughts too. If nothing else, there might be a deal to be done. Q Acoustics have the M20 which might also be an option.

At the same time, my wife reckons she'd prefer to steer clear of desktop speakers and move the RX1s in and out from under the desk when we listen to music. Too many choices

As you say, it looks like a classic British Victorian house (with a side extension to the kitchen?). Lots of character but not the easiest for loudspeaker placement, but you do have options. None are perfect, but they may work!

1. What I would do. Do you ever close the door into the dining room (or pool room)? If not get rid of it. Alternatively, could it be moved to open into the hall, or swing into the room instead of against the wall? (it may have opened that way in the past, they often did). If so you could place speakers on stands either side of the opening into the living room.
2. Can you move the toaster? One speaker either side of the chimneybreast.
3. You suggested moving the speakers into passion when you use them. Not as bonkers as it sounds. But them side by side on that little table where the Robers radio is now. If you are in the kitchen and want background music, it will be mono, but sound better than you have. When you want to listen properly move the speaker. You could use a stool or small side table that is sat under the desk when not in use. The NAD amp I mentioned yesterday stands on its side so that could sit on the floor up the corner out the way.
4. Far from ideal sonically, and if you don’t mind cutting holes in the ceiling, you could have in-ceiling. They aren’t that noticeable, and you could leave them as a “feature” if you ever sell.
5. Again, far from great sonically, but better that you have now. Put them on the top shelf where the globe is now.
6. Finally, the living room. Wall mounted looks like your only option!

I’m sure you will sort something.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Cheers @Fandango Andy

I have an option 7 which is certainly far from ideal sonically, but arguably a reasonable route to allow me to acquire kit that boosts current performance and can be repositioned at a later date when space / layout is less awkward.

More photos added of the extended kitchen side return. That wall with the sofa on is about 5 metres long and has a convenient cranny on the right where some big steels are holding up the exterior wall. I'm mulling the feasibility of having one RX1 speaker by the vertical radiator and one in the recess under the rightmost Velux window. A bit of furniture shuffling would allow me to have a new amp and turntable on the white IKEA Kallax unit, with room for records underneath.

Obviously it's MILES from ideal having speakers pointing towards a kitchen island, and potentially a sofa sandwiched between speakers pointing forward, but I need to be pragmatic and make compromises. As much as anything, if this allows me to get the green light from my better half to buy shiny new kit, then it'll make me feel like I'm making progress.

 

[Revolutions]

I’d be thinking about wall mounting the speakers either side of the chimney breast.

In my old Victorian house where we extended the kitchen to the side return, I had to accept my stereo in a far from ideal place for ‘proper’ listening but it worked well against the back wall.

The door on the left leads to the classic double living room setup. Was no way of fitting the speakers in there.

 

[RTHerringbone]

I've done a bit of furniture shuffling and will clean up the speaker stands (they were in a shed for about a decade), get the speakers down from the loft and put things in general place tomorrow.

I'm not sure wall mounting is a great option here as there's no available "either side" of that chimney breast; the left-side is inaccessible as it's a kitchen cupboard. Just moving the turntable into the kitchen has shown that it just works in terms of how "right" it looks in that space and how natural it is to sit on the sofa and listen to it, or to prep and cook at the hob while listening to it. It's more comfortable in the kitchen than that middle room so it ticks a few boxes in terms of how we live, if not in terms of the best place to listen to it.

I think once the speakers are raised on their stands it'll resolve some of the general space / positioning issues, so if nothing else, standing and listening to it from the other side of the kitchen could actually be rather acceptable.

 

[Revolutions]

Good luck, and let us know how you get on!