I had intention to switch from my Spendor S5e to a Dynaudio Audio Focus 110 after being impressed by the sound. But after reading some rave comment and reviews about Spendor SA1, i had decided to drop by the dealer place to have a listen. The Spendor SA1 was driven by Sudgen A21SE and matching CDP. I am disappointed by the presentation of SA1, it is not the familiar Spendor sound that i expect but instead the sound of the SA1 is boxy and flat sounding. After a few track i decided to leave the dealer place as i was really not impressed. Before jumping to any conclusion, was the un-impressive presentation cause by the fact that the SA1 was driven by Sudgen gears or this is simply the new sounding from Spendor SA1?
Spendor SA1 Vs Dynaudio Focus 110
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I'm a little biased on this as I own the SA1s. They're power hungry little speakers with a measured sensitivity of less than 82dB. To make them do their thing I think you need to stick a bit more power through them than something like a Sugden can offer but I've not tried the Sugden so this is just an opinion.
They don't share the same sort of house sound as the prior Spendor products but add a little more attack and forwardness. They still maintain a pretty flat frequency response and have typical Spendor smoothness. They're probably the least boxy stand mount speaker I've ever heard and reviewers share the sentiment so I'm not sure why you found them so boxy.
The Dynaudios are a very different animal with much more bass behind them and I can see why those that like the 110s won't like the SA1s.
Have you tried the Spendor A5?
They don't share the same sort of house sound as the prior Spendor products but add a little more attack and forwardness. They still maintain a pretty flat frequency response and have typical Spendor smoothness. They're probably the least boxy stand mount speaker I've ever heard and reviewers share the sentiment so I'm not sure why you found them so boxy.
The Dynaudios are a very different animal with much more bass behind them and I can see why those that like the 110s won't like the SA1s.
Have you tried the Spendor A5?
I haven't heard the Spendors, but I can vouch for the Focus 110's as I have a pair. Excellent with my Naim stuff, but they ideally need to be on stands and not on a shelf(which is where mine are at the moment - young children with fingers keen to poke!}. Even with the ports bunged they get a bit bassy when you turn it up. I would imagine that the Spendors are better suited to shelf placement as they are a closed box design. Positioning to key to the decision I think.
I can concur with what igglebert says here, you will not get a true representation of what the SA1s can do by putting them with the Sugden, and again they are not the traditional house sound of Spendor which was a bit pipe and slippers for my taste. To me the SA1s are far more exciting with pace and timing, together with an amazing midrange and treble.
I'm sorry I cannot help you with Dyns as I have not heard them.............
I'm sorry I cannot help you with Dyns as I have not heard them.............
It seems i am right as i felt personally the Sudgen is not doing justice to SA1 and unfortunately they do not have other amp for me to demo. Anyway i had decided to go for Focus 110 together with the target stand.
Excellent choice. I heard those on a 60W Conrad Johnson pre/power valve amp and it sounded very nice indeed. Enjoy...
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
I have to disagree here. The Sugden A21SE is an extremely capable amplifier, and while the power output may look a little low, it has plenty of Class A current to drive pretty much any speaker under £2k. There are pre/power combination more expensive than the Sugden that can't make speakers sing like the A21SE does. Personally, I think the Sugden/Spendor match should be a good one. Feel free to try another amp with the SA1's, but if you're not keen on them already, I doubt another amplifier is going to change that for you.
Surely your dealer must have at least one other amplifier as a comparison to the Sugden?!
Surely your dealer must have at least one other amplifier as a comparison to the Sugden?!
Partly down to expectations too I guess. I'd love to try the Sugden to see for myself although I've heard it noted before (somewhere!) that it likes sensitive speakers so that you get stronger dynamics. If you drive low sensitivity (albeit easy load in this case) with it then perhaps the dynamics suffer.
Having demoed these two recently in a direct comparison i thought the spendors were head and shoulders above these. I am not a bass freak so the lack of bottom end grunt from the spendors did not concern me too much. Apart from bass (which i thought was overpowering on the dynaudios anyway) spendors were much better in every other department.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
The Dynos, IMHO, maybe too overpowing given the presentation of the Sugden. Not too sure what said here about the Sugden powering the SA-1s. The Dynos, by tradition, are very difficult to drive and placement is fussier than the Spendors.
I heard the Dyns at the end of Cyrus 8xpd and im convinced itlacked the grip on the bottom end for the dyns. Every bass note sounded like blowing a raspberry. Not tight or controlled enough for me..
jaxwired
Well-known member
SHAXOS:Having demoed these two recently in a direct comparison i thought the spendors were head and shoulders above these. I am not a bass freak so the lack of bottom end grunt from the spendors did not concern me too much. Apart from bass (which i thought was overpowering on the dynaudios anyway) spendors were much better in every other department.
I've got to say I'm surprised how many people seem to be perfectly happy with speakers that offer very little bass below 60hz. Even when you listen to music that seems to have almost no bass content, bass is still making a surprising contribution. The lack of these frequencies seems less musical and more emotionally flat. There is a richness to the music that is added by that bass content and is painfully obvious when missing regardless of how breathtaking the midrange and upper frequencies are handled.
I love dynaudio speakers because they have that bass element in spades and it's not muddy or boomy. I would not consider myself to be a bass freak either, but I'd rather have the bass than do without it.
I've got to say I'm surprised how many people seem to be perfectly happy with speakers that offer very little bass below 60hz. Even when you listen to music that seems to have almost no bass content, bass is still making a surprising contribution. The lack of these frequencies seems less musical and more emotionally flat. There is a richness to the music that is added by that bass content and is painfully obvious when missing regardless of how breathtaking the midrange and upper frequencies are handled.
I love dynaudio speakers because they have that bass element in spades and it's not muddy or boomy. I would not consider myself to be a bass freak either, but I'd rather have the bass than do without it.
jaxwired
Well-known member
SHAXOS:I heard the Dyns at the end of Cyrus 8xpd and im convinced itlacked the grip on the bottom end for the dyns. Every bass note sounded like blowing a raspberry. Not tight or controlled enough for me..
Probably the amp. It does take a decent amp to provide controlled bass.
But with all do respect, we are talking about a tiny little speaker with a 5 1/2" driver here. How uncontrolled could the bass be? Is it possible that you simply prefer no bass? I think some people do. No offense intended.
Probably the amp. It does take a decent amp to provide controlled bass.
But with all do respect, we are talking about a tiny little speaker with a 5 1/2" driver here. How uncontrolled could the bass be? Is it possible that you simply prefer no bass? I think some people do. No offense intended.
No none taken. I did listen to Massive Attacks Angel and its a song that makes speakers cry. Thing is i do like bass as some of the music i listen to is extremely bassy. But i never have the room for speakers that will provide me with proper low notes that are clean accurate and fast. What i dont like is overblown bass that is not tight. With the dyns i listened to there was just this constant low level groan with bassy tracks that affected other frequencies. So in my opinion it was pretty uncontrolled. But like i said im not ruling out the amps lack of grunt.
I personally prefer a speaker to not bother with low frequencies if it cant handle them, rather than to try and fail. This is what the spendors do. You cant hear some of the low level stuff on tracks but it means that it does not muddy the rest of the frequency range. I used to own a pair of eclipse TD712mk2s. These had limited bass but were so unbelievably good at what they did that you did not care. So i dont think you NEED bass for a musical speaker.
jaxwired:
SHAXOS:I heard the Dyns at the end of Cyrus 8xpd and im convinced itlacked the grip on the bottom end for the dyns. Every bass note sounded like blowing a raspberry. Not tight or controlled enough for me..
Probably the amp. It does take a decent amp to provide controlled bass.
But with all do respect, we are talking about a tiny little speaker with a 5 1/2" driver here. How uncontrolled could the bass be? Is it possible that you simply prefer no bass? I think some people do. No offense intended.
I personally prefer a speaker to not bother with low frequencies if it cant handle them, rather than to try and fail. This is what the spendors do. You cant hear some of the low level stuff on tracks but it means that it does not muddy the rest of the frequency range. I used to own a pair of eclipse TD712mk2s. These had limited bass but were so unbelievably good at what they did that you did not care. So i dont think you NEED bass for a musical speaker.
jaxwired:
SHAXOS:I heard the Dyns at the end of Cyrus 8xpd and im convinced itlacked the grip on the bottom end for the dyns. Every bass note sounded like blowing a raspberry. Not tight or controlled enough for me..
Probably the amp. It does take a decent amp to provide controlled bass.
But with all do respect, we are talking about a tiny little speaker with a 5 1/2" driver here. How uncontrolled could the bass be? Is it possible that you simply prefer no bass? I think some people do. No offense intended.
I didn't find anything particularly wrong about the bass with the 110s and 140s I heard recently. Amps were a Rega Mira (I think) and a Unico, the more powerful one.
I'm of the jaxwired opinion on this: they need a decent, as in powerful, amp to control the bass, but that is true of many, many speakers.
I agree with your points about not needing bass for a musical speaker, though, Shaxos. My own small SFs don't go down deep but are none the worse for it.
I'm of the jaxwired opinion on this: they need a decent, as in powerful, amp to control the bass, but that is true of many, many speakers.
I agree with your points about not needing bass for a musical speaker, though, Shaxos. My own small SFs don't go down deep but are none the worse for it.
My experiences and reasoning mirror those of Shaxos. When I bought the SA1s I couldn't accommodate speakers that produce more bass than the SA1 without muddiness and boom. I tried a few too. I now have more room but would have to spend far more than I can afford to get an equal sound with good bass. The addition of a sub isn't a bad approach but I doubt it's up there with decent floorstanders.
The Dyn Focus 110 sounded boom/tiz on the end of a Cyrus 8 amp but worked well on a Conrad Johnson valve amp. I think the latter cost over £5k.
The Dyn Focus 110 sounded boom/tiz on the end of a Cyrus 8 amp but worked well on a Conrad Johnson valve amp. I think the latter cost over £5k.
having owned the 110s, it is entirely possible to get slow, boomy bass that dominates the sound if the amp doesn't have the current output to control them.
jaxwired:
But with all do respect, we are talking about a tiny little speaker with a 5 1/2" driver here. How uncontrolled could the bass be?
in the case of the 110, very!
But with all do respect, we are talking about a tiny little speaker with a 5 1/2" driver here. How uncontrolled could the bass be?
in the case of the 110, very!
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Agree with Craig - in the case of the 110's, extremely slow and overpowering. They need careful partnering.
Craig M.:having owned the 110s, it is entirely possible to get slow, boomy bass that dominates the sound if the amp doesn't have the current output to control them.
I have a pair of Focus 110 driven by Quad 909 with 250 WRMS at 4 Ohms and performed flawlessly.
My recent upgrade to Bryston 4BSST2 with 500 WRMS at 4 Ohms gave a whole lot control in bass, clean highs, and uncolored mids...its SQ is in a different league altogether. Though Dynaudio recommends > 150W to drive the Focus 110 adequately...its without a doubt these speakers love lots of current and/or watts.
I have a pair of Focus 110 driven by Quad 909 with 250 WRMS at 4 Ohms and performed flawlessly.
My recent upgrade to Bryston 4BSST2 with 500 WRMS at 4 Ohms gave a whole lot control in bass, clean highs, and uncolored mids...its SQ is in a different league altogether. Though Dynaudio recommends > 150W to drive the Focus 110 adequately...its without a doubt these speakers love lots of current and/or watts.
larevoj:
Craig M.:having owned the 110s, it is entirely possible to get slow, boomy bass that dominates the sound if the amp doesn't have the current output to control them.
I have a pair of Focus 110 driven by Quad 909 with 250 WRMS at 4 Ohms and performed flawlessly.
My recent upgrade to Bryston 4BSST2 with 500 WRMS at 4 Ohms gave a whole lot control in bass, clean highs, and uncolored mids...its SQ is in a different league altogether. Though Dynaudio recommends > 150W to drive the Focus 110 adequately...its without a doubt these speakers love lots of current and/or watts.
I have to agreed with you on this, you need a good amp to get the best of the 110. Having audit both the 110 and SA1, i find the SA1 flat and boxy sounding as well. The dynamic range of the 110 is also better than the SA1.
Craig M.:having owned the 110s, it is entirely possible to get slow, boomy bass that dominates the sound if the amp doesn't have the current output to control them.
I have a pair of Focus 110 driven by Quad 909 with 250 WRMS at 4 Ohms and performed flawlessly.
My recent upgrade to Bryston 4BSST2 with 500 WRMS at 4 Ohms gave a whole lot control in bass, clean highs, and uncolored mids...its SQ is in a different league altogether. Though Dynaudio recommends > 150W to drive the Focus 110 adequately...its without a doubt these speakers love lots of current and/or watts.
I have to agreed with you on this, you need a good amp to get the best of the 110. Having audit both the 110 and SA1, i find the SA1 flat and boxy sounding as well. The dynamic range of the 110 is also better than the SA1.
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