Speakers upgrade

[Iori]

I'm begining the process of upgrading my speakers, although this could be painfull, I'm determined to try and enjoy the process!

My current setup comprises of :

Synology Nas drive with all my music collection on it in flac format.

Sonos connect

Marantz PM6004 Amp

Monitor Audio BX2 Speakers

My listening room dimensions are 20' 7" by 10' 6"

My music taste could possibly be described as eclectic or even at times confused, I prefer "broad". Depending on mood - Feeder, Morisette, P Floyd, Janis Ian, Keb Mo, Tracy Chapman, Eva Cassidy, Rammstein and eveything in between!

I've had the BX2's for two years now and whilst they are a vast improvement on my previous old, old, old Tannoys, I find them a bit too "bright" and lacking in lower end for my tastes. I'm open to another pair of standmounters or going to floormounters, currently thinking of something from PMC, Spendor, B&W, this list is not exclusive or in any particular order.

Just to further confuse things next upgrade will be a new amp but the speeakers need to come first.

Where do I start?!!!

 

[spockfish]

I followed that route as well. First new speakers, next a new amp. And with the speakers you mention I think you indeed need a different amp.

But first thing first. Speakers. Where do you start? Very simpel. Listen. Listen. And listen. Preferably at your place. Take the time. Don't rush.

Oh yeah. And don't forget the ride. It took me more than a year to find my new speakers, but I thoroughly enjoyed the search.

Regards,

 

[DIB]

I saw a nice deal on new Focal Chorus 806v standmounts the other day, about half the price of when they first came out.

I would class them as a step up, but it's difficult to get a listen to a pair first I would imagine.

.

 

[Overdose]

Where do I start?!!!

With an Aune X1 and a pair of Dynaudio BM6 Mk III?

 

[T1mb0]

Enjoy the upgrade journey! So many choices and options out there so try out as much as you can. An hour in a dealers demo room is worth 100 on the forum

But make PMC last on the list - you might not need any more demos after.!!

 

[Iori]

Thanks for the replies so far everyone.

PMC's are definately on the list, wont be able to keep them till last though I dont think!

Had not really thought about Focal or Dynaudio (thought these were nearfield monitors) but might have listen if i can find a demo somewhere near.

Hope to go for some demo's visits within the next few weeks, what is a bit of a nuisance for me is that decent HIFI shops are non existent in my area (nearest 60 miles away!!!) so a home demo is going to be a problem especially if I end up going further afield, so any home demo will have to be for serious candidates only, but a home demo I feel will be vital because of the awkward proportions of my HiFi room 20.5' by 10.5' with a height of 8'.

My main worry is oversizing the speakers as regards the room size, would spomething like the B&W685 S2 or Spendor A5 be too much, would I be better off going for for a standmounter like the PMC twenty22, argh questions, questions, questions! good fun though!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hope to go for some demo's visits within the next few weeks, what is a bit of a nuisance for me is that decent HIFI shops are non existent in my area (nearest 60 miles away!!!)

Just out of interest - is your nearest dealer 60 miles away, or are there dealers closer than that that you don't feel are good enough?

 

[Iori]

Nearest I'm afraid, I'm in North Wales, there are 'Tv' shops nearer that sell 'some' audio equipment but they are not serious HiFi retailers and are as such not really knowledgable, and in this instance will not have what I'm looking for anyway.

 

[matthewpiano]

PMC, Dynaudio and ATC are the brands I'd be looking at. I do agree that once you have heard a pair of PMCs, you might not want to go any further. I heard the new Twenty 26 floorstanders the other week and they were superb.

 

[DIB]

I heard the new Twenty 26 floorstanders the other week and they were superb.

Indeed they were MP, too good for £10k worth of Naim amplification

Have you ordered yours yet?

.

 

[matthewpiano]

I heard the new Twenty 26 floorstanders the other week and they were superb.

Indeed they were MP, too good for £10k worth of Naim amplification

Have you ordered yours yet?

.

Hi DIB. Not going to happen in anything like the near future! How about you?

I really enjoyed the speakers but I would love to hear them driven by some more natural sounding amplification than the Naims, which aren't really my cup of tea.

It was good to meet you.

 

[CnoEvil]

I really enjoyed the speakers but I would love to hear them driven by some more natural sounding amplification than the Naims, which aren't really my cup of tea.

.....like some Icon Audio LA5 TX / 845 Mk11 M Monoblocks. *music2*

 

[DIB]

I heard the new Twenty 26 floorstanders the other week and they were superb.

Indeed they were MP, too good for £10k worth of Naim amplification

Have you ordered yours yet?

.

Hi DIB. Not going to happen in anything like the near future! How about you?

I really enjoyed the speakers but I would love to hear them driven by some more natural sounding amplification than the Naims, which aren't really my cup of tea.

It was good to meet you.

Maybe when my 6 numbers come up, and like you say certainly not with Naim.

Those PMC Twenty 26 are certainly the best speakers I've heard, but back in my world I'm still happy with my Epos Elans.

It will be interesting to see what equipment is on the bill for the next vinyl evening, hopefully with an amp that doesn't pack in

.

 

[bigfish786]

wish i'd bought mine years ago. they're fantastic.

 

[Iori]

I heard the new Twenty 26 floorstanders the other week and they were superb.

Indeed they were MP, too good for £10k worth of Naim amplification

Have you ordered yours yet?

.

Very nice they look too!! Probably sound fantastic also. Bit over my budget and definately over my room's 'budget'.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Hmmmm......

Everytime I read these speaker upgrade threads on the end of a budget amp I feel compelled to give the same advise.

Upgrade your amp 1st. The speakers being recommended in this thread will leave you underwhelmed once in your home on the end of your current amp - then you'll be back hear seeking advise on fixes.

The BX2's are capable speakers and will improve with amplification - if you are seriously looking at spending 500 or so on speakers consider upgrading your amp.

The speakers are small enough to lug around to auditions ..... Test them with alternatives to the marantz.

That's what I'd advise anyway.

 

[Iori]

Interesting comment, new amplification is definately on my list though I was thinking of speakers first, but what you say does make me think I must admit.

I'm certainly open minded on this, what do others on here think?

 

[matthewpiano]

It is a bit of a chicken and egg situation. I agree with Thomson that you wouldn't want to be driving those sorts of speakers with the Marantz for very long as it will show its limitations, particularly with regard to control. You will get more out of the BX2s by upgrading the amp than you will out of the Marantz by upgrading the speakers IMO but either way you'll end up replacing both in the medium term in order to get the best out of your investment.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Those BX2's are better or should I say more capable than the pm6004. What you discribe is usually the results of an amp struggling to control a speaker properly.

Audition them on the end of a Roksan or maybe an Arcam FMJ 19 as a minimum

You may be surprised by them. Consider if you have to live with your upgrade for a while.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I can only agree, and have said many times in situations like these. You can drive any speaker with any amplifier, but all amplifiers will have a comfort zone - once they step out of that, the system just ends up sounding dull, lacking punch and has no attack. You will get more out of a budget speaker driving them with an amplifier that would be considered too good for them rather than driving a pair of high quality speakers with budget amplification.

 

[KidKomet]

I'll pitch in with another vote for upgrading the amp first. As previously mentioned, they're great little speakers that can easily be transported to a dealer for a solid afternoon of auditioning. Roksan and Arcam are great suggestions. If at all possible, try and audition a Creek Evo 50a. I think you'll genuinely be suprised at how good your speakers can sound.

 

[Vladimir]

The decades old dogma of "speakers first" has proven accurate in my experience. Speakers are transducers and make the biggest difference in the audio chain by a large margin. You choose an amplifier to drive a certain set of speakers to their best ability. This is why speakers have power handling and amplifiers have power output. You choose your car engine and transmition according to the car body and purpose. It's that simple.

Amplifiers are the second biggest liers in Hi-Fi after cables and now ahead of CD, which is almost gone. In double listening tests people really strugle or can't at all tell appart one amplifier from another, unless it is a tube vs solid state. However auditioning speakers in a DBT is easy and you will hear the difference almost every time. This is why you can bang any price you want on an amplifier at any performance level, people will orient by price and reviews disregarding the actual performance.

That is the dogma. However, you can do whatever you like, enjoy the journey and don't stress about it. Sometimes you get things the way you like them, sometimes everything sucks. But you can't gain experience by getting it right everytime from advices and reviews only. Sometimes it is fun to f*ck it up. Why not? You lost your money even before the game even began, might as well enjoy the ride.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Naaa, I have to disagree with you Vladimer.

Amps will only sound similar if the volume levels are matched to the weaker amp.

If allowed to do its thing a quality amps... er....quality will shine through. This I know from experience.

Pitch a 100 pound 30watt amp against a 1000pound 100watt amp and the differences are as clear as night and day
.

Your argument only holds water if the better amp is limited to the poorer amps limits.

Most likely your reason for owning the Roksan and not an old Akai.
You know this, so were you are going with this argument I do not know.

The amp is the engine to the system - all cars can do 30mph and most will get you from A to B it's how they get you there that matters.

The decades old dogma of "speakers first" has proven accurate in my experience. Speakers are transducers and make the biggest difference in the audio chain by a large margin. You choose an amplifier to drive a certain set of speakers to their best ability. This is why speakers have power handling and amplifiers have power output. You choose your car engine and transmition according to the car body and purpose. It's that simple.?

Amplifiers are the second biggest liers in Hi-Fi after cables and now ahead of CD, which is almost gone. In double listening tests people really strugle or can't at all tell appart one amplifier from another, unless it is a tube vs solid state. However auditioning speakers in a DBT is easy and you will hear the difference almost every time. This is why you can bang any price you want on an amplifier at any performance level, people will orient by price and reviews disregarding the actual performance.?

That is the dogma. However, you can do whatever you like, enjoy the journey and don't stress about it. Sometimes you get things the way you like them, sometimes everything sucks. But you can't gain experience by getting it right everytime from advices and reviews only. Sometimes it is fun to f*ck it up. Why not? You lost your money even before the game even began, might as well enjoy the ride.

 

 

[richardw42]

Will the Sonos be your one connected source ?

if so, the Sonos has it's own volume control so a pair of active or powered speakers connected to the Sonos will do a better job.

My suggestion is a pair of active AVI DM5 speakers connected to the Sonos with RCAs, there will be other, similar speakers that could perform the same role, depending on budget.

 

[Vladimir]

Pitch a 100 pound 30watt amp against a 1000pound 100watt amp and the differences are as clear as night and day .

Your argument only holds water if the better amp is limited to the poorer amps limits.

The core of this dilema with amplifiers is the quality of sound, not quantity. In a DBT test with all levels matched, no clipping, we test the myth of a 60W audiophile amp bettering a 300W pro amp for sonic quality, thus justifying the difference in price. What will be the results if we compare £2,500 Naim Supernait 2 (80Wpc in 8 ohms) vs £150 Behringer A500 (300Wpc in 8 ohms)?

People tend to ascribe additional quality points to amplifiers due to marketing influence, groupthink, nostalgia, own logical reasoning etc. They confirm their bias by sighted listening tests in showrooms and we know that is the most unreliable test possible due to psychoacoustics[/b]. Are these experienced listeners deaf or delusional? Actually no, they may hear a real difference in sighted tests when they can fiddle with the volume knob to their will, as you suggested.

When an amp has the sufficent power to extend bass properly (like the recording has it) the sound is big, fat, slow and midrange details are obscured to our perception when we try to analyze the sound. Many audiophiles prefer underpowered amps because they sound more airy, faster, more detailed, usually unaware that this is because they can't reproduce bass to the full extent. Here emerges the psychoacustic effect of more quality when quantity lacks. One who prefers the spine tingling details of the midrange, where our hearing is most sensitive, or the rich textures of string in upper bass and lower midrange, just prefers leaving bottom end of the frequency range subdued.