speakers and amp advice - £10-20k budget for rock and dance music

[steve_1979]

These two statements were mine.

First of all the Genelec 8260A speakers that I recommended are probably some of the most accurate and competent speakers available (although not nessessarly the most enjoyible depending on your taste). They may cost only £6000 but I bet that they'd give any of the other sugestions in this thread more than a run for their money when it comes to low distortion, detail, accuracy, frequency range, SPL, stereo imaging and all in one complete package.

Secondly, there's nothing wrong with the quality of Spotify Premium (provided you have the 'High quality streaming' checkbox ticked in the 'Preferences' menu). Spotify Premium streams Ogg Vorbis audio files at 320kbps. Try ripping an audio CD to both lossless FLAC and 320kbps Ogg Vorbis. The two files will sound identical to each other and I guarantee that if you ABX them in Foobar then you will never be able to tell them apart.

Like I said, it is not my intention to argue with your POV.

Of course there is nothing "wrong" with 320kbps per se, it's just my experience that as it's presented, there is a difference compared with 16 bit, which is increasingly highlighted as the system gets more expensive.

The same is true with 24 vs 16 bit, though I take your point on board that it could be down to different mastering.....but it's all academic, as you can't get the "24 bit mastering" on the 16 bit version, so if you want the difference the better mastering may give, you have to pay through the nose for the "Studio Master".

It wasn't taken as arguing at all. I was just explaining the rationalising behind the two comments that you highlighted.

Also (still not arguing just pointing out) the way a track is 'mastered' and whether it's a '16/24bit' file are two totally separate things. If you were to take a 24 bit studio master audio file and convert it to a 16 bit file it will still sound identical to the original 24 bit master version (remember the Linn music downloads threads).

 

[matt49]

At lower bit rates Ogg Vorbis sound quality can be a issue but not at 320kbps.Try ripping an audio CD to both lossless FLAC and 320kbps Ogg Vorbis then compare them using the ABX test in Foobar.

(Apologies to the OP if this is starting to go a bit of topic.)

Given that the OP admitted to not knowing a great deal about hifi, this thread will at least have served the useful purpose of making it clear that there are some contentious issues here.

And I'll try the 320kbps ABX test one day soon. Apparently the differences are pretty clear with castanets. Not my favourite instrument, but all in the name of pushing back the boundaries of ignorance ...

:cheers:

Matt

 

[CnoEvil]

Also (still not arguing just pointing out) the way a track is 'mastered' and whether it's a '16/24bit' file are two totally separate things. If you were to take a 24 bit studio master audio file and convert it to a 16 bit file it will still sound identical to the original 24 bit master version (remember the Linn music downloads threads).

I know this thanks to your good work which exploded some myths, but my point remains - the only way to gain access to the "better" recorded version, is to get it in 24 bit......so why it sounds better becomes academic.

I suspect being able to record in 24 bit has advantages that "may" translate into some of the reasons as to why it sounds better (to some), but I'm not qualified (or confident enough) to argue the case.

 

[alienmango]

holidays don't have to be boring burning beach affairs.... go motorbike round india etc...white water raft I don't know.....The best holiday I ever had cost £500 total.

Depending on your ceiling height....

http://www.hifiguy.co.uk/?product=dali-megaline-iii

 

[alienmango]

On the ABX thing, I could tell the difference between 320 and flac on over 90% of music (very difficult with dubstep/happy hardcore) back when I had a £50 richer sounds amp and a pair of cheap wharfedale dj/hifi hybrid speakers (cabinets made from chipboard) with my laptop as a dac with a 50p 3.5mm rca cable.

Non believers need their ears testing.

 

[scotto]

I mainly listen to the same music as you. Speaking as someone who was a full time music producer and audio engineer for 8 years I can tell you this music DOES contain subtle textures in production. 10 - 20k is a lot of wong, when I auditioned my cd player for instance it was put up against a 6k one from the same company, the 6k one was a bit better but it was marginal and for me did not justify the expense at all, to the point where if I won the lottery I would still not buy it, that was auditioning acoustic music too. Get out there and listen I would personally look at rotel and rega amps and look to spend no more than 4k total, I would definitely get a sub woofer too. You could go the monitor route and you get to hear the tunes as they were made, but that 'tell the truth' sound is no fun and wears thin pretty quickly, you get that sound with most actives as well, it's just a bit dull.

 

[floyd droid]

oke: So that people like you can bring some knowledge and sense the thread. :shifty:

Ouch ! now wipe that wax off your finger .

Given that the OP admitted to not knowing a great deal about hifi,

This may have been suggested earlier in the thread but..... I suggest that the OP find a Dealer nearby with a good selection of different brands and have a wander inside. Have a look around and clock a few prices. Then ask for a listen to a few set ups and have a chat. If he is any good the dealer will ask what you DONT like about that particular set up . If he stands there tapping his foot and banging on about how brilliant this set up is ignore him as all he is doing is playing bloody mind games. It may be brilliant to him and his till but if you dont like it then say so.

Its just as easy to make a bad decision with a 20k budget as it is a 500 quid one , take your time.

Cno , post 5 page 1, gave some decent options for the Op to have a look into *.

Pointless me throwing in any options , think the OP may poo his pants when he sees anything I like and use , lol. Plus I havnt a ruddy clue with regards to this lossless/sonos stuff.

* except for Bryston :twisted:

 

[Frank Harvey]

personally I would spend 5k on a nice system then the other 15k on drink, drugs and dirty women. 20k on hi fi is a waste.

I like your style, but it would have even less WAF than hifi......and that's difficult enough. :shifty:

I'm guessing with pastimes like that, he doesn't need to worry about WAF

 

[CnoEvil]

* except for Bryston :twisted:

:rofl:

:twisted: :twisted:

 

[CnoEvil]

personally I would spend 5k on a nice system then the other 15k on drink, drugs and dirty women. 20k on hi fi is a waste.

I like your style, but it would have even less WAF than hifi......and that's difficult enough. :shifty:

I'm guessing with pastimes like that, he doesn't need to worry about WAF

Unless a willing participant. :O

 

[relocated]

On the ABX thing, I could tell the difference between 320 and flac on over 90% of music (very difficult with dubstep/happy hardcore) back when I had a £50 richer sounds amp and a pair of cheap wharfedale dj/hifi hybrid speakers (cabinets made from chipboard) with my laptop as a dac with a 50p 3.5mm rca cable.

Non believers need their ears testing.

:rofl: Very good, that has brightened a somewhat dull [weather] afternoon. :rofl:

 

[relocated]

Also, agree with several other posters – you don’t need to spend £10,000.

You don't need to spend more than £100k on a house (and you don't need more than one). You don't need to spend more than £10k on a car (and again, you don't need more than one). You don't need to spend more than £200 on an amp. You don't need to spend more than £10 on a watch (or even have a collection). You don't need to spend more than £5 on a t-shirt. But people do, for different reasons. There are benefits, they're just not necessarily benefits that appeal to everyone.

In how many areas of the UK, where anyone would actually want to live, can you get a house for £100k or less? The rest, well........................, no it would be poinless.

 

[John Duncan]

In how many areas of the UK, where anyone would actually want to live, can you get a house for £100k or less?

You are the Daily Mail AICM £5.

 

[BigH]

You don't need to spend more than £100k on a houseble.

That probably depends where you live, Im sure you can get lots around Coventry for that sort of price but not around here, cheapest is about £125,000 but thats only 1 bedroom.

 

[Hoodedcrow]

Whatever you decide maybe looking for a system that is flexible for future upgrades as well as looking for quality of sound.

The way the industry is going at this moment in time is that the line is blurring between AV, Hi-Fi and so on, things will almost certainly become completely digital at some point even though for myself I prefer a physical copy of the media.

Look at a system that allows you to add different zones at a later stage, maybe in your bedroom or kitchen for example, also if you don't already have a dedicated AV system, one that can play movies from your TV giving you more options.

With the kind of budget you have I can't begin to advise you on your choices, for me it took almost 2 years looking and reading advice to decide that an active system with analogue and digital inputs was the best way to go for me personally.

Take no heed at people who say you shouldn’t spend so much on kit as it is you who will have to live with it not them later.

But do try as already suggested by many people, that you should listen to equipment at different price levels to see if the benefit is worth it for you.

 

[CnoEvil]

Whatever you decide maybe looking for a system that is flexible for future upgrades as well as looking for quality of sound.

The way the industry is going at this moment in time is that the line is blurring between AV, Hi-Fi and so on, things will almost certainly become completely digital at some point even though for myself I prefer a physical copy of the media.

Look at a system that allows you to add different zones at a later stage, maybe in your bedroom or kitchen for example, also if you don't already have a dedicated AV system, one that can play movies from your TV giving you more options.

With the kind of budget you have I can't begin to advise you on your choices, for me it took almost 2 years looking and reading advice to decide that an active system with analogue and digital inputs was the best way to go for me personally.

Take no heed at people who say you shouldn’t spend so much on kit as it is you who will have to live with it not them later.

But do try as already suggested by many people, that you should listen to equipment at different price levels to see if the benefit is worth it for you.

Terrific advice, as versatility allows for future direction changes.

One way to get a handle on VFM is to compare systems (from the same brands) at £2.5k vs £5k vs £10k vs £20k......diminishing returns is a big factor in hifi, but is very personal and subjective.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi aje1979

The following are also worth a look -

Naim Supernait 2, Rega DAC & Focal JM Lab Aria 2

ATC SIA2-150 MK2, Rega DAC & the forthcoming curved SCM40 monitors

Plinius Hiato, Rega DAC, Monitor Audio Platinium PL200 and Focal JM Lab Electra 1028 Be 2

or the active route -

ATC SCM50ASL, Rega DAC & ATC SCA2

ATC SCM50ASL with DAC/Pre amps - Audiolab 8200DQ, Benchmark DAC2 HGC or Resonessence Labs Invicta or the Mirus.

Btw, i just want to be clear that Musicraft does not deal with Benchmark or Resonessence Labs.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[pauln]

im literally totally ignorant to a decent system, coming from a £500 richer sounds Cambridge Audio system but split up with my g/f earlier this year and its time to treat myself... new car or quality sound system.. i know what i'd prefer!!! i'll keep my old banger and enjoy some music!

This may sound radical but what about spending £10k on a kick ass hifi and £10k on a reasonable car?

Why does it have to be either /or? Spending twice as much on the hifi would get you what... 5% improvement? - I'm guessing.

Have both!

 

[Frank Harvey]

You don't need to spend more than £100k on a houseble.

That probably depends where you live, Im sure you can get lots around Coventry for that sort of price but not around here, cheapest is about £125,000 but thats only 1 bedroom.

Nitpicking aside, I'm sure the point is understood.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Spending twice as much on the hifi would get you what... 5% improvement? - I'm guessing.

One way to get a handle on VFM is to compare systems (from the same brands) at £2.5k vs £5k vs £10k vs £20k......diminishing returns is a big factor in hifi, but is very personal and subjective.

The more I hear certain systems, the more I'm inclined to believe that the law of diminishing returns is nowhere near as diminishing as many think. Lots of variables though. I would certainly state that the difference between a £10k and £20k system is much greater than 5%...

 

[Covenanter]

yeah not sure about the studio look, but thanks for the suggestions. how do monitors get on with subtler music styles?

im literally totally ignorant to a decent system, coming from a £500 richer sounds Cambridge Audio system but split up with my g/f earlier this year and its time to treat myself... new car or quality sound system.. i know what i'd prefer!!! i'll keep my old banger and enjoy some music!

Buy the car and get out and meet a new woman!

Chris

We know you bought a new car recently, Chris. Anything else you want to share?

I'm too old to be looking for a new woman!

Chris

 

[steve_1979]

You don't need to spend more than £100k on a houseble.

That probably depends where you live, Im sure you can get lots around Coventry for that sort of price but not around here, cheapest is about £125,000 but thats only 1 bedroom.

You can get a nice 2 bedroom detatched house in France for £20,000. I call them 'credit card houses' because you could afford buy one on a credit card.

It puts some of the audiophile hifi prices into perspective. :?

 

[steve_1979]

Here's a bargain. Some half price Adam Audio Tensor Gamma Mk1 active speakers for £6,750. http://www.audiodestination.co.uk/adam-audio-tensor-gamma-mk-ii-fully-active-loudspeakers-black

 

[CnoEvil]

You can get a nice 2 bedroom detatched house in France for £20,000. I call them 'credit card houses' because you could afford buy one on a credit card.

It puts some of the audiophile hifi prices into perspective. :?

Brilliant....It's amazing what you learn on a hifi forum.

What area/s are these to be found......not buying, just interested in case my house gets eaten by rot again. :wall:

 

[CnoEvil]

Here's a bargain. Some half price Adam Audio Tensor Gamma Mk1 active speakers for £6,750. http://www.audiodestination.co.uk/adam-audio-tensor-gamma-mk-ii-fully-active-loudspeakers-black

Nice find.......will need a very good source to back it up though. :shifty: