speaker cable required

[S83 Trike]

I am looking to upgrade my speaker cable between my Quad 909 and ATC 11 speakers - single wire only recommended cable please [ don't believe bi wire actually works]..........

Budget is approx £50 for 4 mts [2 mts per speaker]

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

Do you not have any electronic market in your vincinty that sellls cables ? Or do you search some special looking type of cable ?

 

[Chris Firth]

http://www.doncastercables.com/cables/4/54/Flexibles/PVC-Insulated---Sheathed-Flexible-Cords---Light-Duty/

 

[Covenanter]

Maplin's cable is fine although I doubt you will hear any difference.

Chris

 

[chebby]

Van Damme Blue 2x2.5mm2 (or 2x4mm2 for long runs).

This set of 2x4mm2 Van Damme Blue (two terminated 2.5 metre lengths) with soldered plugs is only £1 over your budget ...

clicky

2x4mm2 (number of - and cross sectional area of - the copper conductors in each cable) is probably slight 'overkill' but it won't break the bank and you'll never be thinking ... "I wonder if I should have bought the thicker one".

 

[drummerman]

I can't comment on the VanDamned but i would up my budget a little and buy VdH CS122 Hybrid.

Not elaborate considering the system you have.

 

[S83 Trike]

Van Damme Blue 2x2.5mm2 (or 2x4mm2 for long runs).

This set of 2x4mm2 Van Damme Blue (two terminated 2.5 metre lengths) with soldered plugs is only £1 over your budget ...

clicky

2x4mm2 (number of - and cross sectional area of - the copper conductors in each cable) is probably slight 'overkill' but it won't break the bank and you'll never be thinking ... "I wonder if I should have bought the thicker one".

Took a punt and purchased some Van Damme 4mm - I have always a bit doubious regarding cables!

 

[Andrewjvt]

The thickest 500 strand ofc copper cable available and you will be happy i promise

 

[woodbino]

I agree with the maplins idea. Simple decent speaker cable is just fine. Doesn't have to be branded. Don't pay for expensive stuff. Makes no difference whatsoever. Impossible. Science and evidence says so. Besides, your ears and brain can't tell any difference.

I know this is a touchy subject amogst this readership.

I wish common sense prevails. Alas it can sometimes be lacking.

Of course, you could spend more than a tenner, if it makes you feel better then it's worth it. It won't make your system sound any different however.

Best wishes.

 

[drummerman]

To the best of my knowledge, signal flows mostly at the outer circumference of a cable with the inner/core mostly unused (any cable/thickness). This is more pronounced the higher the frequency. Some manufacturers use hollow cores with conducturs wound around it to mitigate this.

I don't think you need thick cable (a milimeter is probably plenty enough for average home length hifi runs without exhibiting audible resistance) for good bass but the material used both for the conductor and insulation is important as is configuration. Imo, the most likely scenario, when using thinner cabling is that you loose high frequencies (treble) and the cable will/can be perceived as sounding smoother rather than bass light. That at least has been my experience contrary to the common belief that thin cables lack bass.

PVC is not an ideal insulator but silver plating (or pure silver conductors) are arguably the best conductors (silver has some of the highest conductivity and doesn't loose it when tarnished either) ... it certainly doesn't do any harm.

Perhaps this explaines why I like the afromentioned VdH CS122 Hybrid. It follows good practice both with conductors and insulation. The only trick missed is perhaps a hollow core (as per some QED's which, technically and probably materially, should rank as some of the best cables available. They also publish measurements for each of their cables). Configuration is spaced rather than twisted, which has both some benefits and downfalls.

I am not a cable expert and the above simply reflects my preferences and limited experience. I also remember the very capable PaulMiller quoting that he personally would stick with silver plated copper. He has conducted numerous tests/measurements into cabling.

So, to sum up, imho you should use a thinner cable if you find your current sound to bright rather than a thicker cable to make up for any perceived shortfall in bass.

As always with cables, they may be used as very subtle tone controls but that's all.

 

[Andrewjvt]

To the best of my knowledge, signal flows mostly at the outer circumference of a cable with the inner/core mostly unused (any cable/thickness). This is more pronounced the higher the frequency. Some manufacturers use hollow cores with conducturs wound around it to mitigate this.

I don't think you need thick cable (a milimeter is probably plenty enough for average home length hifi runs without exhibiting audible resistance) for good bass but the material used both for the conductor and insulation is important as is configuration. Imo, the most likely scenario, when using thinner cabling is that you loose high frequencies (treble) and the cable will/can be perceived as sounding smoother rather than bass light. That at least has been my experience contrary to the common belief that thin cables lack bass.

PVC is not an ideal insulator but silver plating (or pure silver conductors) are arguably the best conductors (silver has some of the highest conductivity and doesn't loose it when tarnished either) ... it certainly doesn't do any harm.

Perhaps this explaines why I like the afromentioned VdH CS122 Hybrid. It follows good practice both with conductors and insulation. The only trick missed is perhaps a hollow core (as per some QED's which, technically and probably materially, should rank as some of the best cables available. They also publish measurements for each of their cables). Configuration is spaced rather than twisted, which has both some benefits and downfalls.

I am not a cable expert and the above simply reflects my preferences and limited experience. I also remember the very capable PaulMiller quoting that he personally would stick with silver plated copper. He has conducted numerous tests/measurements into cabling.

So, to sum up, imho you should use a thinner cable if you find your current sound to bright rather than a thicker cable to make up for any perceived shortfall in bass.

As always with cables, they may be used as very subtle tone controls but that's all.

When i changed from qed xt to the thick 500 ofc it made a noticable difference

 

[chebby]

A twisted pair of RS 56 Strand cables was considered pretty 'racy' 35 years ago. Then it was QED 79 strand (still on sale and still good).

People need to look at the wiring used inside their expensive equipment to get an idea of what most manufacturers think of the 'boutique' stuff.

I'm not averse to a reasonable thickness/gauge/cross-sectional area of high-purity copper but that's it really. (Oh, and make the PVC jacket a funky colour other than grey or white or black.)

 

[Andrewjvt]

A twisted pair of RS 56 Strand cables was considered pretty 'racy' 35 years ago. Then it was QED 79 strand (still on sale and still good).

People need to look at the wiring used inside their expensive equipment to get an idea of what most manufacturers think of the 'boutique' stuff.

I'm not averse to a reasonable thickness/gauge/cross-sectional area of high-purity copper but that's it really. (Oh, and make the PVC jacket a funky colour other than grey or white or black.)

The arrow

 

[Covenanter]

To the best of my knowledge, signal flows mostly at the outer circumference of a cable with the inner/core mostly unused (any cable/thickness). This is more pronounced the higher the frequency. Some manufacturers use hollow cores with conducturs wound around it to mitigate this.

I don't think you need thick cable (a milimeter is probably plenty enough for average home length hifi runs without exhibiting audible resistance) for good bass but the material used both for the conductor and insulation is important as is configuration. Imo, the most likely scenario, when using thinner cabling is that you loose high frequencies (treble) and the cable will/can be perceived as sounding smoother rather than bass light. That at least has been my experience contrary to the common belief that thin cables lack bass.

PVC is not an ideal insulator but silver plating (or pure silver conductors) are arguably the best conductors (silver has some of the highest conductivity and doesn't loose it when tarnished either) ... it certainly doesn't do any harm.

Perhaps this explaines why I like the afromentioned VdH CS122 Hybrid. It follows good practice both with conductors and insulation. The only trick missed is perhaps a hollow core (as per some QED's which, technically and probably materially, should rank as some of the best cables available. They also publish measurements for each of their cables). Configuration is spaced rather than twisted, which has both some benefits and downfalls.

I am not a cable expert and the above simply reflects my preferences and limited experience. I also remember the very capable PaulMiller quoting that he personally would stick with silver plated copper. He has conducted numerous tests/measurements into cabling.

So, to sum up, imho you should use a thinner cable if you find your current sound to bright rather than a thicker cable to make up for any perceived shortfall in bass.

As always with cables, they may be used as very subtle tone controls but that's all.

This just isn't true! Current flows through all parts of a cable. At very high frequencies, way, way, way above audio frequencies, there is a skin effect. There is no such effect at hifi frequencies.

No double blind test or any scientific measurement has ever found any difference between properly constructed hifi cables. Any company reported to the ASA for making claims about cables has had to withdraw their ads because they can't substantiate them. If you hear a difference it's all in your mind and not real.

But feel free to spend your money.

Chris

 

[chebby]

A twisted pair of RS 56 Strand cables was considered pretty 'racy' 35 years ago. Then it was QED 79 strand (still on sale and still good).

People need to look at the wiring used inside their expensive equipment to get an idea of what most manufacturers think of the 'boutique' stuff.

I'm not averse to a reasonable thickness/gauge/cross-sectional area of high-purity copper but that's it really. (Oh, and make the PVC jacket a funky colour other than grey or white or black.)

The arrow

Loudspeaker cables are not diodes. They don't need arrows.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

If we can hear increased bass or smoother treble etc, since our ears are only capable of resolving differences of db's, it is clear that instruments could very easily measure these differences. Yet no simple measurements are presented to support these claims. Often the claim of better bass (etc) is given as a reason for buying a particular cable yet even manufacturers don't make this claim let alone give evidence. The only magic here is the amazingly complex brain over which we have little control.

 

[DIB]

Van Damme Blue 2x2.5mm2 (or 2x4mm2 for long runs).

This set of 2x4mm2 Van Damme Blue (two terminated 2.5 metre lengths) with soldered plugs is only £1 over your budget ...

clicky

2x4mm2 (number of - and cross sectional area of - the copper conductors in each cable) is probably slight 'overkill' but it won't break the bank and you'll never be thinking ... "I wonder if I should have bought the thicker one".

The supplier, A1 Sound is top drawer. I ordered a shorter pair of terminated UP-LCOFC speaker cables yesterday lunchtime and they arrived in the post this morning. I don't think youi can beat that for service.

.

 

[drummerman]

This just isn't true! Current flows through all parts of a cable. At very high frequencies, way, way, way above audio frequencies, there is a skin effect. There is no such effect at hifi frequencies.

No double blind test or any scientific measurement has ever found any difference between properly constructed hifi cables. Any company reported to the ASA for making claims about cables has had to withdraw their ads because they can't substantiate them. If you hear a difference it's all in your mind and not real.

But feel free to spend your money.

Chris

What nonsense covenanter.

I have a few magazines (HifiNews &RR) where measurements have been conducted (Paul Miller/MillerAudioResearch) in cable tests. Most measure different from each other!

Whether you agree that these differences are audible is another issue but don't state rubbish like that, no offense. - At least mention that this is your opinion rather than implying it is a fact.

Happy weekend children ;-) x

 

[Covenanter]

This just isn't true! Current flows through all parts of a cable. At very high frequencies, way, way, way above audio frequencies, there is a skin effect. There is no such effect at hifi frequencies.

No double blind test or any scientific measurement has ever found any difference between properly constructed hifi cables. Any company reported to the ASA for making claims about cables has had to withdraw their ads because they can't substantiate them. If you hear a difference it's all in your mind and not real.

But feel free to spend your money.

Chris

What nonsense covenanter.

I have a few magazines (HifiNews &RR) where measurements have been conducted (Paul Miller/MillerAudioResearch) in cable tests. Most measure different from each other!

Whether you agree that these differences are audible is another issue but don't state rubbish like that, no offense. - At least mention that this is your opinion rather than implying it is a fact.

Happy weekend children ;-) x

Ok I simplified but there are no differences that could possibly be significant! If a speaker cable is properly made it will have a measurable but low resistance and a measurable but tiny capacitance and inductance. Both the capacitance and inductance are too small to have any audible effect at hifi frequencies.

If this weren't the case people would be able to detect differences in blind tests.

Chris

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I think the point was that there is no evidence of measured differences in output - not physical properties.

 

[drummerman]

This just isn't true! Current flows through all parts of a cable. At very high frequencies, way, way, way above audio frequencies, there is a skin effect. There is no such effect at hifi frequencies.

No double blind test or any scientific measurement has ever found any difference between properly constructed hifi cables. Any company reported to the ASA for making claims about cables has had to withdraw their ads because they can't substantiate them. If you hear a difference it's all in your mind and not real.

But feel free to spend your money.

Chris

What nonsense covenanter.

I have a few magazines (HifiNews &RR) where measurements have been conducted (Paul Miller/MillerAudioResearch) in cable tests. Most measure different from each other!

Whether you agree that these differences are audible is another issue but don't state rubbish like that, no offense. - At least mention that this is your opinion rather than implying it is a fact.

Happy weekend children ;-) x

Ok I simplified but there are no differences that could possibly be significant! If a speaker cable is properly made it will have a measurable but low resistance and a measurable but tiny capacitance and inductance. Both the capacitance and inductance are too small to have any audible effect at hifi frequencies.

If this weren't the case people would be able to detect differences in blind tests.

Chris

Ah, the blind test, that curious animal so beloved by the hifi community and yet, very few actually have ever participated in one.

Those that have usually travel to unfamiliar places, listening to unfamiliar systems playing unfamiliar music (as I have once at WHtowers).

I do question the validity of these 'blind' tests somewhat unless they take place at your home, with your system and your music. But then, who conducts the tests?

I give you that differences in cables are minimal and unless you are completely 'tuned in' could potentially easily be overlooked (listened).

I think the effect is often over stated but that doesn't mean it's not there imho.

If you can't hear it then I respect that and I'm sure your wallet will too.

 

[andyjm]

Rather like the weeds in my garden, you go away for a few weeks and all the nonsense sprouts again.

Speaker cables aren't filters. Anyone with the slightest background in electronics or physics (a GCSE will do) will be able to figure out that the only thing that matters with speaker cable is resistance. A decent, 2.5mmsq cable will do for all applications except extremely high outputs or very long lengths.

Everything else is just marketing or expectation bias.

As I have posted many times, a link to technical analysis that shows speaker cable differences (of similar cross sectional area) will be audible, or an independent blind test of cables that show the ability of listeners to differentiate between cables of similar construction would change my view. Until then, it is all just noise.