Soundcard digital output quality

malthus80

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I am making this query on behalf of a friend who wants to output lossless rips digitally from his computer to the dac of a Cambridge audio 740c. He has read that many soundcards interfere with the audio before it goes through the digital out and can often impose some degree of compression. He doesn't find this acceptable in the hifi domain. Is this the case with soundcards? He has been pointed in the direction of the musical fidelity v link which apparently sends an unmolested output via usb. Would thus be a superior option for his use? Any advice on this would be much appreciated. Many thanks
 

malthus80

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iMark said:
I think this discussion will interest you. There are several ways to bypass Windows audio controls.

[LINK REMOVED - house rules]

Many thanks for the link. I'm sure my friend will find it very useful. Much appreciated
 
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Anonymous

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Generally soundcards (with a few pro-audio exceptions like the Lynx AES-16) can't compete with external converters (or dacs). This can be because of power regulation/noise issues or hardware/software drivers.

Some of the usual suspects for recommended "usb converters" are:

- Musical Fidelity v-link 2

- m2tech hiface

- Halide Bridge

More expensive ones include the m2tech evo & weiss int-202 but at that price you'd be better off upgrading the cambridge audio.

Alternatively, get away from using a computer altogether and use a media streamer such as sonos, logitech, musical fidelity streamers.
 
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peteAllen said:
Generally soundcards (with a few pro-audio exceptions like the Lynx AES-16) can't compete with external converters (or dacs). This can be because of power regulation/noise issues or hardware/software drivers.
...which is mostly moot if you're using a soundcard's digital output. Issues with sound cards can roughly be divided in two categories:

- analog audio quality. This is determined by the soundcard's DAC stage, the pc's power supply and the amount of interference/shielding in the case.

- bitstream latency (for want of a better word). Most soundcards should be capable of handling a continuous, jitter-free bitstream but this depends also on processor speed, system load and (again) power supply quality.

The former doesn't apply if you're only using the soundcard's digital output. The latter can be mitigated by a reclocking interface like the MF V-link, but only up to a certain level. Most modern hifi DACs shouldn't need it, not sure about older models. Of course, using a USB-connected hifi DAC bypasses the PC's soundcard completely.
 
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tremon said:
analog audio quality. This is determined by the soundcard's DAC stage, the pc's power supply and the amount of interference/shielding in the case.

No, power/noise issues will affect digital electronics too. As an example, upgrading the power cable or conditioning on a cd transport will improve the sound.

tremon said:
bitstream latency (for want of a better word). Most soundcards should be capable of handling a continuous, jitter-free bitstream but this depends also on processor speed, system load and (again) power supply quality.

They should, but they unfortunately don't. There is jitter inherent in the way this is done in computers, including coaxial & AES standards, except when transmiting the word clock as an input or output and do it asynchronously so that the dac can reclock perfectly.

tremon said:
The latter can be mitigated by a reclocking interface like the MF V-link, but only up to a certain level. Most modern hifi DACs shouldn't need it, not sure about older models. Of course, using a USB-connected hifi DAC bypasses the PC's soundcard completely.

I thought all dacs will reclock unless they synchronise word clock as master or slave?

I don't understand the logic that older dacs are necessarily less capable
 
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Anonymous

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peteAllen said:
tremon said:
analog audio quality. This is determined by the soundcard's DAC stage, the pc's power supply and the amount of interference/shielding in the case.

No, power/noise issues will affect digital electronics too. As an example, upgrading the power cable or conditioning on a cd transport will improve the sound.
Note that I didn't say anything about digital electronics here :)

But if you're arguing that noise in a digital component will manifest as noise in the analog signal, I must disappoint you: I respectfully disagree. Power/noise issues might manifest as jitter but nothing else.

peteAllen said:
I thought all dacs will reclock unless they synchronise word clock as master or slave?

I don't understand the logic that older dacs are necessarily less capable
Not necessarily. S/Pdif is a self-clocking signal, reclocking is normally not needed. Tthe sender is the master clock, and the receiver simply latches on to that signal. If you have multiple senders, they must be synchronized hence the need for master/slave clocks.

I was under the assumption that modern DACs (at least the ones with USB) always perform buffering on the incoming signal. Buffering mitigates jitter because the DAC then no longer depends on the external signal clock. Granted, I don't know how many usb dacs perform buffering on their non-usb inputs...
 
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Anonymous

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lazar1980 said:
I`m using foobar with wasapi plugin and my motherboards optical out straight to my speakers.
Your speakers have an optical input? :quest:
 

noogle

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DACs usually recover the clock from the S/PDIF signal using a long time-constant phase locked loop (PLL). Unfortunately this means that the clock is modulated slightly by the data stream. An increasing number of buffered, asynchronous DACs are available which use an on-board clock. These should totally isolate the DAC from any source clock jitter or frequency issues.
 

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