So who won the great bake off?

[lindsayt]

I'm sorry lpv.

I thought that on the day it you'd made it clear that you thought that the EV system was the overall best - as in most realistic sounding system?

On the day, I never heard you say that you thought that the AVI's or ATC's sounded best overall?

Next time you're at a bake-off with me, please feel free to say on the day, exactly what you're going to say afterwards on any hi-fi forums.

After all it's only hi-fi. It's not like it's anything really important.

 

[lpv]

Lindsay, did you not hear me saying: I could live with any of them?

on the day I did not say Ev is a winner or anything like that, I've made comments ( ie piano sounded more real on Evs)

I was surprised when you started this thread ( as well as similar thread on hifi subjectivist forum) and you've announced winner and that this was our overall conclusion. Anything like that simply did not happen on the day. Do we have agreement on that?

 

[lindsayt]

Sorry lpv, my assumption when you said that piano sounded more real on the EV system was that you thought that that system was the most realistic overall.

After all, pianos are an excellent true test of how good a system sounds. And therefore at any bake-off the system that's best at recreating the sound of a piano is pretty much nailed on to be the best sounding system.

And then there was the pm that you sent me on Saturday evening that reinforced my impression that you thought that the EV system was the best sounding system.

If you thought that the AVI system produced an overall more realistic sound then that's something that I won't argue with.

 

[lpv]

If you thought that the AVI system produced an overall more realistic sound then that's something that I won't argue with.

I did not say that or I do not think that either *preved*

btw, I've said all I wanted to say about the meeting/ my impressions etc and I'm not going to fall into typical for this forum mantra of repeating same thing 100 times and then 100 times again *ok*

 

[ID.]

What suprised me was the clarity of the Ev sentry. I thought that they would sound 'big' and 'unrefined' but was amazed by the quality. They certainly make the music sound like its playing live in your house. Very nice sound and all from a 1.8w amp.

The fact that they sounded the best is no way a reflection on my hegel amp. In fact we even wanted to hook it up to the sentrys but the connections were different and we were all tired by then.

The atcs did not sound bad. Just less clear in direct comparison.

The avis are very clear speakers but more smooth than the ev sentrys which in turn adds to the real live in the room in direct comparison with the sentrys comming out more direct with pianno and vilolin etc and sounding more in the room live real. They all sounded good though and there are no bad choice here imo.

On there own all 3 systems were very high quality and i felt that the atcs improved over last time.

The avis £200 sub sounded much better this time around and the avis sound a lot bigger than they are. Think of it as a 40 pound bull terrier scrapping with a 160 pound rottie.

Ive already wrote my thoughts in the first thread and they still stand.

So now ill build those massive k100 kit speakers and we will have to have another test once they are built next year.

Purely in the context of the test, could it not be that the synergy between the Hegel and ATCs is a little off kilter?

We know that system synergy far outweighs star ratings and awards. I would guess that ATC amplification with the 11s would be a better match in such a tight test.

In isolation, though, Hegel and 11s would be all that anyone would need.

Clearly the so-called testers are being evasive. "Thanks for the informative test..." How can it be valid without commenting on the Hegel/ATC combo.

I'm out of this thread.

i don't know why some people are getting so wound up and talking about how there "test" can be "valid".

Its not like it's claiming to be some kind of final word on anything. Just a few guys who got together and shared their subjective impressions of what they heard. Nothing prescriptive that prescribes that from this day forward the only valid choice is actives, or sealed box speakers, or massive old speakers.

Just a bit of fun, but if people want to see it as propaganda with some agenda or project their own agenda onto it, go ahead.

It's great they're taking up time to test different systems. I'm just perplexed why the Hegel/ATC have been largely ignored. Andrew has now spilled a few more beans but given there's 140-odd posts the reasons behind the Hegel's failure is sparse. Don't forget that some people might be deciding on a next upgrade, and looking at this thread as a pointer (not me, though).

I think it was mentioned earlier, that they've concentrated on the other two because they preferred the sound and to them they were clearly better on the day. Perhaps also because they'd already done the ATC/Hegel combo in their previous testing. It's cool that you are interested in the performance of the Hegel/ATC combo, but I don't think you can get paranoid about there being some kind of hidden agenda when others don't share your interest.

It sounds like there isn't much to say. They said it sounded good, so I don't think there is anything one could really fault the speakers for. Maybe a lack of bottom end extension, and maybe they could've run them with a sub, too. It's just that, using that as the base, the other speakers were better in the areas specified.

 

[Andrewjvt]

What suprised me was the clarity of the Ev sentry. I thought that they would sound 'big' and 'unrefined' but was amazed by the quality. They certainly make the music sound like its playing live in your house. Very nice sound and all from a 1.8w amp.

The fact that they sounded the best is no way a reflection on my hegel amp. In fact we even wanted to hook it up to the sentrys but the connections were different and we were all tired by then.

The atcs did not sound bad. Just less clear in direct comparison.

The avis are very clear speakers but more smooth than the ev sentrys which in turn adds to the real live in the room in direct comparison with the sentrys comming out more direct with pianno and vilolin etc and sounding more in the room live real. They all sounded good though and there are no bad choice here imo.

On there own all 3 systems were very high quality and i felt that the atcs improved over last time.

The avis £200 sub sounded much better this time around and the avis sound a lot bigger than they are. Think of it as a 40 pound bull terrier scrapping with a 160 pound rottie.

Ive already wrote my thoughts in the first thread and they still stand.

So now ill build those massive k100 kit speakers and we will have to have another test once they are built next year.

Purely in the context of the test, could it not be that the synergy between the Hegel and ATCs is a little off kilter?

We know that system synergy far outweighs star ratings and awards. I would guess that ATC amplification with the 11s would be a better match in such a tight test. 

In isolation, though, Hegel and 11s would be all that anyone would need.

Clearly the so-called testers are being evasive. "Thanks for the informative test..." How can it be valid without commenting on the Hegel/ATC combo.

I'm out of this thread.

 

i don't know why some people are getting so wound up and talking about how there "test" can be "valid". 

Its not like it's claiming to be some kind of final word on anything. Just a few guys who got together and shared their subjective impressions of what they heard. Nothing prescriptive that prescribes that from this day forward the only valid choice is actives, or sealed box speakers, or massive old speakers. 

Just a bit of fun, but if people want to see it as propaganda with some agenda or project their own agenda onto it, go ahead. 

It's great they're taking up time to test different systems. I'm just perplexed why the Hegel/ATC have been largely ignored. Andrew has now spilled a few more beans but given there's 140-odd posts the reasons behind the Hegel's failure is sparse. Don't forget that some people might be deciding on a next upgrade, and looking at this thread as a pointer (not me, though).

I think it was mentioned earlier, that they've concentrated on the other two because they preferred the sound and to them they were clearly better on the day. Perhaps also because they'd already done the ATC/Hegel combo in their previous testing. It's cool that you are interested in the performance of the Hegel/ATC combo, but I don't think you can get paranoid about there being some kind of hidden agenda when others don't share your interest.

It sounds like there isn't much to say. They said it sounded good, so I don't think there is anything one could really fault the speakers for. Maybe a lack of bottom end extension, and maybe they could've run them with a sub, too. It's just that, using that as the base, the other speakers were better in the areas specified.

Darius' sub sounded very good and the evs have 15inch bass drivers.

By the time ive built the k100 kits next year, i think i may have done enough to restore balance. Then we test again.

This has been on my to do list since last march. Although its been a while since i last heard them, i can clearly remember feeling a rush after listening.

 

[Andrewjvt]

It's great they're taking up time to test different systems. I'm just perplexed why the Hegel/ATC have been largely ignored. Andrew has now spilled a few more beans but given there's 140-odd posts the reasons behind the Hegel's failure is sparse. Don't forget that some people might be deciding on a next upgrade, and looking at this thread as a pointer (not me, though).

I think it's not so much the "Hegel's failure", but rather the performance of the ATCs we're talking about here. Hegel are not designing their amps to have any specific sound signature. They're designing them to sound neutral, and to make the speakers sound their best. They're very explicit about this, actually. They think people should choose the sound signature they prefer in their speakers, and then use a Hegel amp to get out exactly the sound signature that the speakers have.

Loudspeakers are much more than important than amplifiers when it comes to how things sound. A testament to that is that EVs were the speakers who sounded best in this bake-off, even when driven by a really old (and according to Lindsay) bad amp.

He knows that and its been explained a 1000 times but he gets off repeating it. The amps in this test imo had little bearing on the results. It was not an amp test. We may have been able to switch amps around also possibly imo.

Next he wont be able to resist mentioning 'the leema' soon.

Wondered how long it would take before jumping out of your pram. I was asking a very pertinent question. You can rest assured, though, you own the runt of the pack, despite Hegel's overseas awards (something you kept banging on about months and months ago).

If the ATCs are holding back the Hegel, then I was right -- the synergy isn't all that.

If every component is in total harmony -- hitting the sweet spot -- the cost is irrelevent.

Consider it more of frustration of you completely unable to grasp the point being made despite many attempts to explain.

So your saying if an amp and speaker has this magical synergy then they have the right to beat any other make of speaker?
So how do you know about this magical synergy regarding the other speakers etc?

So what now if we hooked up the hegel to the senteys and they sounded even better? What then?

Its just crazy talk based on nothing real. This was not a test of amps.
I could prove it if you were prepared to put your money where your mouth is. But i suspect you just use it a chance to throw cheap shots at hegel for some reason. Oh almost forgot thats what you like doing

 

[plastic penguin]

It's great they're taking up time to test different systems. I'm just perplexed why the Hegel/ATC have been largely ignored. Andrew has now spilled a few more beans but given there's 140-odd posts the reasons behind the Hegel's failure is sparse. Don't forget that some people might be deciding on a next upgrade, and looking at this thread as a pointer (not me, though).

I think it's not so much the "Hegel's failure", but rather the performance of the ATCs we're talking about here. Hegel are not designing their amps to have any specific sound signature. They're designing them to sound neutral, and to make the speakers sound their best. They're very explicit about this, actually. They think people should choose the sound signature they prefer in their speakers, and then use a Hegel amp to get out exactly the sound signature that the speakers have.

Loudspeakers are much more than important than amplifiers when it comes to how things sound. A testament to that is that EVs were the speakers who sounded best in this bake-off, even when driven by a really old (and according to Lindsay) bad amp.

He knows that and its been explained a 1000 times but he gets off repeating it. The amps in this test imo had little bearing on the results. It was not an amp test. We may have been able to switch amps around also possibly imo.

Next he wont be able to resist mentioning 'the leema' soon.

Wondered how long it would take before jumping out of your pram. I was asking a very pertinent question. You can rest assured, though, you own the runt of the pack, despite Hegel's overseas awards (something you kept banging on about months and months ago).

If the ATCs are holding back the Hegel, then I was right -- the synergy isn't all that.

If every component is in total harmony -- hitting the sweet spot -- the cost is irrelevent.

Consider it more of frustration of you completely unable to grasp the point being made despite many attempts to explain.

So your saying if an amp and speaker has this magical synergy then they have the right to beat any other make of speaker? So how do you know about this magical synergy regarding the other speakers etc?

So what now if we hooked up the hegel to the senteys and they sounded even better? What then?

Its just crazy talk based on nothing real. This was not a test of amps. I could prove it if you were prepared to put your money where your mouth is. But i suspect you just use it a chance to throw cheap shots at hegel for some reason. Oh almost forgot thats what you like doing

If you read my previous post I did say "if the ATCs are holding the Hegel back...." and not the other way round. No cheap shots at Hegel or any other brand.

Synergy isn't just about tonal balance. Synergy also means how each component helps to express the other, hence my suggestion about the ATCs holding back the Hegel.

Just remind us all: How much did the Hegel H160 cost? Ah, and how much to upgrade to the 360? what is the price for the ATCs?

Thought so: Yet your costly upgrades gets whammed by two systems costing a fraction of yours, and one amp which the person said "The Creek amplifier is the worst I've ever owned".

*ROFL*

 

[Andrewjvt]

It's great they're taking up time to test different systems. I'm just perplexed why the Hegel/ATC have been largely ignored. Andrew has now spilled a few more beans but given there's 140-odd posts the reasons behind the Hegel's failure is sparse. Don't forget that some people might be deciding on a next upgrade, and looking at this thread as a pointer (not me, though).

I think it's not so much the "Hegel's failure", but rather the performance of the ATCs we're talking about here. Hegel are not designing their amps to have any specific sound signature. They're designing them to sound neutral, and to make the speakers sound their best. They're very explicit about this, actually. They think people should choose the sound signature they prefer in their speakers, and then use a Hegel amp to get out exactly the sound signature that the speakers have.

Loudspeakers are much more than important than amplifiers when it comes to how things sound. A testament to that is that EVs were the speakers who sounded best in this bake-off, even when driven by a really old (and according to Lindsay) bad amp.

He knows that and its been explained a 1000 times but he gets off repeating it. The amps in this test imo had little bearing on the results. It was not an amp test. We may have been able to switch amps around also possibly imo.

Next he wont be able to resist mentioning 'the leema' soon.

Wondered how long it would take before jumping out of your pram. I was asking a very pertinent question. You can rest assured, though, you own the runt of the pack, despite Hegel's overseas awards (something you kept banging on about months and months ago).

If the ATCs are holding back the Hegel, then I was right -- the synergy isn't all that.

If every component is in total harmony -- hitting the sweet spot -- the cost is irrelevent.

Consider it more of frustration of you completely unable to grasp the point being made despite many attempts to explain.

So your saying if an amp and speaker has this magical synergy then they have the right to beat any other make of speaker? So how do you know about this magical synergy regarding the other speakers etc?

So what now if we hooked up the hegel to the senteys and they sounded even better? What then?

Its just crazy talk based on nothing real. This was not a test of amps. I could prove it if you were prepared to put your money where your mouth is. But i suspect you just use it a chance to throw cheap shots at hegel for some reason. Oh almost forgot thats what you like doing

If you read my previous post I did say "if the ATCs are holding the Hegel back...." and not the other way round. No cheap shots at Hegel or any other brand.

Synergy isn't just about tonal balance. Synergy also means how each component helps to express the other, hence my suggestion about the ATCs holding back the Hegel.

Just remind us all: How much did the Hegel H160 cost? Ah, and how much to upgrade to the 360? what is the price for the ATCs?

Thought so: Yet your costly upgrades gets whammed by two systems costing a fraction of yours, and one amp which the person said "The Creek amplifier is the worst I've ever owned".

 *ROFL*

So you were there?
Whammed another exaggeration?
The whole spirit of these get togethers has gone right over your head. Its certainly not for a false sense of security.

This why i did not want to share this on the forum.

It seems there are not many interested in hifi as a hobby.

 

[luckylion100]

Were your ATC's the latest version as reviewed by What Hi-Fi, the model that took their 2015 award or an older version? Thanks

http://www.whathifi.com/atc/scm-11-2013/review

 

[Andrewjvt]

Were your ATC's the latest version as reviewed by What Hi-Fi, the model that took their 2015 award or an older version? Thanks

http://www.whathifi.com/atc/scm-11-2013/review

New shape.
they sound very good and i like them

 

[luckylion100]

Were your ATC's the latest version as reviewed by What Hi-Fi, the model that took their 2015 award or an older version? Thanks

http://www.whathifi.com/atc/scm-11-2013/review

New shape. they sound very good and i like them

Was just wondering when the improvements mentioned in the review were made. as there are 2 dates in it, 2013 and then 2015. Thanks for doing the bake-off.

 

[lpv]

Just remind us all: How much did the Hegel H160 cost? Ah, and how much to upgrade to the 360? what is the price for the ATCs?

Thought so: Yet your costly upgrades gets whammed by two systems costing a fraction of yours, and one amp which the person said "The Creek amplifier is the worst I've ever owned".

*ROFL*

malicious comments made by long time posters set bad standards on this forum.

 

[drummerman]

Well, I for one found the get together very interesting.

Thank you all that participated.

 

[luckylion100]

Well, I for one found the get together very interesting.

Thank you all that participated.

+1

Plus the resulting discussion was well mannered compared to recent similar threads.

 

[plastic penguin]

Just remind us all: How much did the Hegel H160 cost? Ah, and how much to upgrade to the 360? what is the price for the ATCs?

Thought so: Yet your costly upgrades gets whammed by two systems costing a fraction of yours, and one amp which the person said "The Creek amplifier is the worst I've ever owned".

*ROFL*

malicious comments made by long time posters set bad standards on this forum.

Not malicious at all. Back on #103 I asked politely:

"Thanks Lindsayt. Like Chebby I'm stunned, although probably for different reasons.

Can I flip this test on its head? What was actually wrong with the Hegel/ATC set-up? Sorry, I've read a number of posts here but no-one has stated the problem with the said kit?"

Then Mr. sarcastic comes back with his usual s####y posts towards me.

There were three systems tested but little was mentioned about the Hegel/ATC combo until I asked.

If you are going to test the pros and cons of three systems let's read the good, the bad and the ugly.

Mr. Sarcastic has just bleated on about the test being fun, but as this is a hi-fi forum, you should expect questions about the aforementioned systems... all three. There's nothing unreasonable about that, is there?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Just remind us all: How much did the Hegel H160 cost? Ah, and how much to upgrade to the 360? what is the price for the ATCs?

Thought so: Yet your costly upgrades gets whammed by two systems costing a fraction of yours, and one amp which the person said "The Creek amplifier is the worst I've ever owned".

 *ROFL*

malicious comments made by long time posters set bad standards on this forum. 

Not malicious at all. Back on #103 I asked politely:

"Thanks Lindsayt. Like Chebby I'm stunned, although probably for different reasons.

Can I flip this test on its head? What was actually wrong with the Hegel/ATC set-up? Sorry, I've read a number of posts here but no-one has stated the problem with the said kit?"

Then Mr. sarcastic comes back with his usual s####y posts towards me. 

There were three systems tested but little was mentioned about the Hegel/ATC combo until I asked.

If you are going to test the pros and cons of three systems let's read the good, the bad and the ugly.

Mr. Sarcastic has just bleated on about the test being fun, but as this is a hi-fi forum, you should expect questions about the aforementioned systems... all three. There's nothing unreasonable about that, is there?

As your motives have an agenda but paint it how you want.

There is nothing wrong with the hegel. So sorry to dissapoint you.

The hegel was imo the best amp in the room.

So sorry now nickpick someone elses 'synergy' there is no story for you here.

 

[Paul.]

Just remind us all: How much did the Hegel H160 cost? Ah, and how much to upgrade to the 360? what is the price for the ATCs?

Thought so: Yet your costly upgrades gets whammed by two systems costing a fraction of yours, and one amp which the person said "The Creek amplifier is the worst I've ever owned".

*ROFL*

malicious comments made by long time posters set bad standards on this forum.

Not malicious at all. Back on #103 I asked politely:

"Thanks Lindsayt. Like Chebby I'm stunned, although probably for different reasons.

Can I flip this test on its head? What was actually wrong with the Hegel/ATC set-up? Sorry, I've read a number of posts here but no-one has stated the problem with the said kit?"

Then Mr. sarcastic comes back with his usual s####y posts towards me.

There were three systems tested but little was mentioned about the Hegel/ATC combo until I asked.

If you are going to test the pros and cons of three systems let's read the good, the bad and the ugly.

Mr. Sarcastic has just bleated on about the test being fun, but as this is a hi-fi forum, you should expect questions about the aforementioned systems... all three. There's nothing unreasonable about that, is there?

its already been explained a few times now that the comments about the Hegel/atc were pretty detailed in the last bake off, this one focuses on the Sentry vs DM10 because that's what the listeners were interested in.

Why not dig up the old thread if that's what you are interested in and let this one follow its natural course?

 

[drummerman]

+ 1

Yup . Three enthusiasts get together and it ends in a forum war.

Only on a hifi forum.

 

[steve_1979]

This raises a philosphical question.

The sound quality of all audio systems is relative.

If the only systems I'd ever heard in my life were my clock radio and my car's audio system I'd be saying how great the car system was when compared to the clock.

This is a good point. I've heard someone say that a pair of £5 Dell computer speakers sound good. They don't, they're cr@p but if you've never listened to a proper hifi how could you know otherwise.

BTW thanks to lindsayt, Andrew and Darius for reporting back in a honest and fair manner. *drinks*

 

[steve_1979]

If at some point in the future, once Andrew has built his ATC clones, you have another 'bake off' it'd be interesting if someone local could lend you an AVI subwoofer to go with the DM10s to see what difference that makes.

The EV Sentry's with a better amplifier vs DM10s with an AVI subwoofer vs ATC clones. Now that really would be an interesting comparison (especially if you also have a pair of good quality headphones there as a reference too).

 

[Andrewjvt]

If at some point in the future, once Andrew has built his ATC clones, you have another 'bake off' it'd be interesting if someone local could lend you an AVI subwoofer to go with the DM10s to see what difference that makes.

The EV Sentry's with a better amplifier vs DM10s with an AVI subwoofer vs ATC clones. Now that really would be an interesting comparison (especially if you also have a pair of good quality headphones there as a reference too).

 

It will only be in the new year as ive loads to sort first.

But id advise you to attend one some day if you can.

 

[plastic penguin]

Just remind us all: How much did the Hegel H160 cost? Ah, and how much to upgrade to the 360? what is the price for the ATCs?

Thought so: Yet your costly upgrades gets whammed by two systems costing a fraction of yours, and one amp which the person said "The Creek amplifier is the worst I've ever owned".

*ROFL*

malicious comments made by long time posters set bad standards on this forum.

Not malicious at all. Back on #103 I asked politely:

"Thanks Lindsayt. Like Chebby I'm stunned, although probably for different reasons.

Can I flip this test on its head? What was actually wrong with the Hegel/ATC set-up? Sorry, I've read a number of posts here but no-one has stated the problem with the said kit?"

Then Mr. sarcastic comes back with his usual s####y posts towards me.

There were three systems tested but little was mentioned about the Hegel/ATC combo until I asked.

If you are going to test the pros and cons of three systems let's read the good, the bad and the ugly.

Mr. Sarcastic has just bleated on about the test being fun, but as this is a hi-fi forum, you should expect questions about the aforementioned systems... all three. There's nothing unreasonable about that, is there?

As your motives have an agenda but paint it how you want.

There is nothing wrong with the hegel. So sorry to dissapoint you.

The hegel was imo the best amp in the room.

So sorry now nickpick someone elses 'synergy' there is no story for you here.

So you're saying your amp is the best. Funny that: Lindsayt first stated you were all in agreement that the Creek/EV was the best. Then IPV said on here he preferred his AVIs. And now you are saying the Hegel.

So you're really not agreeing.

Have NO agenda. What would be my motives? I'm trying to learn more as I've never heard any of the systems tested - in fact I've never heard any active speakers, any Hegel equipment or EV speakers.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Just remind us all: How much did the Hegel H160 cost? Ah, and how much to upgrade to the 360? what is the price for the ATCs?

Thought so: Yet your costly upgrades gets whammed by two systems costing a fraction of yours, and one amp which the person said "The Creek amplifier is the worst I've ever owned".

 *ROFL*

malicious comments made by long time posters set bad standards on this forum. 

Not malicious at all. Back on #103 I asked politely:

"Thanks Lindsayt. Like Chebby I'm stunned, although probably for different reasons.

Can I flip this test on its head? What was actually wrong with the Hegel/ATC set-up? Sorry, I've read a number of posts here but no-one has stated the problem with the said kit?"

Then Mr. sarcastic comes back with his usual s####y posts towards me. 

There were three systems tested but little was mentioned about the Hegel/ATC combo until I asked.

If you are going to test the pros and cons of three systems let's read the good, the bad and the ugly.

Mr. Sarcastic has just bleated on about the test being fun, but as this is a hi-fi forum, you should expect questions about the aforementioned systems... all three. There's nothing unreasonable about that, is there?

As your motives have an agenda but paint it how you want.

There is nothing wrong with the hegel. So sorry to dissapoint you.

The hegel was imo the best amp in the room.

So sorry now nickpick someone elses 'synergy' there is no story for you here.

So you're saying your amp is the best. Funny that: Lindsayt first stated you were all in agreement that the Creek/EV was the best. Then IPV said on here he preferred his AVIs. And now you are saying the Hegel. 

So you're really not agreement.

Have NO agenda. What would be my motives? I'm trying to learn more as I've never heard any of the systems tested - in fact I've never heard any active speakers, any Hegel equipment or EV speakers.

In plain simple childs language. It was not a test of amplifier skills at all.

If you are really interested in amp test you can arrange your own test or wait for colin and i to test hegel (amplifer) v nord (amplifier) class d. SAME SPEAKERS LEVEL MATCHED.
goodbye

 

[hg]

- why the AVIs were preferred to the ATCs: I think the AVIs may have higher quality drivers than the ATCs, for one.

Quality in what respect? The AVI uses a variation of the SB Acoustics standard range driver. It is certainly a good standard range driver, possibly the most cost effective, but it is not a top of the range driver. I know less about the ATC driver which are normally too expensive for me to take much interest but I think it is fairly safe to assume it is good un although possibly with a set of design choices leaning more towards professional use with more emphasis on things like power handling and efficiency. The cone looks to be significantly damped compared to that of the SB driver.

I also think that AVIs get some advantage over the ATCs by the fact that they are active, while the ATCs are passive.

The AVI active crossover is probably an analogue one (it is hard to resist calling it a legacy active crossover!) and so is barely more flexible than a passive crossover in terms of shaping the transfer function. Active crossover have one or two other advantages but given AVI are using 8th order slopes on a flat baffle, probably not using notch filters and probably not accounting for baffle step in a conventional way this is likely to be the stronger influence on the sound rather than anything to do with active or passive. The ATC is likely to have a more conventional "voicing" given it sells into the professional market. But we are not working with much solid information and a lot less than the EV which perhaps illustrates rather well how things have changed over time.

- Why the EVs were preferred to the AVIs: According to all the participants, the main difference was in the midrange. I would have expected it to be in the bass, since the bass driver in the EVs is so much bigger. But it was in the midrange. More forward, less smooth. How to explain that?

The speaker that used a dedicated midrange driver for the midrange rather than forcing the tweeter to work lower than it's comfortable operating range and, particularly, forcing the woofer to work higher than it's comfortable operating range had the best midrange. Why would anybody be surprised by that? The EV is also notable for smoothly matching the directivity across the midrange which can be expected to be a significant benefit to sound quality. The raggedness of the on-axis response is likely to be worse than the 2 ways and so it will not have been all positives.