Silver High Breed ic as a coax.

[admin_exported]

I got the "heads up" from a guy on another forum about using one SHB cable as a coax, and as I had a set of the Synergy 1's doing nothing, I decided to give it a go.

I swapped out the Van Den Hul that had been doing the job between the TLC anti jitter box and Theta dac, and sat back with a few well used songs to listen to.

What an improvement! What I though was already a good sound was lifted to the next level, feel free to enter any cliches here like, bass was better defined and more taut, a sweeter, more well defined top etc...........

The guy that told me about it has outed his Missing Link cryo coax in faviour of the SHB, and thats exactly what Ive done with the VDH, Ive also since utilised the other SHB cable as the digi link from my dvd player (used as a cdp when I dont use the Squeezebox) and outed a fairly expensive Chord in favour of the SHB;

As mentioned elsewhere I use a set of SHB 10 awg speaker cables, and there certainly seems to be great "synergy" going on! (forgive the pun!)

 

[aliEnRIK]

Can you post links to what you speak of please as that reads as a bit of 'techno jargon' to me as it stands

 

[Anonymous]

You say "What an improvement!" it must have sounded really bad before if a single bit of cable can make so much difference. Before this cable was installed, you must have had harsh snappy treble and sloppy slow bass.

How can a cable change a digital signal, ie a stream of 0's and 1's? and made such a huge improvement?

Please explain, I am genuinely interested to find out more.

Cheers Face.

 

[fatboyslimfast]

They seem to be on that auction site for around £30. Hopefully the manf will see this thread and send some to Clare/Andrew for testing...

 

[Anonymous]

fatboyslimfast:They seem to be on that auction site for around £30. Hopefully the manf will see this thread and send some to Clare/Andrew for testing...

I would love to read that review! esp the section explaining exactly how a cable transmitting a digital signal can change the sound.

 

[Anonymous]

Well the place to find them has been sorted, so, just to answer the other queries, I have no idea why it sounds better, it just does!

I agree about why it shouldnt sound different, after all, its just a load of 0's and 1's right?

All I know is that it does, probably in the same way that a lot of folk say that all HDMI cables are the same, I thought they were too, until I tried a Chord lo pro, the picture on the tv was visually better.

All I can say is that replacing the VDH just sounded better, ok, VDH are often referred to as bland and dull but, the SHB walks it!

PS, Isnt it the case that all cable manufacturers would have us believe the more expensive the wire, the better the sound?

And also a lot of reviewers of coax cable have given higher marks to more expensive ones, so if theres no difference in coax cables, why do they (the reviewers) bother?

 

[Don Guess]

I think you mean digital interconnect. Coax is just a type of cable - "coaxial"!!..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coax

 

[Anonymous]

icehockeyboy:

Well the place to find them has been sorted, so, just to answer the other queries, I have no idea why it sounds better, it just does!

I agree about why it shouldnt sound different, after all, its just a load of 0's and 1's right?

All I know is that it does, probably in the same way that a lot of folk say that all HDMI cables are the same, I thought they were too, until I tried a Chord lo pro, the picture on the tv was visually better.

All I can say is that replacing the VDH just sounded better, ok, VDH are often referred to as bland and dull but, the SHB walks it!

PS, Isnt it the case that all cable manufacturers would have us believe the more expensive the wire, the better the sound?

And also a lot of reviewers of coax cable have given higher marks to more expensive ones, so if theres no difference in coax cables, why do they (the reviewers) bother?

"It just does" .....lol............. thanks for explaining that............what a load of rubbish....... its a raw digital signal!

Think about, how can a cable alter (either in a +ve or -ve way) the bass and treble of a digital audio signal. does it add extra Bass 1's and take away unnecessary treble 0's...to improve the sound? the answer is NO, its all in your head, not a chance you could "hear" changes in blind ABX testing.

 

[Anonymous]

theface - if you are experienced in these matters of cables, as your replies would leave others to believe, then please detail your experiences so that others may learn from your vast wealth of knowledge that has helped form your insightful and valuable opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

Icehockeyboy - was the VDH cable you originally used specifically designed for digital applications? if not, then that could explain such a drastic improvement in sound. not that i dont believe cables can influence the way a system sounds...

 

[clearer_audio]

Hello all,

When a coaxial cable is designed for a digital application - within the context of a hi-fi or home cinema system - it will have a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms. This is based upon the output and input impedance of the components which will also be 75 ohms. If the cable and/or connectors do not have a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms then the impedance mismatch will result in reflections, which leads to many undesirable effects, including standing waves. When this happens digtal data transmission is compromised; such a situation may require error correction which affects sound quality. A coaxial cable designed for an analogue application may have a characteristic impedance of 35 ohms which when used in such a digital application would result in significant data reflections.

There are many complex variables involved in digital data transmission and the specification of digital coaxial cables can vary considerably (for example: overall quality of materials used; conductor material and construction; dielectric materials; shielding materials and construction; connector design and materials used) and this does ultimately affect performance.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Darren

 

[Anonymous]

ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit:theface - if you are experienced in these matters of cables, as your replies would leave others to believe, then please detail your experiences so that others may learn from your vast wealth of knowledge that has helped form your insightful and valuable opinion.

My experiences are none of your business....... but for the record, I have no Hifi industry links, no directly related scientific back ground and certainly no way of verifying my "perceived experience" However I do work in the electronics industry and do work with digital signal streams on a daily basis. When I change connecting cables the results (figures on a screen) do not alter!

I am basing my theory on....

a. Personal Listening experience and more importantly...

b. A basic understanding that a cable transmitting DIGITAL code (0's and 1's) cannot alter the signal (asuming manufacturing quality is sufficient to allow the cable to perform as intended) and it certainly can't add or remove bass or add or remove treble as suggested by the OP.

I have never read any feasible explanation as to how a Digital interconnect can change audible characteristics of a digital signal. The question again is....How can a Digital interconnect alter the signal stream consistently, across different recordings, resulting in an identifiable sonic signature. Any sane person with some logical thought should be able to question this subject.

I would be VERY intersed to read a concise and measurable explanation as to how a digital cable can change the signal so to alter the audiable characteristics of the music a micro second prior to being decoded in a DAC. Hence me asking the OP to explain.

Best wishes to all

Rgs
Face

 

[Don Guess]

Good post Face.

I've not heard a good explanation for most of the points you raise either.

 

[Anonymous]

theface:

I have never read any feasible explanation as to how a Digital interconnect can change audible characteristics of a digital signal.

There appears to be a pretty good one right above your post.

EDITED BY MODS - House Rules

Cheers.

 

[bretty]

ChrisMM:theface:
I have never read any feasible explanation as to how a Digital interconnect can change audible characteristics of a digital signal.



There appears to be a pretty good one right above your post.

EDITED BY MODS - House Rules

Cheers.

Ha Ha! Touche!

 

[Anonymous]

bretty:ChrisMM:theface:

I have never read any feasible explanation as to how a Digital interconnect can change audible characteristics of a digital signal.




There appears to be a pretty good one right above your post.

EDITED BY MODS - House Rules

Cheers.

Ha Ha! Touche!

hmmmm .....that explains how a cable out of spec may change the signal,

It does not however explain claims for cables having identifiable IMPROVED sonic / audible signatures as per the OP. The reflections are not going to ignore midrange frequencies / be mutually exclusive to bass and treble and be consistant across all recordings.

Sorry but......What a joke.

 

[Anonymous]

theface:bretty:ChrisMM:theface:

I have never read any feasible explanation as to how a Digital interconnect can change audible characteristics of a digital signal.




There appears to be a pretty good one right above your post.

EDITED BY MODS - House Rules

Cheers.

Ha Ha! Touche!

hmmmm .....that explains how a cable out of spec may change the signal,

It does not however explain claims for cables having identifiable IMPROVED sonic / audible signatures as per the OP. The reflections are not going to ignore midrange frequencies / be mutually exclusive to bass and treble and consistant across all recordings.

What a joke.

Excuse me, but I personally find your tone offensive, and think the mods should take a look. Dismissing valid posts just because you disagree does not warrant a backlash of negative comments and is downright rude. Have some respect for your fellow hifi fans, please.

 

[Anonymous]

Graham_Thomas:theface:bretty:ChrisMM:theface:

I have never read any feasible explanation as to how a Digital interconnect can change audible characteristics of a digital signal.




There appears to be a pretty good one right above your post.

EDITED BY MODS - House Rules

Cheers.

Ha Ha! Touche!

hmmmm .....that explains how a cable out of spec may change the signal,

It does not however explain claims for cables having identifiable IMPROVED sonic / audible signatures as per the OP. The reflections are not going to ignore midrange frequencies / be mutually exclusive to bass and treble and consistant across all recordings.

What a joke.

Excuse me, but I personally find your tone offensive, and think the mods should take a look. Dismissing valid posts just because you disagree does not warrant a backlash of negative comments and is downright rude. Have some respect for your fellow hifi fans, please.

IMHO the only part which could be seen as offensive is "what a joke" for that and only that I apologise if I have caused any offence.

 

[aliEnRIK]

theface:bretty:ChrisMM:theface:

I have never read any feasible explanation as to how a Digital interconnect can change audible characteristics of a digital signal.




There appears to be a pretty good one right above your post.

EDITED BY MODS - House Rules

Cheers.

Ha Ha! Touche!

hmmmm .....that explains how a cable out of spec may change the signal,

It does not however explain claims for cables having identifiable IMPROVED sonic / audible signatures as per the OP. The reflections are not going to ignore midrange frequencies / be mutually exclusive to bass and treble and be consistant across all recordings.

Sorry but......What a joke.


I also take offense to that.

And in answer ~ JITTER

(taken from a reliable hifi source)

"

What caused this reduction in measured jitter?

Changing the direction of the digital interconnect between the transport and the jitter analyzer.

This phenomenon was easily repeatable: put the cable in one direction
and read the RMS jitter voltage, then reverse the cable direction and
watch the RMS jitter voltage drop. Although I'd heard differences in
digital-cable directionality, I was surprised the difference in jitter
was so easily measurable-and that the jitter difference was nearly double.

To confirm this phenomenon, I repeated the test five times each on
three different digital interconnects. One was a generic audio cable,
the other two were Mod Squad Wonder Link and Aural Symphonics Digital
Standard, both highly regarded cables specifically designed for digital
transmission. The generic cable wasn't directional: it produced the
same high jitter in either direction. But both the Wonder Link and the
Aural Symphonics had lower jitter levels overall, but different jitter
levels depending on their direction. Moreover, the generic cable had
higher jitter than either of the two premium cables-even in the
latters' "high-jitter" direction."

"There is now no question that jitter in CD transports and digital
interfaces affects digital audio sound quality. Not only do different
transports and interfaces sound different, they produce varying amounts
of jitter and have their own "jitter signatures," seen in the jitter's
spectral distribution.
Moreover, we can see that transport
jitter goes right through the digital processor's input receiver (even
the Crystal CS8412) and affects the amount of jitter at the DAC's word
clock-the point where jitter makes an audible difference. If the
word-clock timing is different, the sound will be different."

ie ~ SOME digital cables are directional and dacs ARE 'measureably' effected by jitter

 

[Anonymous]

theface:
ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit:theface - if you are experienced in these matters of cables, as your replies would leave others to believe, then please detail your experiences so that others may learn from your vast wealth of knowledge that has helped form your insightful and valuable opinion.

My experiences are none of your business....... but for the record, I have no Hifi industry links, no directly related scientific back ground and certainly no way of verifying my "perceived experience" However I do work in the electronics industry and do work with digital signal streams on a daily basis. When I change connecting cables the results (figures on a screen) do not alter!

I am basing my theory on....

a. Personal Listening experience and more importantly...

b. A basic understanding that a cable transmitting DIGITAL code (0's and 1's) cannot alter the signal (asuming manufacturing quality is sufficient to allow the cable to perform as intended) and it certainly can't add or remove bass or add or remove treble as suggested by the OP.

I have never read any feasible explanation as to how a Digital interconnect can change audible characteristics of a digital signal. The question again is....How can a Digital interconnect alter the signal stream consistently, across different recordings, resulting in an identifiable sonic signature. Any sane person with some logical thought should be able to question this subject.

I would be VERY intersed to read a concise and measurable explanation as to how a digital cable can change the signal so to alter the audiable characteristics of the music a micro second prior to being decoded in a DAC. Hence me asking the OP to explain.

Best wishes to all

Rgs
Face

Im sorry but you seem to have made an about face here. Firstly you stated categorically that digital cables cannot affect the digital signal they are conducting - and yet now you say it is only a theory you have. I have no problems with you or anyone else stating their opinions/experiences on a given topic but you should remember that it is just that - your opinion. Not everyone will agree with your opinion/theory, no matter how logical it may seem (to you).
to be honest, i agree that there is no logical explanation as to why a digital signal should be affected by the cable. however, many thousands of people (judging by user and professional reviews) believe that they do affect the sound of their system.
if you dont think cables make a difference then so be it - but please dont initiate arguments with others who do believe.

 

[Anonymous]

ok fair point sorry to all.

Yes I have made an about tern, I want to find out why digital cable can change the sound and have sonic signatures, the post you refer to hinted at an explanation. the 2nd more recent technical reply explains further good stuff.

I still do no see how Jitter can select frequencies and improve the sound.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey The FACE, I suspect you are secretly affiliated with some cable makers and you're worried about the amount of positive comments about SHB on this site and as Graham_Thomas has suggested your posts are downright offensive that the mods should do some serious editing. Your rude attitude against other posters seems to suggest that you're not a genuine audiophile and it's a no brainer not to think so.

 

[Anonymous]

2wenty2welve:

Hey The FACE, I suspect you are secretly affiliated with some cable makers and you're worried about the amount of positive comments about SHB on this site and as Graham_Thomas has suggested your posts are downright offensive that the mods should do some serious editing. Your rude attitude against other posters seems to suggest that you're not a genuine audiophile and it's a no brainer not to think so.

Thanks for that and sorry again. Downright offensive, well ok i have been very firm with my use of language and not minced my words, but that possibly an over reaction. I can assure you I dont work for a cable manufacture. I have a £20 QED digital interconnect between my cd transport and dac, if some one could explain how the SHB acts as tone control to improve bass and treble I'd buy one!

 

[Anonymous]

I'll not post again, which i am sure most of you will be pleased about

Although my permission is not required,..... Mods, feel free to edit / delete as you wish

 

[Anonymous]

The FACE, I have visited the SHB website and I reckon it is the silver plated copper conductors that makes the difference. I'm sure your QED uses cheap copper, so bare copper vs silver plated copper, which conductor do you reckon is more superior? Besides according to the website, SHB is made by an audiophile like ourselves and not by some greedy businessmen who's aim is to line up their pockets with our hard-earned money by ripping us off by their hyper-priced products. I've ordered a pair myself and will report my findings soon.