Screen burn or image retention and what i can do about it??

[professorhat]

I think it's a bit harsh to write off Panasonic without even contacting them about it. At any rate, your first call is definitely to the retailer as it's their responsibilty to replace / repair sets which develop faults, and a plasma which develops screen burn after just 3 hours of gaming is definitely a fault. If this isn't a fault, then Panasonic need to state very clearly in their manual that the TV is not suitable for gaming.

If you have no joy with the retailer then you should contact Panasonic. However, if the retailer does refuse, this again highlights why it pays to spend possibly a bit extra at a reputable store who value customer service. Not sure who you purchased from, but hopefully they'll be fair on this and either repair or replace the set.

 

[wireman]

This seems crazy! My Panny 46" G10 often stays on for 8-12 hours a day on BBC News 24 with the fixed red logo, black clock, and red 'rolling headline' bar across the bottom of the screen... never had any image retention or screen burn at all. This is probably a stupid question, but are you sure you haven't got all the colour/contrast settings turned up too far? I can't imagine what else would cause it.

 

[Oldboy]

Prof,

This morning i phoned my retailer (amazon) who told me i have to phone Panasonic to deal with this, that doesn't sound right to me! As far as i was aware it was the retailer that dealt with all faults within the first year of guarantee (i used to work in retail so i know that is the case) and to just be fobbed off by amazon in an 'over to you Panasonic' way is very disappointing.

I will be speaking to Panasonic as the tv is faulty imo, i expected some IR but this is ridiculous and across all sources so the discussions with Panasonic and Amazon start today and i'm prepared to fight my corner. I just hope i get a resolution to my issues and no more fobbing off!!

UPDATE: After speaking to Panasonic this morning after my retailer i am now in the position of having an engineer calling tomorrow to pick up the tv and inspect it for faults....how long this will take is anyone's guess but it is at least progress, just have to wait for the outcome now!

 

[Oldboy]

wireman,

All the contrast/colour and brightness setting across ALL the picture modes i use were adjusted as soon as the set was turned on for the first time. My game mode settings are lower than the THX settings for example so no it's not that as the contrast is only just past half way on my brightest setting and i used a THX calibration disc and glasse for the THX setting so i know the contrast/colour and brightness are correct on that setting and have made sure that none of my other picture modes settings exceed the THX standard.

Good question though and not stupid atall...i'm sure a few people may have made this mistake!

 

[Tom Moreno]

Good luck Oldboy, I hope Panasonic do the right thing by you. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey oldboy.

In answer to your question it is a big fat No! As I have not done anything about my TV as since I got back from my hols in Germany I have been working in Scotland as that is where the overtime is at the moment I will do something soon but as you are seeing now you just tend to get fobbed off in my case fobbed off to Sonys repair team hmmmmmm. I also have been running a lot as I entered a 10k race last Sunday I have been running for years but never raced wow it was amazing did a good time too 46:50 which I am well happy with!

Sky HD box has just given up the ghost I think last night we were only getting one signal so recordings were failing and now both signals are gone ahhhhhhhh now gotta deat with those useless morons over the phone after work of course!

I really hope you get your set sorted mate you have really been through the ringer! I can't believe panny do not have an option that can help the screen burn like samsung and lg.

Good luck mate!

 

[Anonymous]

hey Oldboy,

just wandering how you got on?

i have bought a samsung plasma and noticed burn after just a few minutes of use (i.e. reading the instruction manual with the menu screen on!!) although it takes 15-30 mins to remove the burn it has made me very paranoid about everything i watch! I'm thinking of taking it back....

your thread has been very useful though and i also saw something else you might want to read up on. It's a screen burn test comparing samsung with pani (doing 1hour and 8 hour tests). http://www.digitalversus.com/g15-subjected-to-1-hour-p730_6211_93.html

An update with your situation would be appreciated!

cheers

 

[Oldboy]

uni_nake:

hey Oldboy,

just wandering how you got on?

i have bought a samsung plasma and noticed burn after just a few minutes of use (i.e. reading the instruction manual with the menu screen on!!) although it takes 15-30 mins to remove the burn it has made me very paranoid about everything i watch! I'm thinking of taking it back....

your thread has been very useful though and i also saw something else you might want to read up on. It's a screen burn test comparing samsung with pani (doing 1hour and 8 hour tests). http://www.digitalversus.com/g15-subjected-to-1-hour-p730_6211_93.html

An update with your situation would be appreciated!

cheers

Hello uni_nake,

To update what has happened so far: my G20 was collected on thursday by the company i was told to call by Panasonic (can't mention them here) and i must say they didn't inspire confidence when they supplied me with a faulty temporary set for loan and insisted another one would be here on monday (yesterday) that never arrived despite me having to pay for the loan set!

I have no idea how long the tv will be away from and wasn't given any time frame either, not good. If the tv is away for more than 2 weeks the complaints will start to Panasonic UK and the repair company but i've got to say so far i'm not happy with the 'service' i have received from the repair company and i just wish i could name and shame them!

Will keep this post updated with more info when i get it!

For your Samsung to be showing burn that soon is worrying as the most damage is caused by burn in the 1st 200 hours of use and is normally permanent, i would be worried by that tbh so might be worth a call to Samsung to make sure this is normal. I can totally relate to being paranoid about what you watch and for how long, which is why my panny has gone away for repair (if it can be repaired!) so my advice would be a call to Samsung or a visit/call to your retailer to see what you can do.

Wish you all the best with your plasma

 

[Oldboy]

Update:

The repair people phoned me on saturday morning to report that they can't replicate the issue, this is despite me showing them the problem when they arrived to take the tv away.....i feel my initial thoughts that they were not the best company in the world have been well founded! I was asked what equipment i had so that they could have a go at recreating the problem BUT it happens across ALL sources so what's the point?

I've got to admit that i hold no hope of the tv being returned to me with the problem eradicated and i am preparing myself for another round of phone calls to Panasonic! If the tv is returned to me with the problem still there then i will be wanting a full refund from Panasonic and will be getting an alternative tv.

Not a happy chappy

 

[Anonymous]

I would like to join the conversation. I have exact the same problem with screen burn/image retention (hope it's the last one) on the Panasonic P42G20. Some parts of the Battlefield HUD are still there. (PS3).

To bad the manual says (not quoted yet?)

Do not display a still picture for a long time
This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen ("image retention").
This is not considered a malfunction and is not covered by the warranty.
Typical still images
? Channel number and other logos
? Image displayed in 4:3 mode
? Video game
? Computer image
To prevent image retention, contrast is lowered automatically after a few minutes if no signals are sent or no operations are performed.

I have now tried the 'snow' method and some full-screen movies for some hours. To bad nothing changed.(still ghosting stuff visible)

Stupid plasma.

. I've never have still images. But I assumed I could just play video games under normal circumstances. Why is the 'game mode' not helping?

 

[Oldboy]

BuggyBug,

You are more than welcome to join the discussion, the more the merrier! Good to hear i am not the only one with the problem...but also bad news as i know you are suffering too

.

I am well aware of what the manual says but after 4months of run in (approx 400hrs) and with myself having researched plasma tech so i knew what to expect i am of the opinion that if the tv still shows the problem when it arrives back then it's not fit for purpose. If i can't use the tv for extended periods of time without screen burn occuring then why was it sold in the first place?? It's faulty and i will not accept any fobbing off from Panasonic or the repair agent despite what the manual says as it doesn't say anything about the level of the problem i have with my set so as far as i am concerned there is no get out of jail free card there!

End of rant lol....back to your problem, have you contacted your retailer or Panasonic for advice? This is weird as my first sighting of the problem was with a video game (Fifa 11) and that burned an EA logo into my screen that would not budge and then it just started getting worse and happening across all sources....like a virus!

As for game mode, according to the Panasonic blurb the game mode works with the anti-image retention (wobbling) function which should stop this from happening but it obviously doesn't work even if, like me, you changed the settings to dial down the extreme contrast and brightness that game mode has as standard. Would be great if you could stay in touch via this thread so we can compare notes with how each of us gets on with getting some answers from Panasonic

Best regards.

 

[professorhat]

Considering the wording of the manual, I think it's again worth defining the difference between image retention and screen burn again. Image retention is when a residual image can be temporarily seen on a plasma. Screen burn is when a residual image is permanently visible on the screen. The manual is clearly talking about the first issue and this (correctly) is not covered by the warranty. From what you guys are talking about, you have screen burn which is a fault considering how you've used the screen and should therefore be covered by the warranty.

Oldboy, I appreciate this doesn't help you if they're saying they can't see an issue. I can only hope that somehow during the transit, the problem has gone and it truly was image retention, so when you receive it back all will be fine. Otherwise, you'll need to start kicking up some fuss - I really hope it doesn't come to this.

BuggyBug - it's worth noting, I've just read the following on a website testing plasmas for burn-in and image retention and it says the following:

A full white image was displayed for a few hours on the two plasma TVs that showed residual images, after which the residual images disappeared completely.

So this is also worth a go in addition to the other methods you've tried.

It's not good to see this and I'm sure it will worry other potential buyers - it is perhaps something the new Panasonics can be susceptible to (like the backlight issues on some of last year's Sonys)? It's very odd - as the owner of two plasmas now, I've seen image retention quite a few times on my older Panasonic, but hardly at all on my newer Pioneer. I've never seen anything like you guys are describing though.

 

[Anonymous]

I've been reading this thread with interest because I have an LCD tv which is doing something similar. It's a Toshiba 32WLT66 and although it's retention rather than burn, it's ruined my viewing experience. Simply displaying the menu on my cable box in order to select a program to view is enough to cause it. I can see most of the text and sometimes even the time on the clock down to the minute, for the next two hours or so - ie. for most of my viewing time. The following day the tv is back to normal until I bring up the menus again. 4x3 viewing also causes a reddish tint at the sides, visible when I switch back to wide.

The tv is a few years old & I'm ready to replace it so not looking for a solution - but I thought it was worth mentioning since it's obviously possible for a tv to develop this type of fault - it didn't do it when it was new.

 

[Oldboy]

Prof,

Again the voice of reason when i'm tearing my hair out....lol

I beleive the images are screen burn and not image retention as the EA logo showed no sign of budging despite trying all the methods to remove it. As i said before i don't hold out much hope that the bunch of comedians Panasonic like to call 'repair agents' will be able to fix the fault, if they can find it, as all evidence so far points that way especially when they said when they arrived that screen burn and image retention are the same thing! As you can imagine i was tempted to jump in right there but bit my lip knowing i was right so my hopes aren't high but i truly hope you are right and that it sorted itself out in transit....fingers crossed

I have also read that report on plasma screens....it was this sort of research that helped me decide that plasma wasn't a risk but it seems i have been stung again this year after last year having to go through the whole Sony backlight issue. I'm starting to feel that i should go back to crtv and forget high def as i've had absolutely no luck buying a flatscreen tv and feel i've been on the receiving end of some really poor quality tv's....i'm into the 3rd year now and 10th tv and ALL of them have been faulty, surely one person can't be that unlucky so does this say something about the quality of the tv's i have received?? YES imo!

There is alot wrong with this years Panasonic plasmas that have already been mentioned in the v20 thread but this one i can't look beyond like the others so if it's not fixed it will be going back and i will try one last time to get a tv i'm happy with

 

[Oldboy]

megadroid,

Very interesting that an lcd can develop the fault as i thought this problem was exclusive to plasma tech!? It sounds very familiar and just what happens to my plasma which is nowhere near as old as your lcd so thanks for the heads up

 

[Anonymous]

Oldboy

I have seen a few sonys in comets and other stores with screen burn when they have had the sony demo on for weeks!

Seen a few old crts on jobs I have worked on in the past when they have been used for text display!

I think rear projection sets were the worse of all if I remember my mates one said not to play games on it in the manual!

Mate remember you are not alone with your tv woes not that makes it alright of course!

Jamie.

 

[Oldboy]

Snakey:

Oldboy

I have seen a few sonys in comets and other stores with screen burn when they have had the sony demo on for weeks!

Seen a few old crts on jobs I have worked on in the past when they have been used for text display!

I think rear projection sets were the worse of all if I remember my mates one said not to play games on it in the manual!

Mate remember you are not alone with your tv woes not that makes it alright of course!

Jamie.

Blimey! I was sure that screen burn was exclusive to plasma tech, i stand corrected!

I remember a rear projection set i saw in the 90's that was HUUUGE and on the 1st page of the manual was a warning in bold text that said playing video games would damage the set beyond repair and wasn't covered by the warranty!

Still no more news from 'the comedians' as i have taken to calling them so i guess it will be a while yet before i get some answers about my tv but being 2 weeks into the repair and having no news fills me with no confidence atall, the service i have received up to now has not been good but i have everything crossed that the issue gets sorted.

I presume you still haven't solved your tv woes yet??

Best regards

Nick.

 

[professorhat]

Oldboy:Blimey! I was sure that screen burn was exclusive to plasma tech, i stand corrected!

Nope not at all - that's why your operating system for your computer has a built in screensaver - to prevent the image of a standard desktop being burnt into your computer's LCD screen it if it's left on and unused for a long time.

 

[Oldboy]

professorhat:

Oldboy:Blimey! I was sure that screen burn was exclusive to plasma tech, i stand corrected!

Nope not at all - that's why your operating system for your computer has a built in screensaver - to prevent the image of a standard desktop being burnt into your computer's LCD screen it if it's left on and unused for a long time.

Prof,

As the problem is not exclusive to plasma then why did i not get this problem with the various LCD's i have had?? They were all used in exactly the same way as my plasma with extended sessions on Fifa etc for longer than on my plasma but no screen burn atall....is this a case of both techs suffering from the problem but LCD being better at coping with it than plasma?

Many thanks.

 

[AEJim]

Oldboy:professorhat:
Oldboy:Blimey! I was sure that screen burn was exclusive to plasma tech, i stand corrected!

Nope not at all - that's why your operating system for your computer has a built in screensaver - to prevent the image of a standard desktop being burnt into your computer's LCD screen it if it's left on and unused for a long time.

Prof,

As the problem is not exclusive to plasma then why did i not get this problem with the various LCD's i have had?? They were all used in exactly the same way as my plasma with extended sessions on Fifa etc for longer than on my plasma but no screen burn atall....is this a case of both techs suffering from the problem but LCD being better at coping with it than plasma?

Many thanks.

While LCD is susceptible to a degree, it's nowhere near as bad as Plasma in that respect. CRT also could get screen burn remember (like old IBM computer monitors that had the green office accounts screens permanently embedded into them!).

You will certainly be a lot safer gaming on an LCD than any Plasma, I've never seen a problem or even mild IR after hours if gaming on a modern LCD - I think you're looking at days of static imagery rather than hours to experience any issues...

 

[Anonymous]

Hi old boy ive only just come across your post i had a simillar problem to yours i have the same tv as yours but 50" model which i bought in july and during a 7-8 hour gaming session on ufc on x box my tv developed a two tone coloured bar all the way across the bottom of the screen i was horrified i thought at first it was (screen burn) the good news is trust me it will eventually fade and disapear but it takes a hell of a lot longer than a few hours or even days mine took about 3-4 weeks to completely disapear i did this by using the snow screen for a few hours at a time whilst not watching tv then just using the tv as normal but watching diffrent sources and movies with the black bars at the top and bottom and full screen pictures.I also used a set of colour slides that just kept cycling through diffrent colours repeating every 4-5 seconds.However this has now made me very paranoid and i very rarely play games on my tv now and im not happy as this is why i bought the tv and was hoping that since my first panny plasma the tech to prevent this would have been better.I do still play games but im lucky as i mentioned i have another 42" panasonic tv the pz700 which i have to say was exactly the same when i bought it the same thing happened when using it for gaming sessions and also while watching normal tv some of the channel logos would burn in to the screen but that was only temporary and now after about 3 years of use it dosent suffer from any screen burn or image retention i just think plasmas get better after a year or so of using them i suspect yours is only ir and will eventually disapear just like mine but it does take a while i hope you manage to sort this out can you let me know the outcome.

 

[Anonymous]

Too bad the 'image retention' is still there after a week (a lot of snow-patterns and movies later).

professorhat:

Considering the wording of the manual, I think it's again worth defining the difference between image retention and screen burn again. Image retention is when a residual image can be temporarily seen on a plasma. Screen burn is when a residual image is permanently visible on the screen. The manual is clearly talking about the first issue and this (correctly) is not covered by the warranty. From what you guys are talking about, you have screen burn which is a fault considering how you've used the screen and should therefore be covered by the warranty.

The English manual mentions 'image retention'. The dutch (I'm from the Netherlands), uses 'permanent after-image' (directly translated) looks more like burn-in, 'because the word 'permanent'.

 

[robjcooper]

Hi Guys,

Not sure how I could get it to you, but I have a 1 minute H.264 quicktime of a screenwipe. It's a set of graduated white to black frames travelling horizontally across the screen, which will switch all the cells from off to full on in a cycle and which may reset them and remove the retention. As it's only 1 minute long you will have to either keep playing it or find a way to loop it.

It's a 48.2mb file - not sure how I could get it to you to try out - JD, any suggestions ?

Rob

 

[Oldboy]

robjcooper:

Hi Guys,

Not sure how I could get it to you, but I have a 1 minute H.264 quicktime of a screenwipe. It's a set of graduated white to black frames travelling horizontally across the screen, which will switch all the cells from off to full on in a cycle and which may reset them and remove the retention. As it's only 1 minute long you will have to either keep playing it or find a way to loop it.

It's a 48.2mb file - not sure how I could get it to you to try out - JD, any suggestions ?

Rob

Thanks Rob!

Personally i got a copy of PixelProtector which has the same screenwipe plus a coloured 'snow' wipe and a white screen all of which can play continually on any dvd/bd player but i'm sure some of the guys on here will find it very useful indeed as i found it difficult getting these sort of images from the net to help wipe the screen.

To get the image that you have to loop may be a problem though but then if you are using a pc or mac could you not set it up as a screen saver and loop it that way? The only way of getting it to people would be via email and i'm sure MODS would not be impressed plus the implications of having your email address up on the WHF forums of course.....i'm not sure there is a workaround for this

Perhaps someone will come up with a better solution, hopefully.

Many thanks again.

Oldboy

 

[Oldboy]

BuggyBug,

I wouldn't worry too much about the wording of your manual as something may have been lost in translation, the fact that Panasonic has taken my issues seriously would suggest that this is considered far from normal. It would be very strange for the warranty to differ between countries unless different models are sold in other countries, no? I may very well be wrong in that assumption but it makes sense to me as my warranty is a European one and from what i understand this is the same warranty any Panny tv in the EU gets.

Oldboy.