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Oct 12, 2016
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Anyone got any experience with their products?

I occasionally read stereophile (I sometimes like to pretend I've won the lottery and could become a stereo/music hermit) but often surprised to see how highly they regarded schitt products such as the ragnarok and yggdrasil. Are they actually as good as they say?

Not sure if it just like whathifi's uncomfortably close realtionship with Cambridge audio products for the last 20 years.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
174
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18,670
Here are 147 posts to be getting on with....

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/schiit-yggdrassil-dac

As for favourite products, you'll notice regular posters have their favourites too. I think WHF is a bit like the BBC - if they are accused of bias by both or various sides, it probably means they are about right overall! In the home UK market, Cambridge have long offered good or better products with modest prices. That's bound to find favour.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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nopiano said:
Here are 147 posts to be getting on with....

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/schiit-yggdrassil-dac

As for favourite products, you'll notice regular posters have their favourites too. I think WHF is a bit like the BBC - if they are accused of bias by both or various sides, it probably means they are about right overall! In the home UK market, Cambridge have long offered good or better products with modest prices. That's bound to find favour.
Generally I feel WHF do a pretty fair job. Ideally I would like to see an end to the 'star' ratings but that is not going to happen, it is pivotal to the WHF brand.

So not at all like the BBC then. A more corrupt, biased organisation would be difficult to imagine.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
174
53
18,670
davedotco said:
nopiano said:
Here are 147 posts to be getting on with....

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/schiit-yggdrassil-dac

As for favourite products, you'll notice regular posters have their favourites too. I think WHF is a bit like the BBC - if they are accused of bias by both or various sides, it probably means they are about right overall! In the home UK market, Cambridge have long offered good or better products with modest prices. That's bound to find favour.
Generally I feel WHF do a pretty fair job. Ideally I would like to see an end to the 'star' ratings but that is not going to happen, it is pivotal to the WHF brand.

So not at all like the BBC then. A more corrupt, biased organisation would be difficult to imagine.
Sorry my analogy backfired. I knew what I meant!
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
174
53
18,670
nopiano said:
Here are 147 posts to be getting on with....

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/schiit-yggdrassil-dac

As for favourite products, you'll notice regular posters have their favourites too. I think WHF is a bit like the BBC - if they are accused of bias by both or various sides, it probably means they are about right overall! In the home UK market, Cambridge have long offered good or better products with modest prices. That's bound to find favour.
I'd forgotten that this strayed into suicidal matters, but was ok to start with. Up to around post 50 or 60 it is worth a read.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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jjbomber said:
davedotco said:
nopiano said:
I think WHF is a bit like the BBC -
So not at all like the BBC then. A more corrupt, biased organisation would be difficult to imagine.
Especially if you are a star from Mrs Brown's Boys apparently.
Has the right to minimise their tax liability providing they stay within the law. It is a shame that so many of our tax laws seem to be deliberately framed to allow for dubious practises to flourish.

However, this is nothing to do with the BBC, the corruption I was alluding to involve more important matters such as the cover up of the paedophelia of it's 'stars' such as Savile and Harris and it's use of EU funds to further it's anti-brexit agenda.
 

Al ears

Moderator
davedotco said:
jjbomber said:
davedotco said:
nopiano said:
I think WHF is a bit like the BBC -
So not at all like the BBC then. A more corrupt, biased organisation would be difficult to imagine.
Especially if you are a star from Mrs Brown's Boys apparently.
Has the right to minimise their tax liability providing they stay within the law. It is a shame that so many of our tax laws seem to be deliberately framed to allow for dubious practises to flourish.

However, this is nothing to do with the BBC, the corruption I was alluding to involve more important matters such as the cover up of the paedophelia of it's 'stars' such as Savile and Harris and it's use of EU funds to further it's anti-brexit agenda.
They really ar Schiits.... just to bring the subject up again... ;-)
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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Al ears said:
davedotco said:
jjbomber said:
davedotco said:
nopiano said:
I think WHF is a bit like the BBC -
So not at all like the BBC then. A more corrupt, biased organisation would be difficult to imagine.
Especially if you are a star from Mrs Brown's Boys apparently.
Has the right to minimise their tax liability providing they stay within the law. It is a shame that so many of our tax laws seem to be deliberately framed to allow for dubious practises to flourish.

However, this is nothing to do with the BBC, the corruption I was alluding to involve more important matters such as the cover up of the paedophelia of it's 'stars' such as Savile and Harris and it's use of EU funds to further it's anti-brexit agenda.
They really ar Schiits.... just to bring the subject up again... ;-)
Personally I feel it is their attempts at comedy that is truly the schiits.

Back on topic, I have had a little bit of hands on with some Schiit product, these were budget models unfortunately in this case, but I thought they were pretty good vfm in a sort of understated way. Well made, worked well and made no attempt to be what they were not.
 

jonathanRD

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2011
173
46
18,620
davedotco said:
jjbomber said:
Has the right to minimise their tax liability providing they stay within the law. It is a shame that so many of our tax laws seem to be deliberately framed to allow for dubious practises to flourish.
Not sure I understand this, so who do you think is deliberately framing laws to allow dubious practises to flourish?

I'm just interested.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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jonathanRD said:
davedotco said:
jjbomber said:
Has the right to minimise their tax liability providing they stay within the law. It is a shame that so many of our tax laws seem to be deliberately framed to allow for dubious practises to flourish.
Not sure I understand this, so who do you think is deliberately framing laws to allow dubious practises to flourish?

I'm just interested.
I feel that many of the tax laws are framed to allow parliament (and the departments of state) a degree of flexibility in how they are implimented to suit political aims.

The same ambiguities can be used by rich individuals or companies to minimise their tax liabilities and remain within the law. Some schemes sail very close to the line and can move from being legal to illegal (and vice versa) simply by a 're-interpretation' of the existing laws.

That said, I have no experience of financial matters at this level, so is is simply an observation from someone who takes an interest in such matters and has a little understanding of how the state likes to do things.
 

jjbomber

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2006
616
190
19,070
davedotco said:
That said, I have no experience of financial matters at this level, so is is simply an observation from someone who takes an interest in such matters and has a little understanding of how the state likes to do things.
So called K2 schemes. In a nutshell, an offshore company in a tax haven owns anything that can be copyrighted. The UK company then pays the tax haven for intellectual rights, image rights, patent use etc. while the tax-free tax haven doesn't pay anything on the profit. The tax haven company then 'lends' the money to the celebrity, so that they haven't received an income but only a loan that never gets repaid. So the 'loan' is tax free.

Incidently, George Osbourne did try to crack down on this by introducing Withholding Tax of 20% on money paid to tax havens. However he cannot tax money paid to other EU countries. So the money goes from the UK to Holland tax-free, where it is then transferred tax-free to a safe haven. So basically George Osbourne created a whole industry in Holland for people with UK earnings. If you hear of U2 and The Rolling Stones collecting royalties via Holland, that is why.

So the politicians have tried but it's not easy to close the system down.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
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0
jjbomber said:
davedotco said:
That said, I have no experience of financial matters at this level, so is is simply an observation from someone who takes an interest in such matters and has a little understanding of how the state likes to do things.
So called K2 schemes. In a nutshell, an offshore company in a tax haven owns anything that can be copyrighted. The UK company then pays the tax haven for intellectual rights, image rights, patent use etc. while the tax-free tax haven doesn't pay anything on the profit. The tax haven company then 'lends' the money to the celebrity, so that they haven't received an income but only a loan that never gets repaid. So the 'loan' is tax free.

Incidently, George Osbourne did try to crack down on this by introducing Withholding Tax of 20% on money paid to tax havens. However he cannot tax money paid to other EU countries. So the money goes from the UK to Holland tax-free, where it is then transferred tax-free to a safe haven. So basically George Osbourne created a whole industry in Holland for people with UK earnings. If you hear of U2 and The Rolling Stones collecting royalties via Holland, that is why.

So the politicians have tried but it's not easy to close the system down.
Thanks for that. I remember huge and highly publicised efforts to close down this issue whilst allowing 'money laundering' to continue on an epic scale, coffee chains via Luxemburg, computer companies via Ireland for example.

The point that I was trying, poorly, to make is that, rather like the unwritten 'British Constitution', these laws can be reinterpretted to suit the agenda of the government of the day or at the present time, the government in Brussels.
 

jjbomber

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2006
616
190
19,070
jonathanRD said:
Search GOV.UK for Accelerated Payments, GAAR and DOTAS - all examples of the fight against evasion.
Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is using the legal loopholes to minimise a tax liability. Be careful to differentiate between the two.
 

Al ears

Moderator
davedotco said:
Al ears said:
davedotco said:
jjbomber said:
davedotco said:
nopiano said:
I think WHF is a bit like the BBC -
So not at all like the BBC then. A more corrupt, biased organisation would be difficult to imagine.
Especially if you are a star from Mrs Brown's Boys apparently.
Has the right to minimise their tax liability providing they stay within the law. It is a shame that so many of our tax laws seem to be deliberately framed to allow for dubious practises to flourish.

However, this is nothing to do with the BBC, the corruption I was alluding to involve more important matters such as the cover up of the paedophelia of it's 'stars' such as Savile and Harris and it's use of EU funds to further it's anti-brexit agenda.
They really ar Schiits.... just to bring the subject up again... ;-)
Personally I feel it is their attempts at comedy that is truly the schiits.

Back on topic, I have had a little bit of hands on with some Schiit product, these were budget models unfortunately in this case, but I thought they were pretty good vfm in a sort of understated way. Well made, worked well and made no attempt to be what they were not.
I think just about every review I have read come to the same conclusion and I believe they will certainly give the 'big boys' a thrashing.
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
739
298
5,270
Considering Schiit uses AKM chips I believe they ought to sound good. I know it's more implementation than chip itself but from my observations AKM sounds dynamic, musical and with a little bit more bite than others. At least the ones I've heard.
 

jonathanRD

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2011
173
46
18,620
davedotco said:
jjbomber said:
davedotco said:
That said, I have no experience of financial matters at this level, so is is simply an observation from someone who takes an interest in such matters and has a little understanding of how the state likes to do things.
So called K2 schemes. In a nutshell, an offshore company in a tax haven owns anything that can be copyrighted. The UK company then pays the tax haven for intellectual rights, image rights, patent use etc. while the tax-free tax haven doesn't pay anything on the profit. The tax haven company then 'lends' the money to the celebrity, so that they haven't received an income but only a loan that never gets repaid. So the 'loan' is tax free.

Incidently, George Osbourne did try to crack down on this by introducing Withholding Tax of 20% on money paid to tax havens. However he cannot tax money paid to other EU countries. So the money goes from the UK to Holland tax-free, where it is then transferred tax-free to a safe haven. So basically George Osbourne created a whole industry in Holland for people with UK earnings. If you hear of U2 and The Rolling Stones collecting royalties via Holland, that is why.

So the politicians have tried but it's not easy to close the system down.
Thanks for that. I remember huge and highly publicised efforts to close down this issue whilst allowing 'money laundering' to continue on an epic scale, coffee chains via Luxemburg, computer companies via Ireland for example.

The point that I was trying, poorly, to make is that, rather like the unwritten 'British Constitution', these laws can be reinterpretted to suit the agenda of the government of the day or at the present time, the government in Brussels.
Search GOV.UK for Accelerated Payments, GAAR and DOTAS - all examples of the fight against avoidance.
 

jonathanRD

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2011
173
46
18,620
jjbomber said:
jonathanRD said:
Search GOV.UK for Accelerated Payments, GAAR and DOTAS - all examples of the fight against evasion.
Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is using the legal loopholes to minimise a tax liability. Be careful to differentiate between the two.
Schiit! - yes easily done when you are not concentrating *blush*
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
jonathanRD said:
jjbomber said:
jonathanRD said:
Search GOV.UK for Accelerated Payments, GAAR and DOTAS - all examples of the fight against evasion.
Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is using the legal loopholes to minimise a tax liability. Be careful to differentiate between the two.
Schiit! - yes easily done when you are not concentrating *blush*
I was reading up on this yesterday, HMCE seem pretty hot, claiming over 90% of due taxes actually being collected but this does not tell us the amounts being legally avoided.

My cynical mind still maintains that the laws are deliberately complex to allow certain people or organisations to avoid tax with the governments blessing whilst others less fortunate are persued mercilessly.

I'll get the tinfoil...
 
Oct 12, 2016
11
0
0
nopiano said:
Here are 147 posts to be getting on with....

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/schiit-yggdrassil-dac

As for favourite products, you'll notice regular posters have their favourites too.  I think WHF is a bit like the BBC - if they are accused of bias by both or various sides, it probably means they are about right overall!  In the home UK market, Cambridge have long offered good or better products with modest prices. That's bound to find favour. 
Thanks! shame it goes so off topic in that link.

I'm also surprised that yggdasril is maxed out at 19bit guess it's more the sound than anything but give it a few years and I guess it will be outdated very quickly
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
Elliott Leishman said:
nopiano said:
Here are 147 posts to be getting on with....

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/schiit-yggdrassil-dac

As for favourite products, you'll notice regular posters have their favourites too. I think WHF is a bit like the BBC - if they are accused of bias by both or various sides, it probably means they are about right overall! In the home UK market, Cambridge have long offered good or better products with modest prices. That's bound to find favour.
Thanks! shame it goes so off topic in that link.

I'm also surprised that yggdasril is maxed out at 19bit guess it's more the sound than anything but give it a few years and I guess it will be outdated very quickly
It is very easy to get carried away with all the talk of 24 bit this and 32bit that that it becomes quite easy to to lose track of reality.

The most important thing to understand is the difference between a system or a components processing capability and a setups resolution.

So if a component can resolve 19bits, what does that mean? Put simply it means that the component can resolve a signal that is 114dB below full output, that is tiny. Given that even the best recordings have no relevant signal lower than 40 or 50dB below full output this is really just a measure of how well a component can resolve noise.

Some years ago, in conjunction with a company I was working with, we set out to measure the real world resolution of their top of the line ($8,000 +)digital to analog converter, which under lab conditions was able to resolve 21bits, the same as claimed by the Yggdrasil. In a normal (hi-end) system at home or in the showroom this typically reduced to 19bits.

To give context, we tested several good integrated players in our system and found that most gave around 17 bits of resolution and when we tested a decent budget system in a showroom environment, it was unable to resolve even the 16 bits present on the cd.

The point of this is simply that bit depth is really not the most important issue when it comes to the assessment of digital playback, even the highest resolution recordings, whether 24/192, DSD or whatever will still be limited by the resolution of the system.

The worth or otherwise of the Yggdrasil dac should be evaluated using factors far more important than its maximum resolution.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
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Elliott Leishman said:
Thanks Dave that's really interesting.

The more detail you go into audio components the harder they become to understand! :p
Especially true of anything digital.

The moment you think you undestand what is happening is the moment you know you are wrong - again.

As an aside, two of the three best systems I have ever heard were vinyl based, very expensive and very, very good.

In terms of bit depth, the best vinyl player in existance can be captured on a digital system of around 10-11 bits.
 

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