room acoustics needed for beginner in bedroom

[hardcore_gamer29]

So i have just build my 2.1 setup with Denon x4800h DALI opticon 2 mk2 and svs pb 2000 pro. Now this subwoofer is not performing i tried many settings watched many videos and evens subwoofer crawl failed. Now its time to step into the world of room acoustics. I am attaching a video that gives 360 view of my room with instructions of each wall written with my sitting distance possible. So, would like to know the best wall for wall mount where there is minimal need of room acoustics. Like i have written which wall has wooden door to left or right or open window so that acoustics can be treated according to it. As its a bedroom not dedicated ht room i would like minimum required acoustics. The main issue is subwoofer only though speakers sound best. I will be getting rid of pc table and tv unit as well from this room and will wallmount tv. So which will be best wall so that i can put my subwoofer in front only to blend with dali fronts
youtube

 

[twinkletoes]

When you say it’s not preforming what do you mean? What’s actually wrong?

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

When you say it’s not preforming what do you mean? What’s actually wrong?

mid level bass is missing or very low but loud basss is very very good. I ran loop video 5 hz to 120hz on youtube. it was deep till 70hz then 75 80 was not there i could not hear

 

[twinkletoes]

mid level bass is missing or very low but loud basss is very very good. I ran loop video 5 hz to 120hz on youtube. it was deep till 70hz then 75 80 was not there i could not hear

ahh you have potential bass suck/room mode problem/phase problem. Your room looks almost square so it will be problematic.

Silly question have you set the crossover correctly within the amp? and bypassed it on the subwoofer?

Have you re-run the calibration when placing the subwoofer? Every movement you make it will need to be re-run.

Have you played with the subwoofer app EQ if so re set everything to flat.

I take it those measurements/sweep you took was from the listening position?

Do you get the same problem if you allow the speakers to play down to 60hz and then let the subwoofer take over? remember you're after a blend it should all be the same perceived level if that make sense?

Room mode problems are difficult to over come and it maybe something you have to live with but you can normally find a space where its ok. For me in the first instance, as you're trouble shooting, id keep the subwoofer in-between the front speakers for the moment, moving left or right millimetres at a time! Small movements can make big changes. Don't play bass sweeps, play a familiar piece of music, Something with loads of bass, my go to is Dj shadows three Ralph. Ported subs can also make this problem worst in my experience but there isnt much you can do about that now.

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

i ahve tried all options in denon x4800h using lfe only lfe+mains tries crossovers 60 70 90 110 120 etc... one thing is that where i sit if i put subwoofer just right of my chair bass is very good deep . how is this possible?

 

[abacus]

i ahve tried all options in denon x4800h using lfe only lfe+mains tries crossovers 60 70 90 110 120 etc... one thing is that where i sit if i put subwoofer just right of my chair bass is very good deep . how is this possible?

Speaker placement (A subwoofer is a speaker) is of vital importance to get a good sound.
Pop the sub in your listening position and play some bass music, then crawl around the room to the positions that the sub can be put to see which gives the best bass sound and put the sub there, after that it will just need a few tweaks to get sound right.
If it's a main speaker problem, then move these around to a position that gives you the best sound in your seated position.
Finally run the room correction software and tweak it to suit.

Bill

 

[twinkletoes]

i ahve tried all options in denon x4800h using lfe only lfe+mains tries crossovers 60 70 90 110 120 etc... one thing is that where i sit if i put subwoofer just right of my chair bass is very good deep . how is this possible?

room interaction are a fickle thing had the same problem any moons ago.

Can you have It beside your chair? is that an option.

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

room interaction are a fickle thing had the same problem any moons ago.

Can you have It beside your chair? is that an option.

yes i can have it and its giving a shaking bass but i think it wont blend well with the fronts. no? Localization?

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

Speaker placement (A subwoofer is a speaker) is of vital importance to get a good sound.
Pop the sub in your listening position and play some bass music, then crawl around the room to the positions that the sub can be put to see which gives the best bass sound and put the sub there, after that it will just need a few tweaks to get sound right.
If it's a main speaker problem, then move these around to a position that gives you the best sound in your seated position.
Finally run the room correction software and tweak it to suit.

Bill

i did subwoofer crawl 4 times but the thing is when sub is in chair and i heard very good bass say in spectre movie building collapse its very good but when i actaully put the sub there bass is not same thats the issue. so sub crawl is out of equation now

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

Speaker placement (A subwoofer is a speaker) is of vital importance to get a good sound.
Pop the sub in your listening position and play some bass music, then crawl around the room to the positions that the sub can be put to see which gives the best bass sound and put the sub there, after that it will just need a few tweaks to get sound right.
If it's a main speaker problem, then move these around to a position that gives you the best sound in your seated position.
Finally run the room correction software and tweak it to suit.

Bill

the main issue is not loud deep bass its great issue is with 70 to 80 hz range its a null in my seating position

 

[twinkletoes]

yes i can have it and its giving a shaking bass but i think it wont blend well with the fronts. no? Localization?

It will blend but will take work just turn the gain right down and bring it back up to the point it’s noticeable and then back off a little. Auto eq might get a bit confused though

 

[basscleaner]

I would like you to pay attention to your speakers. Unfortunately, our brave government has made YouTube forbidden zon for me and I cannot understand, where they are. Your speakers in low range work from 60 Hz, don't you? It means, that SPL for them in your issue (loss of bass 70 - 80 Hz) is capable to influence. Than, first of all you need is to place your speakers right, to achieve minimum of FR deviations (called Spread) approx. +-2 dB or less for LF range. It's not nesessary to place them at standard hearing height (1.1 m from floor). They could be placed at different places, but following to angle directions and convenience. If your sub has the good quality to cut off distortion from higher harmonics, it means, that you can place sub at any position in the room with the aim to correct somehow FR quality and that's all. If not, than you will have to place your sub(s) close to main speakers. Good luck!

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

I would like you to pay attention to your speakers. Unfortunately, our brave government has made YouTube forbidden zon for me and I cannot understand, where they are. Your speakers in low range work from 60 Hz, don't you? It means, that SPL for them in your issue (loss of bass 70 - 80 Hz) is capable to influence. Than, first of all you need is to place your speakers right, to achieve minimum of FR deviations (called Spread) approx. +-2 dB or less for LF range. It's not nesessary to place them at standard hearing height (1.1 m from floor). They could be placed at different places, but following to angle directions and convenience. If your sub has the good quality to cut off distortion from higher harmonics, it means, that you can place sub at any position in the room with the aim to correct somehow FR quality and that's all. If not, than you will have to place your sub(s) close to main speakers. Good luck!

did not understand as i am a beginner do you want me to change speaker crossover frequency to higher?

 

[Deliriumbassist]

Have you set a crossover frequency on the subwoofer itself?

If you have, you're double filtering what is being sent from the speakers, and filtering the LFE channel (which should NEVER be filtered). This will create a dip in the response.

If your subwoofer has an LFE mode, use that. If not, set the crossover/LPF dial as high as possible.

Also - two subwoofers. The subwoofer crawl is not the way to find the best position for a sub, but the least worst. And that only works for the content you're testing with, as peaks and nulls change position by frequency. By using two subs, you start to fill in the dips and cut off the peaks of the other sub (and vice versa) - as long as the subs are not symmetrically placed.

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

Have you set a crossover frequency on the subwoofer itself?

If you have, you're double filtering what is being sent from the speakers, and filtering the LFE channel (which should NEVER be filtered). This will create a dip in the response.

If your subwoofer has an LFE mode, use that. If not, set the crossover/LPF dial as high as possible.

Also - two subwoofers. The subwoofer crawl is not the way to find the best position for a sub, but the least worst. And that only works for the content you're testing with, as peaks and nulls change position by frequency. By using two subs, you start to fill in the dips and cut off the peaks of the other sub (and vice versa) - as long as the subs are not symmetrically placed.

i can buy another sub but will be placed only in front between front speakers as i have no space more. also LPF is set to default in svs app its off. will the 2 subs work like in this position or not? i cant put diagonally opposite or something like that. as my room is small

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

I would like you to pay attention to your speakers. Unfortunately, our brave government has made YouTube forbidden zon for me and I cannot understand, where they are. Your speakers in low range work from 60 Hz, don't you? It means, that SPL for them in your issue (loss of bass 70 - 80 Hz) is capable to influence. Than, first of all you need is to place your speakers right, to achieve minimum of FR deviations (called Spread) approx. +-2 dB or less for LF range. It's not nesessary to place them at standard hearing height (1.1 m from floor). They could be placed at different places, but following to angle directions and convenience. If your sub has the good quality to cut off distortion from higher harmonics, it means, that you can place sub at any position in the room with the aim to correct somehow FR quality and that's all. If not, than you will have to place your sub(s) close to main speakers. Good luck!

Is there any tool or video online where i can see if i need room acoustic treatment. Basically i have normal bedroom untreated. BUt it will soon have only home theatre components only. For now i have pc table my small bed i will remove all these soon. My room is only height 10 feet length 12.75 feet width 10.3 feet. I have svs pb 2000 pro and its not performing well. My other components are dali opticon 2 mk2 fronts denon x4800h sony oled 65 inches and panasonic ub820EGK. Is there any way to predict i need acoustic

 

[basscleaner]

did not understand as i am a beginner do you want me to change speaker crossover frequency to higher?

For your 2.1 system is better to use maximum of output sound for best listening. If you will up F-crossover it means, that low frequency range will be played by your sub only. It's not good to my opinion, because your front speakers have good opportunity to play sound from 60 Hz. You will lose bright musical impressions if to do this cut. The symmetry in speakers position may not to be with ideal (equal) distance to listener.

 

[basscleaner]

Is there any tool or video online where i can see if i need room acoustic treatment. Basically i have normal bedroom untreated. BUt it will soon have only home theatre components only. For now i have pc table my small bed i will remove all these soon. My room is only height 10 feet length 12.75 feet width 10.3 feet. I have svs pb 2000 pro and its not performing well. My other components are dali opticon 2 mk2 fronts denon x4800h sony oled 65 inches and panasonic ub820EGK. Is there any way to predict i need acoustic

Unfortunately, your query goes beyond simple advices. There are some acoustical simulators, for instance, CaraCAD, REW or any, where you can do modelling, even with you furniture and different finishing subjects. Some of them are paid service, some - not. Maybe you should contact with any acoustical service firm close to you destination.

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

For your 2.1 system is better to use maximum of output sound for best listening. If you will up F-crossover it means, that low frequency range will be played by your sub only. It's not good to my opinion, because your front speakers have good opportunity to play sound from 60 Hz. You will lose bright musical impressions if to do this cut. The symmetry in speakers position may not to be with ideal (equal) distance to listener.

what do u suggest plz tell all the steps needed

 

[basscleaner]

Firstly, try to look for good acoustics consulting firm or an expert, if you want to get the best sound in your room. Secondly, ask them to prepare the technical task for results you need to get. What results? Look. Your FR (frequencies Response) must be smooth and maximum close to linear character in range 20 to 20k Hz. Deviations from this must be as minimal, as possible. Usually +- 2 dB is considered like not bad. Construction and finishing elements have to be free from rattle even at maximum SPL (sound pressure level, i.e. loudness) of your speakers. Boominess inside your room must be optimum, for small rooms usually in range 0.25 - 0.35 sec for reverberation times for all FR spectra, but for LF range it may be a little bit higher. You must feel your stereo image significantly between front speakers (better in the middle of stereo base) with good permission for mid and high frequencies. Thirdly, your soundproofing must have defends level in accordance with sound noise requirements and conditions, which are acceptable in your country. Your speakers system position and point of listening must be approved with room furniture, finishing, light and control devices, corresponding to your main opinion.
And if you are able to pay for this headache of the designer, - go ahead and good luck!

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

Firstly, try to look for good acoustics consulting firm or an expert, if you want to get the best sound in your room. Secondly, ask them to prepare the technical task for results you need to get. What results? Look. Your FR (frequencies Response) must be smooth and maximum close to linear character in range 20 to 20k Hz. Deviations from this must be as minimal, as possible. Usually +- 2 dB is considered like not bad. Construction and finishing elements have to be free from rattle even at maximum SPL (sound pressure level, i.e. loudness) of your speakers. Boominess inside your room must be optimum, for small rooms usually in range 0.25 - 0.35 sec for reverberation times for all FR spectra, but for LF range it may be a little bit higher. You must feel your stereo image significantly between front speakers (better in the middle of stereo base) with good permission for mid and high frequencies. Thirdly, your soundproofing must have defends level in accordance with sound noise requirements and conditions, which are acceptable in your country. Your speakers system position and point of listening must be approved with room furniture, finishing, light and control devices, corresponding to your main opinion.
And if you are able to pay for this headache of the designer, - go ahead and good luck!

did not understand anything but thanks for your time i am using REW and i have found good position for subwoofer but still i have null in 70-89 hz i guess i will use parametric eq svs app to make it smooth. will this work?

 

[basscleaner]

did not understand anything but thanks for your time i am using REW and i have found good position for subwoofer but still i have null in 70-89 hz i guess i will use parametric eq svs app to make it smooth. will this work?

OK, drop it. Use EQ or DSP and enjoy.

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

OK, drop it. Use EQ or DSP and enjoy.

i have 1 question regarding room eq wizard regarding room simulator. if you could help? Suppose i put svs pb 2000 pro on fornt wall sticking to it with 0 inch distance but DEPTH of svs pb 2000 pro itself is 23 inches i mean from back of cabinet of subwoofer to front driver cone its 23 inches so rew will consider this 0 inches off wall or 23?

 

[basscleaner]

As I know (I don't have the latest version of REW), the coordinating limit for sub power point position is 30x15 cm, where 30 cm is minimum distance to front or rear wall and 0 cm for invert sub position. So, if you consider PP at 23 inches for your sub and want to place it sticking to wall, than you have place REW box at 23 - 12 = 11 inches from front wall for usual and 23 inches while invert sub location.

 

[hardcore_gamer29]

As I know (I don't have the latest version of REW), the coordinating limit for sub power point position is 30x15 cm, where 30 cm is minimum distance to front or rear wall and 0 cm for invert sub position. So, if you consider PP at 23 inches for your sub and want to place it sticking to wall, than you have place REW box at 23 - 12 = 11 inches from front wall for usual and 23 inches while invert sub location.

invert sub means?