Replacement or repair?......

[admin_exported]

Ive just had my new samsung plasma get two horizontal lines of dead pixels. I rang Comet where i bought it (31days ago) and they sent an engineer to look at the problem. Today the engineer has said that im entitled due to their policy, a repair as they only replace items if they break within 28 days Am I right to say this is rubbish and should get a replacement unit since it cost me £1000! Any advice would be helpful

 

[bigboss]

Comet is talking rubbish. In fact, it's a criminal offence. EU laws gives you two year replacement rights.

Check this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/jun/05/consumer-rights-returned-goods

 

[jcshutts]

do some research on the sale of goods act 1979. It says something along the lines of in the first six months the onus lies with the retailer to prove that the item is NOT faulty if you are claiming that it is. Either way once the item has been deemed faulty you are able to invoke this act.

It doesn't necessarily give the retailer a carte blanche right for a refund or necessarily a replacement. It requires both parties to be reasonable. I would suggest that if the item is only 31 days old then the retailer may be being a little unreasonable if they are not offering a replacement model. Unfortunately to demonstrate you are being reasonable and the retailer is not being reasonable you have to present the case to a judge in a small claims court - not ideal.

Some people would advise that you may be reasonable to allow the retailer an opportunity to repair the item first. This is only opinion though and ultimately not law. Personally if you are not satisfied with a tv, and it is faulty so soon after purchase the least I would expect is a replacement model if not my money back. But then a judge may consider me to be unreasonable of course!

So where does this leave you. Did you pay by credit card? sometimes the credit card company can use their legal assistance to fight a claim. otherwise I would quote the sale of goods act and see where it gets you. Keep a record of all your dialogue/correspondence just in case you need to show you have been reasonable at a later stage.

good luck.

One other quick point, you may get somewhere if you play the manufacturer off against the retailer. It has worked for me in the past where the manufacturer when presented with the facts have confirmed they would replace the item. when this is presented to Comet they have even less of an argument to try and repair it first.

 

[Anonymous]

cheers for the heads up guys! i will be in contact with comet tomorrow now and will update you on what happens

 

[Anonymous]

hi guys, just to up date you on whats happened. I've spoke to the store manager who said he couldnt do anything but said to contact the repair line and go from there. I did this today in which they said it was down to the manager to decide whether to replace the unit. After this i went back to comet and told him what had been said to me in whcih he insisted it wasn't down to him and says i now need to write a letter to head office. I tried to explain that this was in my rights and said the EU law that Bigboss mentioned, was not valid as we hadnt signed up to this law? and it is fit for purpose and it was a tv that work when i bought it. Some one please help me!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

this is on comets on website: http://www.comet.co.uk/static/services/faults-repairs/faults-repairs

All Comet's electrical products come with a minimum 12 months manufacturer's guarantee, so if your product breaks down or goes wrong in that time we'll repair it for free. If we can't repair it for any reason we'll give you alternative product instead.

• For laundry products like washing machines and tumble driers, as well as fridges, cookers and TVs with a screen size bigger than 21 inches, call our UK Customer Support Centre on 0844 800 95 95. We'll try to help you fix the problem over the phone - it's surprising how often this works. If we can't fix it that way then we'll arrange for one of our engineers to pop round.
• If it's anything else, just take it into your local Comet store. The Comet Customer Help Desk team will test it and either send it away for repair or exchange it (subject to the guarantee).

I'd contact them via email so something is in writing: http://comet.custhelp.com/app/ask

and point them to this thread, as its not doing there name any good and see what reply you get.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi tunasteak. Thank you for the reply but they have offered a repair on the unit which i dont think think is acceptable, when it is only 30 days (i miss counted first time) old and cost me £1000. Am i being unreasonable here in what im saying? and yes i will be writting to comet this evening

 

[jcshutts]

your options are:

accept the option to have the unit repaired.

proceed with a claim under the Sales of Goods Act 1979 - small claims court. You will need to demonstrate you have been reasonable in asking for a replacement.

In my view, it goes in your favour that you are not simply asking for a refund - which many would in your circumstances- me included. You are saying to the retailer that you are prepared to allow them to keep the business but the item is faulty so you want a replacement. They will then have to deal direct with the manufacturer which to be honest for a firm as big as Comet should be a mere drop in the ocean for them. All these facts will be taken into consideration by a judge.

Otherwise you have to accept what they are offering you if you are not prepared or frankly don't have the resource to instigate a claim against them. You could try the following http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/. They will give you advice on what to write in the letter notifying Comet that you hold them in contravention of the Act.

Out of interest, what are your reasons for not wanting to accept the option of repair?

 

[bigblue235]

I tried to explain that this was in my rights and said the EU law that Bigboss mentioned, was not valid as we hadnt signed up to this law? and it is fit for purpose and it was a tv that work when i bought it. Some one please help me!!!!

I usually try to avoid getting involved in these sort of threads now, as people seem to have strong opinions on things related to consumer rights. But you genuinely seem to need advice and others have also mentioned this recently, so I'll try to help. It will be boring, though

There's a lot of misinformation on the web about the the Sale of Goods Act and the particularly EU Regulations/Directive 1999/44/EC. Unfortunately, the EU directive is not a 'two year guarantee' of the type we're used to. What it actually provides is a minimum level of protection to EU consumers, in the form of certain statutory rights. There is a two-year limitation placed on using these statutory rights, so this is why it has been labelled a 'two year guarantee'.

The UK is actually fully compliant with the EU, our legislation was updated in 2003 when the relevant EU regs were transposed into the SOGA. As such, the SOGA now includes the EU regulations and directives, so the SOGA is the only legislation you need refer to.

The confusion about the UK 'opting-out' comes from the fact that countries only had to adopt EU laws where they didn't already have sufficient consumer protection in place, and as the UK had superior protection in many cases we didn't adopt the EU regs in exactly the same form as you can find them on the EC website. The main example being that we have no reference to a two-year period, as the limitation for taking action in the UK was (and is) up to 6 years, which exceeds the EU minimum. People tend to presume that because we have no references to two years, this must mean we haven't complied with the directive, when in actual fact we offer the same 'guarantee', as well as all the other protection the SOGA offers, for up to 6 years.

People tend to quibble either that we haven't adopted the EU directive or that we do have a '2 year guarantee' so I'll point them in the direction of Bucks County Council's Trading Standards division http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/trading_standards/consumer_advice/know-your_rights.page?

Disappointingly, no form of consumer legislation provides you with an automatic replacement or refund of a product after a month. Sorry! The only period where the law will support you in this way is in the initial period of 'acceptance' which is when you are considered to be examining the goods. In this period you can 'reject' the goods, and the contract of sale is considered cancelled, so you get a full refund. There is no time period set in stone for this, but it can be as little as a few days. Many retailers use 28 days as a common-sense time period and this is actually pretty fair. You can of course argue that this is too short a time period, but you'd probably need to take this to a small claims court, or at the very least threaten to! I'd say at 31 days you still have a very fair case to ask for a replacement, but unfortunately I can't point you to any piece of legislation which can back you up as I don't believe there is one

If you have a problem with a product, you can ask for any remedy you wish, but this is where common sense comes into it (as jcshutts mentions). The retailer can offer an alternative remedy if the one you've chosen is disproportionately expensive, so if a repair would cost them £300 but a replacement £700, they can insist on a repair. But it works both ways to an extent, as if the remedy they choose significantly inconveniences you (e.g. if a repair will take considerable time) you can then insist on a replacement.

With regard to the product being 'not fit for purpose', if a repair would return the product to perfect working order then a repair would likely be considered a fair resolution. I'd personally push for a replacement, but with the knowledge that it would be a bonus if I did get one.

The best thing to do would be a quick call to Consumer Advice!

 

[jcshutts]

I like your explanation and articulation of this matter. thank you.

My knowledge only comes as a consumer seeking previous redress for a sales contract that went wrong. I found the advice varied but it came down to in simple terms, trying to negotiate a suitable solution with the retailer. I still feel that the author of the thread, in my opinion is being more than reasonable not to want to be without the TV and trust someone else to be careful with it whilst he waits for them to repair it. For a premium product there should be a premium service. Only my views though!

 

[Anonymous]

Comet are total )$^)&($)£)£ks

Trying to increase their profit margin but flogging extended warranties when they're not needed. Some don't even say what the manufacturer's warranty pertaining to what product. From what i understand the first year the onus is indeed on the Store to were you'd purchased to offer a remedy. The 'Store Manager' is your typical guy who wants to throb you off and not be concern of your problem; simply directing you to their customer service line.

Sometimes a little 'persistence' as also 'knowledge' being used when engaging with a 'Store Manager' will stand your position and they will mostly cave in to the problem.

I would persist with a 'replacement'. A 'repair' is justifiable only by the choice of the buyer. You can state that you don't want the 'bother' of the current problem recurring.

So what are you going to do then with your TV?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi guys some really great info here, which i will persue on when ive written to head office about this. I still think a replacement is only acceptable. Sure it sounds like im being a big baby about the situation, but when you pay soo much for a item you expect it to atleast last a couple of years before anything goes wrong, not 30 days. Hopefully i will have some results by monday as the manager said that if i email the head office, these matters are normally delt with in 1-2 days. Cheers again, but i wont be buying from comet again at this rate

 

[bigblue235]

You just sound like someone who's disappointed by a product he's bought. Nowt wrong there. Been there, done that

I've had 5 TVs that have gone wonky!

As I said earlier, the best thing to do is to give Consumer Advice a quick ring. They're usually very helpful. If they support your view that you're entitled to a refund then that should speed things along. Very few retailers will bother continuing a dispute if there's an official opinion on the matter. If they don't feel you're entitled to a replacement, that'll make things a bit trickier, but at least you'll know where you stand and how to proceed.

Best of luck with it, hope it gets sorted to your satisfaction!

 

[Anonymous]

bigblue im not dissappointed with the product. I love it! Veary angry that its broken already and after paying alot of money out for something so new that im told its only worthy of a repair! All i want is a new one. But I will be giving consumer advice a ring aswel tomorrow to see where i stand on this matter. but thank you for the advice

 

[bigblue235]

Ah, that was maybe poorly worded. I just meant that you were disappointed that it was faulty

 

[kinda]

Yes, Sale of Good Act 1979 Amended says if the goods are faulty within the first 6 months then they are considered to have been delivered in a faulty state, and not fit for purpose.

The vendor, not the manufacturer, is bound to prove they were OK when delivered, (impossible really), or incur all costs in taking the item back, and repairing or replacing it.

I've pushed this on a sub and got them to pay to take it back to the shop in another city and eventually send me a new one.

The thing is as long as they accept that they need to take it back I think the likely outcome for two rows of dead pixels would be a new set.

But if you make a bit of a rumpus with Comet or Samsung they may just sort out a new on without looking at a repair. They'll be aware that you may post on forums like this and 31 days is a short time. I've heard Samung are pretty good on returns.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi ramzijw,

My name's Andy and I'm from Comet.

I was sorry to note the problems that you have been experiencing with your television.

It is normal procedure for one of our engineers to inspect your television and where possible will attempt to repair as quickly as possible however, due to the information you have provided I would like to look into this matter further for you . Therefore, to enable me to look into this matter further I respectfully request you to please send an email to me using the below link, and quoting your user name "ramzijw" in the subject line.

https://comet.custhelp.com

I assure you upon receiving your email, this issue will receive our full attention.

Regards,

Andy

 

[jcshutts]

Andy, I'm impressed! Hopefully we will get to know how things pan out.

 

[bob.g]

Andy,

I am having a parallel problem with PC World about a (less than 6 months old) laptop PC that continually fails with the same problem, but they will not accept it is faulty and replace it. One of their guys mentioned to me that it had to go back to them for repair a minimum of five times before they would consider a replacement or refund

With respect, the text of your message above is almost identical to that used by PC World when attempting to send me into yet another circle of sending the laptop back to the TechGuys, to be told there's nothing wrong but for the fault to reappear within 48 hours.

I've had enough and won't stand for this any more, and my advice to the OP is to write to Comet HO, quoting the relevant legislation, and request a replacement or refund - that's what I'm doing with PC World.

 

[kena]

Think Andy should be given time to review and comment (Did note he didn't give full name or position within company tho) , tho personally I agree that for a 1K TV a replacement NOT repair would be what I would be after.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there andy! Thank you for reading this thread. Sorry i have been away with my university so havent been able to look up whats been said. I will be emailing you today about my situation. Will update everyone else on here what happens!

 

[Oldboy]

bigblue235,

Just been reading through this thread and wanted to say what a great post in respect to consumer rights, excellently worded and clear, many thanks! I find the whole consumer rights very confusing at times and this really helped

ramzijw,

All i can say is that if i were in your situation i too would want a brand new replacement tv! I had a similar situation with Amazon at the beginning of the year when a Sony 40EX503 i bought developed a fault after 6 weeks, it was of similar value to your tv at that time too (£900) and i had a brand new replacement tv the next day. The problems seem to stem from different retailers having vastly different ways of dealing with faulty tv's, for example i'm sure if i had bought that tv from comet i would have gone through exactly the same situation as you are now. I truly hope that the post from comet helps you in your situation and that you get it resolved quickly but please let us know how you get on

 

[bigblue235]

Cheers

It's only my understanding of things, but it's based on a fair bit of time spent referring to the relevant legislation, speaking to Consumer Advice & Trading Standards, and so on.

Your post (and the one from jcshutts) makes a pleasant change. I do hesitate to offer advice as people get overly worked up about this sort of thing. So many people just form their own interpretations of what they read on the net, or present anecdotal evidence to 'prove' why there is an 'EU 2-year warranty'. If I link to some actual facts to the contrary someone ask why I'm "taking the retailers side"; someone else will know some hot-shot lawyers; someone else will have managed a shop (once, for a day)...

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry to read of your defective goods.

I had a problem like yours and you you might like to take a read of my thread on this.
Had a result after sticking to my guns. Put in a search and it should take you to it.

2 Year Guarantees on all purchases

 

[bigblue235]

Here's another link, in case anyone is intrigued by the supposed 'EU two year guarantee'

UK Parliament website: http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snha-02239.pdf

2 Is there an EU-wide two year consumer guarantee?

Many people are mistaken in thinking that the purpose of Directive 1999/44/EC, 'On certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees', is to give consumers a minimum two years guarantee for all goods. In fact, this EU Directive, implemented in the UK by the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002, has added little to already existing UK consumer protection law under the SGA 1979

Under this Directive, all Member States have to ensure that "a retailer could be held liable for all 'non-conformities' (i.e. defects) which manifest in the good within two years from delivery". However, this requirement is not a two-year legal guarantee (although, rather confusingly, the Directive's title describes it as such); this is because goods are not legally required to last for those two years. It simply provides that consumer goods must conform to the sales contract at the time of delivery

And the one I posted earlier in the thread - Bucks County Council's Trading Standards section, an article entitled "Euro Myth" http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/trading_standards/consumer_advice/know-your_rights.page?

Some consumers wrongly believe that they have consumer rights under an European Union directive (1999/44/EU), which gives them a two year warranty/guarantee on goods that they have purchased. Whilst indeed this is the case in certain parts of the EU where the directive provides a minimum base line of consumer protection. The UK did not fully adopt the directive because English law already provides far superior protection than the EU directive

This all comes down to the terminology used. The EU directive is obviously referred to as a 'guarantee', but it's just not a 'guarantee' in the sense that we're used to. In the UK, 'warranty' and 'guarantee' refer to the same thing, the product warranty we receive when we buy something. As such, the cover that the EU directive and SOGA provide isn't referred to as a 'guarantee' here in the UK.

And with regard to this particular aspect of things, as Duncan Bannatyne might say "I'm oot"