Replace Mission 753 speakers with what?

[treesey]

....yes I know you are bored with my question, and yes I know it's my ears not yours, but I would like a shortlist please of speakers to replace the 753s, which I love 90% of the time, but they don't always deliver nice high frequencies, with my set-up and my room and my songs.

Floorstanders please to keep the wife happy. Say up to 1000 GBP new, but would rather spend less 2nd hand.

Happy to change amplifier (but not sure on budget), but at the moment I have
Arcam Delta 290
or
Yamaha DSP AX763 https://www.whathifi.com/yamaha/dsp-ax763/review
both of which can bi-amp

So I'm thinking
Dali Oberon 5
or
older Monitor Audio Silver or S something
or
Spendor something
or

Thanks!

And here's a photo of my lovelies, just so you can see whom you are casting aside.....

 

[Al ears]

Dali Oberon 7

 

[MUSICRAFT]

OP I used to own 753's and they are excellent speakers. I don't think you need to change the 753's as I don't believe you've heard the best from them yet.

Anyway, I am extremely busy at the moment so I'll get back to you with a more detailed response. In the meantime please accept my apology for the delay.

 

[treesey]

No worries. Very kind. I'm not in a rush. I'll probably be buying another amplifier and maybe some speakers before deciding on what to keep. Hence my other thread asking for amplifier advice on the 753s.

 

[rainsoothe]

Wharfedale Linton (with the stands).

 

[bigfish786]

Triangle borea br08 or br09 may be worth a look/listen. Available in wife friendly colours too.

id love to re home those missions, always wanted a pair, really like their design.

 

[treesey]

Thanks all - keep 'em coming.

Interesting to see there's no common suggestion, but that's the whole 'to my ears' thing.

For new, what about the new Wharfedale 12.3 or Evo 4.4? No fans?

 

[treesey]

Dali Oberon 7

I've just noticed that the Dali 5 or 7 are not bi-wireable. Clearly Dali do not see this as being an issue, but the old Missions did like that extra power.

 

[Al ears]

I've just noticed that the Dali 5 or 7 are not bi-wireable. Clearly Dali do not see this as being an issue, but the old Missions did like that extra power.

noted, but in my opinion biwiring isn't going to improve a speaker, there are plenty that don't provide this facility for a reason.
ducks for cover....

 

[treesey]

Ducks for dinner.

What about the Spendor S8e?

 

[Al ears]

Ducks for dinner.

What about the Spendor S8e?

not heard them but never met a bad Spendor
Need decent amplification though

 

[treesey]

Arcam A19?

 

[treesey]

OK so I decided to do a proper test, though this meant dismantling a few things.

If you want to skip the waffle, go to the last sentence if you want to give some advice

I grabbed the Yamaha away from the surround sound room, leaving spaghetti junction for another day...

So to recap:
Source - Sony 555ESD which has *the* fabled transport, a decent DAC and is made quite literally like a tank, except the Sony is heavier.
I listened to old and new recordings, from Kate Bush, The Cure, Steely Dan (remastered) to Pink Floyd, Coldplay's Ghost Stories and even Lady Gaga for a bit of fun.

Amplifiers:
Arcam Delta 290, in very good low use condition.
Yamaha DSP-AX763, set to 'Pure Direct' mode, so it just uses minimum circuits and 95 w per channel into 8ohms, so I am told, as I wanted to make sure 'lack of power' wasn't a factor.

Speakers:
Mission 753 - Long-time use but probably gently so.
vs
Monitor Audio 'Ugly Sisters' edition, probably an MA5, probably with replaced bass units.

Results:
The big surprise was how good the ancient MA5 sound. They were disadvantaged by being too high, upside-down, and had cable with slightly fewer strands.
(To simplify the results, lets just say both speakers had more of everything good with the Yamaha. It's a very 'musical' AVR. But the 290 wasn't bad in any way.)

I stood up, sat down, moved in and moved out. The room is very long.

1 - the Missions struggled with the older recordings - as I said my original gripe is they lose control of high frequencies - Kate Bush and The Cure in particular, but even Coldplay suffered. But they do have a great midrange and particularly good imaging - the vocal and instruments were more discernible over the MAs
2 - The MA5s sounded so much better with the higher frequencies of Kate's vocals on e.g. Army Dreamers so that I got goosebumps - also vocals certainly more to the front, but as a song it was simply more enjoyable. Probably the 'correct' amount of bass on the older recordings, though some of the over-slick Coldplay recordings had too much - and sometimes not tight enough. Also slightly less imaging than the 753s, and certainly less midrange.

What does this tell me? That I enjoy the MA sound (of decades ago), but need a better soundstage, a better controlled bass and a bit more midrange. Which is what the 753s were supposed to give me.

So - advice please. (And I will go and get some demos and maybe take the MAs with me.)

Does the solution sound like a Dali, or is it simply a floorstanding/modern Monitor Audio that I need?

Thanks!

 

[gasolin]

Try something that isn't old or a surround receiver and get the missions serviced

Even something like a Marantz PM6005/6006 should be really good

 

[treesey]

Thanks for the advice, but just a newer similar amp won't make much difference. I've done that before.

And the 753s do not need a service - they are effectively 'new', unless you mean replacing crossovers etc. and I can't see that making any difference.

 

[FMIB]

From my experience, I would agree with you that tracks from Kate Bush and The Cure would be high on the list of a fatiguing listen.
My 753's were the very first, I upgraded to new plinths. Over the years I had a couple of tweeters fail and replacements did not change the sonic traits.
Whilst owning I moved through different amplification upgrades and none changed the tweeter response.
When positioned correctly, the imaging was fantastic, but I could never get away from the fatigue during long listening sessions.
I don't have any experience of listening to current speaker offerings in the price range you consider, just avoid anything where reviews mention things like "bright", "careful partnering needed"
Good luck

 

[treesey]

Thanks - that's exactly my feeling too (imaging vs fatigue).

What speakers did/do you have to replace them, old or new?

From my experience, new is certainly not a guarantee of better (or even 'as good')

 

[FMIB]

Its a very long time ago, but I think my initial replacement were the original Quad 11L's (which I still have) before moving to Usher Be718's and then the Usher Dancer Mini 2's

 

[davidf]

And the 753s do not need a service - they are effectively 'new', unless you mean replacing crossovers etc. and I can't see that making any difference.

And for that reason, I’d look at sticking with the Missions and looking at a much more capable amplifier. Back when the Missions were still relatively new, I remember installing a pair with an Audiolab 8000 pre/power (early 90s, back when Audiolab was still the real Audiolab), and the pairing just sang. I’d heard the 753s with plenty of integrated amps, but they never sounded that good. The 8000 power was a bit of a workhorse, and back then was the go-to power amplifier if you needed something stable to drive awkward loads - and it was cheap. I was very surprised at how the Missions dealt with a power amplifier like this bolted to them, seeing as the whole design is based around pretty cheap drivers, they responded really well to better amplification.

You’re unlikely to get much around the £1k mark nowadays with that sort of capability, so I’d look around on the used market for something that will grab the Missions by the balls and show you what they’re really capable of.

 

[treesey]

Thanks - and points that I've tried to investigate with bi-amping the 753s from the Yamaha - which is 95w from each sub-amp if you see what I mean. Absolutely an improvement, but with the recordings it's still too tiring. And I know those high frequencies can sound much better even with the old MA5s, at the cost of image and midrange and bass control.
Yes a better amplifer would help, (which is why on my other thread I asked for recommendations) but I can't see better amplification changing the fundamentals of the speaker.
I might try a good used Arcam A39 (which must be 'better' than old Audiolab?), but would that really make the highs behave?

 

[davidf]

The Yamaha isn’t up to driving the 753s properly, and bi-amping with the same power supply won’t help at all. I don’t think you currently have the budget to do what you need to achieve. The right amp will reign in the 753’s upper registers, and bring more out of them as well.

 

[FMIB]

I beg to differ. With a £1000 budget I am sure are there are plenty of speakers out there that will immediately resolve the posters issue.
I paired with various integrated and pre/power combo's and none resolved the fatigue issue. Maybe they were the wrong choice, but its far easier to change out the speakers than going down a road to find that elusive amp that might resolve the issue.

 

[treesey]

The Yamaha isn’t up to driving the 753s properly, and bi-amping with the same power supply won’t help at all. I don’t think you currently have the budget to do what you need to achieve. The right amp will reign in the 753’s upper registers, and bring more out of them as well.

I don't disagree, (and I haven't really been strict with a budget), but I keep asking for amp combination recommendations, and all I have (I think) is the Audiolab 8000 c/p, the chances of finding which in great condition is 'low'..... and what if the fatigue on the older recordings is still there?

If someone could actually recommend any other amp, as per my first thread on the subject, that they know tames the 753, I'm all ears.

Otherwise, as FMIB says, common sense dictates I try different speakers.

 

[gasolin]

less than 500 euros in Denmark https://www.dba.dk/forstaerkersaet-audiolab/id-1087239712/

Ebay uk https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22494449...customid=380798e4-c080-11ec-a1c8-336262336637

 

[treesey]

Thanks - I'd spotted that and another, but is there really no other amp, ever, that works with the 753s to transform the trebles?