Replace Mission 753 speakers with what?

[treesey]

The A-400 is the real deal. Bottom line is that as good as the 753's are however and I am sorry to this they and I strongly believe this will also be the case with the 555ESD are still not up to getting anywhere the best from the A-400.

Thanks - another factor which I have not mentioned is that I need a phono stage - universally it seems the internet suggests the A-400s is not great.

Also I have found really interesting info on the 75x crossovers/internals especially the tweeter resistor value being too low, randomly changed over production lifetime, mismatched on a production run, and even missing. So I'll be taking the 753s and 752s apart and seeing what is in there. The info seems to be from a reliable source who clearly understands electronics, and although they suggest that the tweeter was never the greatest, having the correct resistor removes the imbalance.

To my ears, the 555ESD sounds amazing directly into the MW60 headphones - more importantly, it has probably the best overbuilt frame wrapped around probably the best mechanism, filled with OTT components - if you are interested in CDs as a source, do you know about the Lampizator website/research? If so please have a delve through this, starting with the info on the 555 of course.

sony CDP-555esd

Sony CDP-555ESD, TDA1541, Lampizator

lampizator.eu

 

[Symples]

View attachment 3482


OK so I decided to do a proper test, though this meant dismantling a few things.

If you want to skip the waffle, go to the last sentence if you want to give some advice

I grabbed the Yamaha away from the surround sound room, leaving spaghetti junction for another day...

So to recap:
Source - Sony 555ESD which has *the* fabled transport, a decent DAC and is made quite literally like a tank, except the Sony is heavier.
I listened to old and new recordings, from Kate Bush, The Cure, Steely Dan (remastered) to Pink Floyd, Coldplay's Ghost Stories and even Lady Gaga for a bit of fun.

Amplifiers:
Arcam Delta 290, in very good low use condition.
Yamaha DSP-AX763, set to 'Pure Direct' mode, so it just uses minimum circuits and 95 w per channel into 8ohms, so I am told, as I wanted to make sure 'lack of power' wasn't a factor.

Speakers:
Mission 753 - Long-time use but probably gently so.
vs
Monitor Audio 'Ugly Sisters' edition, probably an MA5, probably with replaced bass units.

Results:
The big surprise was how good the ancient MA5 sound. They were disadvantaged by being too high, upside-down, and had cable with slightly fewer strands.
(To simplify the results, lets just say both speakers had more of everything good with the Yamaha. It's a very 'musical' AVR. But the 290 wasn't bad in any way.)

I stood up, sat down, moved in and moved out. The room is very long.

1 - the Missions struggled with the older recordings - as I said my original gripe is they lose control of high frequencies - Kate Bush and The Cure in particular, but even Coldplay suffered. But they do have a great midrange and particularly good imaging - the vocal and instruments were more discernible over the MAs
2 - The MA5s sounded so much better with the higher frequencies of Kate's vocals on e.g. Army Dreamers so that I got goosebumps - also vocals certainly more to the front, but as a song it was simply more enjoyable. Probably the 'correct' amount of bass on the older recordings, though some of the over-slick Coldplay recordings had too much - and sometimes not tight enough. Also slightly less imaging than the 753s, and certainly less midrange.

What does this tell me? That I enjoy the MA sound (of decades ago), but need a better soundstage, a better controlled bass and a bit more midrange. Which is what the 753s were supposed to give me.

So - advice please. (And I will go and get some demos and maybe take the MAs with me.)

Does the solution sound like a Dali, or is it simply a floorstanding/modern Monitor Audio that I need?

Thanks!

I picked up a pair of Tannoy Revolution XT8F for £750 new (damaged box) and I really like the sound of them.
You might want to give them a try.

 

[plastic penguin]

I picked up a pair of Tannoy Revolution XT8F for £750 new (damaged box) and I really like the sound of them.
You might want to give them a try.

They need IMHO fairly smooth amplification. Get that right and are a bargain.

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks - another factor which I have not mentioned is that I need a phono stage - universally it seems the internet suggests the A-400s is not great.

Also I have found really interesting info on the 75x crossovers/internals especially the tweeter resistor value being too low, randomly changed over production lifetime, mismatched on a production run, and even missing. So I'll be taking the 753s and 752s apart and seeing what is in there. The info seems to be from a reliable source who clearly understands electronics, and although they suggest that the tweeter was never the greatest, having the correct resistor removes the imbalance.

To my ears, the 555ESD sounds amazing directly into the MW60 headphones - more importantly, it has probably the best overbuilt frame wrapped around probably the best mechanism, filled with OTT components - if you are interested in CDs as a source, do you know about the Lampizator website/research? If so please have a delve through this, starting with the info on the 555 of course.

sony CDP-555esd

Sony CDP-555ESD, TDA1541, Lampizator

lampizator.eu

I seem to remember @record_spot used to own Mission standmounts with a Onkyo receiver. IIRC it was TX 8250.

 

[treesey]

Thanks PP and Symples - I've actually been looking at XT6F reviews from actual owners, and many people say 'too bright'

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks PP and Symples - I've actually been looking at XT6F reviews from actual owners, and many people say 'too bright'

I heard the Tannoy Precision 6.1 with a Cyrus amp years ago. Very good but need an amp like Arcam, NAD, Roksan to smooth off any edge to them.

Otherwise look at PMC GB1s. Big fan of the older models. Pretty versatile speaker.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I did.

Good to hear and I am content with what I've said so far.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Thanks - another factor which I have not mentioned is that I need a phono stage - universally it seems the internet suggests the A-400s is not great.

To my ears, the 555ESD sounds amazing directly into the MW60 headphones - more importantly, it has probably the best overbuilt frame wrapped around probably the best mechanism, filled with OTT components - if you are interested in CDs as a source, do you know about the Lampizator website/research? If so please have a delve through this, starting with the info on the 555 of course.

The A-400's strengths lie with its line level inputs. The A-400's phono stage is still good though and it'll still take a £500 plus on an separate phono stage to gain a worthwhile difference.

I am aware of Lampizator and I don't doubt the 555ESD is a quality player in it's own right however around thirteen years on from the 555ESD Sony's last couple of battleship like build and with a performance to match players the SCD-777ES and the SCD-1 both with CD's and SACD's were still not up to getting the best from the A-400.

 

[treesey]

Golly. I'll see if I can find a looked-after one. Thanks again.

 

[treesey]

I am aware of Lampizator and I don't doubt the 555ESD is a quality player in it's own right however around thirteen years on from the 555ESD Sony's last couple of battleship like build and with a performance to match players the SCD-777ES and the SCD-1 both with CD's and SACD's....

...yeah but they ain't as pretty as the 555ESD

 

[record_spot]

I seem to remember @record_spot used to own Mission standmounts with a Onkyo receiver. IIRC it was TX 8250.

Not quite PP, I had Mission 751s in the early 90s with an Arcam Alpha 5 amp and Marantz CD-52II, the Onkyos I've had were the TX8050 networked stereo receiver, and later a TX-NR818 with a pair of Tannoy DC4s. I later used the 818 with a pair of Acoustic Energy AE22 actives.

These days, I use a pair of AVI ADM 9RSS actives, with a Linn Kolektor preamp. I use an Arcam CD73 and Kenwood DP-990SG CD players and a modded Thorens TD160 turntable. The Missions however, were great speakers (as were a pair of 752s I later owned - the originals incidentally, not the duller Freedom models). Happy days, but the setup I have just now is about as good as I'll ever own. Best I've heard.

 

[record_spot]

I am aware of Lampizator...

That's why I nabbed the Arcam CD73!

On another note, I had the Pioneer A400 for a while. Rather overrated I felt. Used it with a pile of gear but for an amp that turned up at - what - £250? It was okay. For the 1990s when it came out though, it probably seemed like a revelation. Overly bright and quite thin-sounding across the board I found and not quite deserving of the fanfares it subsequently received.

IMO obvs!

 

[Al ears]

That's why I nabbed the Arcam CD73!

On another note, I had the Pioneer A400 for a while. Rather overrated I felt. Used it with a pile of gear but for an amp that turned up at - what - £250? It was okay. For the 1990s when it came out though, it probably seemed like a revelation. Overly bright and quite thin-sounding across the board I found and not quite deserving of the fanfares it subsequently received.

IMO obvs!

agree, to my mind the A300R was better.

 

[treesey]

Thanks all - I've just sourced a local 2nd hand pair of PMC GB1i and will get another amp for compare and contrast, then decide what combination works for me.

I'd keep the lot but I've sold this spate of hi-fi-buying to the wife by promising to sell on anything other than 2 complete sets (I have a Polk Audio surround 5.1 speakers which lives with the Yamaha (7.2) at the moment which need a front pair of speakers. The 753s sound (and look) very good with the Polks doing the high frequencies. But I have the 752s as well

I promise I'll do an old vs new speakers test in a week or so's time.

 

[treesey]

agree, to my mind the A300R was better.

They certainly seem to go for more money today than the A400......

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Golly. I'll see if I can find a looked-after one. Thanks again.

You're welcome.

Btw, to dig into the A-400's potential the amplifier must be working at its full specification.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

On another note, I had the Pioneer A400 for a while. Rather overrated I felt. Used it with a pile of gear but for an amp that turned up at - what - £250? It was okay. For the 1990s when it came out though, it probably seemed like a revelation. Overly bright and quite thin-sounding across the board I found and not quite deserving of the fanfares it subsequently received.

Hopefully someday you'll get to experience the A-400 exceptional qualities when used with loudspeakers and source components of appropriate quality and correctly system matched.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

to my mind the A300R was better.

Yeah right. This from someone who believes that subwoofers are inferior to loudspeakers.

The A-300R is nothing more than a pretender to the A-400.

 

[record_spot]

Hopefully someday you'll get to experience the A-400 exceptional qualities when used with loudspeakers and source components of appropriate quality and correctly system matched.

I use actives these days and won't be going back to a separate integrated amp again. In any case, if I needed to source *just the right* gear, when I'd lumped it with a wide range of - appropriate quality - gear already, that's the kind of gear that's more trouble than it's worth.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I use actives these days and won't be going back to a separate integrated amp again. In any case, if I needed to source *just the right* gear, when I'd lumped it with a wide range of - appropriate quality - gear already, that's the kind of gear that's more trouble than it's worth.

Firstly I never said or suggested that to hear the A-400 you'd have to go back to a separate integrated amplifier. You might get to hear the A-400 at a friends, dealers or at a show.

Anyway, to reiterate hopefully someday you'll get to experience the A-400's exceptional qualities when used with loudspeakers and source components of appropriate quality and correctly system matched.

 

[record_spot]

Anyway, to reiterate hopefully someday you'll get to experience the A-400's exceptional qualities when used with loudspeakers and source components of appropriate quality and correctly system matched.

I already have thanks. My views remain unchanged and as stated.

 

[plastic penguin]

Firstly I never said or suggested that to hear the A-400 you'd have to go back to a separate integrated amplifier. You might get to hear the A-400 at a friends, dealers or at a show.

Anyway, to reiterate hopefully someday you'll get to experience the A-400's exceptional qualities when used with loudspeakers and source components of appropriate quality and correctly system matched.

Rick. Can you not grasp not everyone has the same taste as you? You are exactly the same with that antiquated Rotel 1062.

 

[Al ears]

Rick. Can you not grasp not everyone has the same taste as you? You are exactly the same with that antiquated Rotel 1062.

Just about the same as everyone else on this forum.......
Can I mention a Leema Pulse?
However, I seem to recall this post was about speakers....

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I already have thanks. My views remain unchanged and as stated.

Oh well.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

with that antiquated Rotel 1062.

And yet some members have subsequently bought RA-1062's.