Reliability of HiFi gear: rant ahoy

[Al ears]

An acquired taste in every respect (even the 'Einklang' model name 🤪)

I quite like 'different '......

 

[davidf]

A review is one person’s opinion. Granted, that person presumably sees far more equipment pass through their listening room than the average person, so should be in some position to comment on sound quality etc. As a reviewer, you have to describe the sound of that product - just saying it’s got a bit less treble than average or more bass than usual isn’t enough. They have to get creative. And there’s no way they’ll have product long enough to form any opinion on reliability, unless the product is faulty out of the box (which will never get mentioned anyway), or fails within the first week or so. And to be fair, is that a reliable impression of a brand’s overall reliability? That may be one product in a thousand, or more.

So a reviewer listens to a product. He has to describe the sound, based on his/her interpretation. We read it, and take our own interpretation of what they’re describing. We listen to the product, and find they’re right, completely wrong, or somewhere between, because we’re all different. We have different frequency responses in our hearing, different tonal preferences for what we like to hear (probably based on our hearing limitations), and far more importantly, we’re hearing the product in a room we’re not familiar with, and if we’re lucky, in our own room, both of which are completely different to that of the reviewer, and likely on the end of different electronics too.

If you don’t know the reviewer’s preferences, it doesn’t really matter what they think.

 

[AJM1981]

I was referring to the sound of the products. Clearly it’s not fair to criticise a review because they didn’t predict that my copy would break. I believe it is very hard to predict longevity.

Unfortunately most reviews use terms that to me are meaningless: rich, warm, dry, authoritative, sweet, articulate and so on. I can understand what is meant by an exaggerated treble, or a lack of bass. My Arcam Solo Movie was described in some reviews as having a rich, warm sound, whatever that means. Mine has a muddy sound, with a reduced treble, and little soundstage.

At least when there are measurements, you have something that is not totally subjective.

I can only mention some things I came across. I think it is fairly difficult to predict shelf life but with additions like gels I am quite sceptical and those are usually a dealbreaker for me personally.

I barely see anything about this topic in reviews. I also doubt if anyone would give it a shot as consistancy is key, so technically opening up all models is required for a full analysis and this could harm sales.

B&W seems to have used some gel around some of its tweeters in their late 90s / early 2000s and some speakers in general had elastic elements that turn brittle over time.

A company like Q-Accoustics uses a trademarked "gelcore" and I don't have any idea about how much time it can handle, but it is not what I would buy as a product for life..

 

[Noddy]

As a reviewer, you have to describe the sound of that product - just saying it’s got a bit less treble than average or more bass than usual isn’t enough. They have to get creative.

I agree with most of your post. And you’ve hit the nail on the head here. Why is it not enough to say the speaker has an elevated treble, or an ill defined treble? Because they have a column to fill, so you get the usual tedious drivel such as "Listening to Nylon Gusset’s latest album, I was struck by the soaring highs, and delicate tonality of Hugh Jarse’s triangle playing and the sweet finesse of Jo Kerr’s kazoo. The intro was unexpectedly punctuated by the sound of a mouse braking wind and scuttling off over the wooden studio floor." It’s not hard to write formulaic reviews.

Seriously though it really is enough to comment on frequency response and so on instead of the above drivel. Does it reproduce voices convincingly? Does it work with jazz, folk, punk, metal, ambient, classical, choral etc. I have some expensive speakers where the voices of female singers are a bit odd, and they don’t work at all well with metal, or classic rock, but they are superb with classical and folk. That is because they are very strongly voiced, which you would not know from reading countless reviews.

Then we have other issues, such as directionality, wall friendliness, ease of driving and so on. But it takes much more effort to test those aspects.

And again, this really is not dircted at WHF, they all do it.

An acquired taste in every respect (even the 'Einklang' model name 🤪)

I rather like the design and it tests well compared to many well known speakers. Einklang means unified, but as you say, it doesn’t travel well. I might buy them when I win the lottery with the ticket I didn’t buy.

 

[matthewpianist]

I can only mention some things I came across. I think it is fairly difficult to predict shelf life but with additions like gels I am quite sceptical and those are usually a dealbreaker for me personally.

I barely see anything about this topic in reviews. I also doubt if anyone would give it a shot as consistancy is key, so technically opening up all models is required for a full analysis and this could harm sales.

B&W seems to have used some gel around some of its tweeters in their late 90s / early 2000s and some speakers in general had elastic elements that turn brittle over time.

A company like Q-Accoustics uses a trademarked "gelcore" and I don't have any idea about how much time it can handle, but it is not what I would buy as a product for life..

There's a risk of degradation with many materials, not least capacitors used in loudspeaker crossovers. It's highly unlikely that modern speakers will fail early as long as they are used with respect.

The 3000i (and I believe new 5000) series Q Acoustics speakers don't use the gel core construction, but even so it wouldn't put me off a pair of Concept series. The speakers are so good, and I trust the Q team to get things as right as possible.

Everything has a finite lifespan - look at the ferro-fluid tweeters used in some older designs, and the foam surrounds on many speakers including Heybrooks. It's just a matter of course.

 

[AJM1981]

There's a risk of degradation with many materials, not least capacitors used in loudspeaker crossovers. It's highly unlikely that modern speakers will fail early as long as they are used with respect.

The 3000i (and I believe new 5000) series Q Acoustics speakers don't use the gel core construction, but even so it wouldn't put me off a pair of Concept series. The speakers are so good, and I trust the Q team to get things as right as possible.

Everything has a finite lifespan - look at the ferro-fluid tweeters used in some older designs, and the foam surrounds on many speakers including Heybrooks. It's just a matter of course.

Ah yes, fhe ferro fluids. I also trusted the B&W team and yes, eventually tear and wear may occur. But in cases the tweeter seems to be the first occurring problem far before other problems arrive within a timespan of about 12 years or so. So, for me having seen the ones trying to painstakingly fix some issues, I don't simply put my trust in a product containing anything that can dry out.

 

[matthewpianist]

Thinking about this in the light of a (dreary) Sunday morning, if I manage to stick with my current kit and I get at least 10 years out of the turntable, amp and speakers I'll be happy that I have had good value. Given that the Rotel CD player has already been for repair once I don't hold out huge hope there, which is a shame because it is one of the best CD players I've ever heard. If it breaks again I will buy an Audiolab 7000CDT, but hopefully that won't be necessary.

I can't think of many components that didn't have a weak point somewhere, even from established brands. The volume/balance control on the Pioneer A400, switches on the later Arcam Alpha amps, wall wart PSUs that start buzzing like mad on Rega turntables...

 

[Nico69]

.......
I can't think of many components that didn't have a weak point somewhere, even from established brands. The volume/balance control on the Pioneer A400, switches on the later Arcam Alpha amps, wall wart PSUs that start buzzing like mad on Rega turntables...

There are some great brands that are built like should last for ever as they are indefinitely repairable e.g. Linn turntables. I bought my Axis from a friend back in 1998. He bought it in 1989. I had to have the board rebuilt with new capacitors a few years back but that's it. Its one of those things that if it goes wrong it can be repaired. If it was an LP12 it could be rebuilt with so many upgraded parts it would be the ultimate 'Trigger's Broom'!!!
I'm hoping my Dalis last as long as my Tannoys as that should see me into my 80's. Amp and CD, not so sure, but like anything if its looked after it lasts longer.

 

[matthewpianist]

There are some great brands that are built like should last for ever as they are indefinitely repairable e.g. Linn turntables. I bought my Axis from a friend back in 1998. He bought it in 1989. I had to have the board rebuilt with new capacitors a few years back but that's it. Its one of those things that if it goes wrong it can be repaired. If it was an LP12 it could be rebuilt with so many upgraded parts it would be the ultimate 'Trigger's Broom'!!!
I'm hoping my Dalis last as long as my Tannoys as that should see me into my 80's. Amp and CD, not so sure, but like anything if its looked after it lasts longer.

I think turntables are relatively simple to keep going - even old budget decks like the Pioneer PL12D can still work a treat if they've been treated with care (and not sent by courier with the platter still in place as with one I received a few years ago). The only major turntable I've heard about is older Roksan Xerxes with sinking problems!

 

[davidf]

I believe Linn themselves haven’t repaired Axis circuit boards for many, many years.

 

[matthewpianist]

I have a flat in Derby where the communal lift keeps breaking down. The argument made by the management company is that the control circuit board is now obsolete and no diagram exists, so the repairer is constantly working on a trial by error basis. I've made the point that any competent electronics engineer should be able to draw a diagram from studying the board and then make a new one, without too much fuss. It's likely the same with hi-fi. Things fail, but none of this stuff is especially challenging for the right people.

 

[Noddy]

I contacted Arcam when my Solo Movie failed. They said contact the dealer. So I phoned Seven Oaks in Guildford, and he explained that until recently Arcam had a flat fee of £150 to inspect the unit, and if it was repairable, a flat repair fee of £600 which includes fhe £150 inspection fee. The unit is not worth that much, in fact it would be cheapee to buy one with a tatty case from eBay, and swap out the circuit boards. Manufacturers charge a huge mark up for repairs, which I guess covers their expenses (keeping items in stock, wages, work area) with a nice profit as befits a premium brand.

Someone would have to analyse the board, and determine the failure point, then repair it, probably not easy. But a skilled electronics person might do it in an hour or two.

30 years ago I took a laptop in to a Tottenham Court Road shop to ask about repairing a loose connector. The young chap said it was easy, £10 only. Then his boss popped out, said it would be £50. Needless to say I left.

 

[matthewpianist]

I would hope that as part of Harman Luxury Audio (and thus Samsung), Arcam could now be much more price efficient for customers given the scale of the company's resources.

 

[npxavar]

Reliable multipurpose electronics are a Japanese specialty. I considered buying the Arcam Solo Music on deep discount 4 years ago but just couldn't ignore the "too good to be true" factor.

 

[Noddy]

Reliable multipurpose electronics are a Japanese specialty. I considered buying the Arcam Solo Music on deep discount 4 years ago but just couldn't ignore the "too good to be true" factor.

Sensible you, it was down to £800 at one point. I paid £1,000. The main problem IMO was that streaming was gaining traction, and it did not support streaming. They had their own stupid wifi streaming app, which was incompatible with iTunes libraries on Apple devices. Why they did not throw in Airplay is beyond me.

I would hope that as part of Harman Luxury Audio (and thus Samsung), Arcam could now be much more price efficient for customers given the scale of the company's resources.

I found the customer service a nightmare. I had to answer a stream of questions, and purchase a new analogue cable and a new Apple DAC dongle to prove the unit was faulty, even though the original cables worked fine with other devices. I had already done countless tests that proved the unit was at fault. And after countless exchanges, and money spent, they just said contact the dealer. I suspect the efficiency gains go into their pockets, rather than reducing price.

And today I confirmed that the Chord Mojo is at fault, the micro USB input is not working. Two years of regular use at work, and then it failed.

 

[Gray]

today I confirmed that the Chord Mojo is at fault, the micro USB input is not working.
[/QUOTE]
And you've just bought a new battery for it 🙁

 

[Noddy]

today I confirmed that the Chord Mojo is at fault, the micro USB input is not working.

And you've just bought a new battery for it 🙁
[/QUOTE]

Fortunately I only spent £14. It does still work as a DAC for a component with an optical out, but not with an iPhone. I doubt it is worth selling now even though it is cosmetically almost like new. I opened it up and saw no obvious defect. It only handles low current too.

Regarding my Arcam amp, someone I met today said he only expects 8 years from an amp, and I read online that amps are the item most likely to fail due to high current and temperature. Class D amps run cooler, so maybe they last longer.

 

[Gray]

[/QUOTE]
someone I met today said he only expects 8 years from an amp
[/QUOTE]
I'd say his expectation is too low (although perhaps increasingly more realistic these days).

I expect (and so far have had) well over 8 years from everything I've bought.
My old amp was (is) 20 years old - It looks, operates and sounds as it did on day 1.

Got to be honest though - I wouldn't bet any money on the new amp lasting half as long - although, for its price, it bloody well needs to 🤨

 

[Noddy]

I'd say his expectation is too low (although perhaps increasingly more realistic these days).

I expect (and so far have had) well over 8 years from everything I've bought.
My old amp was (is) 20 years old - It looks, operates and sounds as it did on day 1.

Got to be honest though - I wouldn't bet any money on the new amp lasting half as long - although, for its price, it bloody well needs to 🤨

Yes my Teac separates lasted 15 years before I sold them.

My belief is that a lot of products today (last 5-10 years) aren’t made to last. I’ve had an expensive frying pan warp, replaced under warranty only to warp again, a very cheap Tesco pan lasted over ten years until I abused it. I have had kitchen items with plastic that becomes sticky after a few years and I had to throw them away. I’ve already mentioned I went through three Apple watches, and two Withings watches, made using glue rather than properly put together unlike real watches. Globalisation increasing competition, making it harder to survive, with an emphasis on social media influencers and magazine reviews perhaps? I could be totally wrong.

 

[davidf]

Amps fail prematurely because they’re not given sufficient ventilation, meaning they run at a higher temperature than they’re designed to. Others, the capacitors fail as the amp is used with a speaker that is too demanding for its capabilities. And abuse, of course. There are still those that think that a volume control can be turned all the way up to obtain an amplifier’s full power.

 

[npxavar]

Amps fail prematurely because they’re not given sufficient ventilation, meaning they run at a higher temperature than they’re designed to. Others, the capacitors fail as the amp is used with a speaker that is too demanding for its capabilities. And abuse, of course. There are still those that think that a volume control can be turned all the way up to obtain an amplifier’s full power.

The capacitor problem is a particularly painful one. Capacitors should be chosen with good safety margin with regards to voltage rating. This a problem for electrolytics since most MKT, MKP etc caps have naturally very large voltage ratings. The next best thing is to upgrade any 85C ones with 105C ones.

 

[podknocker]

Is temperature really an issue for an amp? I see the operating range for many amps and I can't see these things melting, in anything but the hottest of rooms, where it would be too hot for listening anyway.

I can imagine chips struggling with high temps, with CD players going off, or freezing. There are chips in modern amps, but some don't have vents, like the Rega Elex 4 or the new Peachtree GaN1 in another post.

If the Rega's case is the sink and doesn't need vents, then the heat will simply be transferred into the surroundings, or a nearby CD player!

My Dell laptop fits perfect on top of my Audiolab Omnia and so far, there have been no heat related issues.

 

[matthewpianist]

Amps fail prematurely because they’re not given sufficient ventilation, meaning they run at a higher temperature than they’re designed to. Others, the capacitors fail as the amp is used with a speaker that is too demanding for its capabilities. And abuse, of course. There are still those that think that a volume control can be turned all the way up to obtain an amplifier’s full power.

The number of times I've seen system photographs where the amp is inside a unit with sides on it (instead of an open stand) and with a CD player and/or other kit piled on top of it is unbelievable. My Alphason stand is one of the best investments I've made - one component per shelf, plenty of space around all sides of the amplifier and the rest of my kit as well as good isolation.

 

[matthewpianist]

Yes my Teac separates lasted 15 years before I sold them.

My belief is that a lot of products today (last 5-10 years) aren’t made to last. I’ve had an expensive frying pan warp, replaced under warranty only to warp again, a very cheap Tesco pan lasted over ten years until I abused it. I have had kitchen items with plastic that becomes sticky after a few years and I had to throw them away. I’ve already mentioned I went through three Apple watches, and two Withings watches, made using glue rather than properly put together unlike real watches. Globalisation increasing competition, making it harder to survive, with an emphasis on social media influencers and magazine reviews perhaps? I could be totally wrong.

I don't mind the odd failure as long as the repair is dealt with properly. Nothing is infallible. My experiences...

• Display failure on Roksan K2 CD player - dealt with quickly and without fuss by Roksan
• Transport issues on current Rotel CD11 Tribute - dealt with quickly and without fuss by RS and Rotel (so far no repeat of the problem)
• Problems with Cambridge Audio amp, purchased new - replaced without question by RS
• Severe hum through right channel on Rega Brio-R - corrected without any push-back by Audio-T
• Bubbling alloy wheels on Nissan Note bought used from a main dealer - replaced under warranty, again without fuss (this was about 15 years ago)

It's the shoulder shrug situations where I get cross. I had an 04-plate Renault Megan 1.5 Dci which had countless problems (water ingress, general electrical failures, engine management failure etc.) - the manufacturer and dealer were both completely disinterested and I was by no means alone in suffering with this make and model of car.

 

[Noddy]

Amps fail prematurely because they’re not given sufficient ventilation, meaning they run at a higher temperature than they’re designed to. Others, the capacitors fail as the amp is used with a speaker that is too demanding for its capabilities. And abuse, of course. There are still those that think that a volume control can be turned all the way up to obtain an amplifier’s full power.

I don’t doubt that an amp will fail if not properly ventilated. Mine sat on a nice cupboard, exposed on all sides and the top. And it never played loud, in fact it was rarely used because I loathe the Arcam sound!

Surely capacitors would not be damaged by demanding speakers at moderate voumes.