Reliability of HiFi gear: rant ahoy

[Al ears]

thought this was a HIFI Thread 🙈not Mobiles !

Quite so.
Back to the thread please guys.....

 

[Dave_]

What do the TLA and FLA mean?

Mobile Network Operator & Mobile Virtual Network Operator

 

[npxavar]

The 3.5m jack in my 3 years old DragonFly Red doesn't contact one channel well anymore. The warranty was 1 year, but still. Paying 200€ for a usb device with just stereo output, should mean absolutely reliable connector for said output.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The 3.5m jack in my 3 years old DragonFly Red doesn't contact one channel well anymore. The warranty was 1 year, but still. Paying 200€ for a usb device with just stereo output, should mean absolutely reliable connector for said output.

Doesn't help that a lot of such stuff is sealed and, to all intents and purposes, unrepairable.

 

[nopiano]

The 3.5m jack in my 3 years old DragonFly Red doesn't contact one channel well anymore. The warranty was 1 year, but still. Paying 200€ for a usb device with just stereo output, should mean absolutely reliable connector for said output.

Have you tried a spot of switch cleaner on the plug, and some repeated insertion and removal?

 

[JDl]

I am far from impressed by the reliability of hifi gear:

Arcam Solo Movie, bought new six years ago, not used much, I recently discovered that the analogue inputs have obvious hissing and the headphone output does not work. £1,000 down the drain after six years. Mind you, it always sat on top of a nice Ercol media cabinet, so clearly it had a hard life. That said, I always hated it, horrible user interface, muddy sound (warm and rich according to WHF).

Chord Mojo, bought new, failed after just over two years. I have ordered a new battery, in case that is the issue. Possibly £400 down the drain after just over two years. It still looks in nice condition, no scratches.

Audeze Sine headphones. The ear cups fell to pieces after a year. Replaced with nice leather over ear ones. Then the digital cable failed. So I used the standard one. Then an earpiece failed. So, £300 down the drain after four + years. Beautiful sound (not according to WHF though), far better than my HD600.

I have had lots of Sennheiser headphones, including a twenty year old HD600, which are solid and reliable. The HD600 also has replacements for wearable parts such as ear pads. And my Japanese cameras are rock solid. My digital radios are rock solid.

It seems to be boutique hifi brands that fail. Who in their right mind designs a DAC with an internal lithium ion battery, that runs off the battery, which is not user replaceable, knowing full well that these batteries are only good for about 500 recharges? So they know it will last about two years in regular use, and they charge £80 to fit a new battery. And the user interface is awful, really awful. Oh and measurements show that the sound quality is on a par with products costing half as much,

And another thing that cheeses me off is the hifi press, and their reviews. Noone reported the awful Arcam Solo movie UI, or the muddy sound. WHF said it was separates quality. No it isn‘t. None of them mentioned the Chord Mojo battery lifetime. Or the poor UI. And they gushed over the sound quality.

These days I ignore reviews from the mainstream press, all too often they do not match my experiences, and I look at reviews by some YouTubers, and measurements online, then listen for myself.

I agree. Slightly off topic but mainstream car reviewers talk and write things that have no relevance whatsoever to those of us with limited budgets who live in the real world. Perhaps the Hi-Fi Press reviewers are the same. They get to to try much more gear than any of us will ever get our hands on, probably tested under conditions that most people can't replicate so I too question everything I read in the press, whatever it is, and whatever it's about.

 

[JDl]

They’re great if you wrap some fish in foil, with a bit of oil and seasoning. Very quick and healthy, tasty too. Baked potatoes, lots of other stuff too. I cook frozen samosas in mine. I’m not a chip fan, I find them tasteless and greasy, but home made oven chips tossed in a small amount of olive oil and Kikkoman soya sauce, plus black pepper, are not bad, certainly they make a change. I don’t eat meat, but I suspect meat cooks really well in them.

Does it sound good 🙂

 

[npxavar]

I agree. Slightly off topic but mainstream car reviewers talk and write things that have no relevance whatsoever to those of us with limited budgets who live in the real world. Perhaps the Hi-Fi Press reviewers are the same. They get to to try much more gear than any of us will ever get our hands on, probably tested under conditions that most people can't replicate so I too question everything I read in the press, whatever it is, and whatever it's about.

Cars nowadays are very expensive to keep everything running with no problems after 5 years or so. Especially brands like BMW and Mercedes.

 

[matthewpianist]

I agree. Slightly off topic but mainstream car reviewers talk and write things that have no relevance whatsoever to those of us with limited budgets who live in the real world. Perhaps the Hi-Fi Press reviewers are the same. They get to to try much more gear than any of us will ever get our hands on, probably tested under conditions that most people can't replicate so I too question everything I read in the press, whatever it is, and whatever it's about.

Even the most exhaustive review can be based only on limited use of a product, and many things only become apparent after extended use in real world settings. This is one of the challenges for those of us trying to achieve the best sound possible in our home environment - even when we audition it gives only a partial picture of how we will find the component/system over time, and this is one of the reasons why eBay usually has so much relatively young kit to offer. Many people have benefitted from my buying mistakes over the years.

One of my reliability gripes in the past was poor channel tracking with volume controls. Cambridge Audio, for example, made a big deal about using ALPs parts, yet channel balance on many of the Azur models (340A, 540A, 640a and the v2.0 developments) was nowhere near as good as that on competing products from the likes of NAD, Rotel etc. Those amps also suffered reliability issues with the CAP5 protection and with parts failures, and none of these issues were mentioned in mainstream reviews. The channel balance issue certainly should have been picked up by reviews, but the reliability ones could only be discovered with extended use.

 

[Friesiansam]

One thing you never know about any reviewer making a subjective judgement, is how their judgement may be coloured by recent experience. For example, any other car is going to seem noisy, to someone who has just driven many miles in a new Rolls Royce. I imagine it will work the same way with HiFi.

 

[Stuart83]

I am far from impressed by the reliability of hifi gear:

Arcam Solo Movie, bought new six years ago, not used much, I recently discovered that the analogue inputs have obvious hissing and the headphone output does not work. £1,000 down the drain after six years. Mind you, it always sat on top of a nice Ercol media cabinet, so clearly it had a hard life. That said, I always hated it, horrible user interface, muddy sound (warm and rich according to WHF).

Chord Mojo, bought new, failed after just over two years. I have ordered a new battery, in case that is the issue. Possibly £400 down the drain after just over two years. It still looks in nice condition, no scratches.

Audeze Sine headphones. The ear cups fell to pieces after a year. Replaced with nice leather over ear ones. Then the digital cable failed. So I used the standard one. Then an earpiece failed. So, £300 down the drain after four + years. Beautiful sound (not according to WHF though), far better than my HD600.

I have had lots of Sennheiser headphones, including a twenty year old HD600, which are solid and reliable. The HD600 also has replacements for wearable parts such as ear pads. And my Japanese cameras are rock solid. My digital radios are rock solid.

It seems to be boutique hifi brands that fail. Who in their right mind designs a DAC with an internal lithium ion battery, that runs off the battery, which is not user replaceable, knowing full well that these batteries are only good for about 500 recharges? So they know it will last about two years in regular use, and they charge £80 to fit a new battery. And the user interface is awful, really awful. Oh and measurements show that the sound quality is on a par with products costing half as much,

And another thing that cheeses me off is the hifi press, and their reviews. Noone reported the awful Arcam Solo movie UI, or the muddy sound. WHF said it was separates quality. No it isn‘t. None of them mentioned the Chord Mojo battery lifetime. Or the poor UI. And they gushed over the sound quality.

These days I ignore reviews from the mainstream press, all too often they do not match my experiences, and I look at reviews by some YouTubers, and measurements online, then listen for myself.

I've found from experience that older kit is more reliable, I've had many over the years especially when I was in my early teens to late 20s, my father was an amatuer TV and video repair man mostly for his entertainment and he would delve into hifi, trio, Armstrong, leak, nakamichi and a few others I can't remember, I had a Armstrong 521 for years, even dropped the thing moving it and it refused to die, but the most unkillable was a sansui au 501, I hammered the thing with decks and even hid a small Webley airgun in its chassis as a kid, it moved around with me as I became fond of it despite moving into better sounding kit.
I've since had a few faulty newer things whilst my old pioneer plods on.
A pair of mission bookshelf speakers I had in the 90s went on every day at deafening volumes and lasted 11yrs until the rubbers wore into a stress line split, had 28yrs out of a pair of mission 763i floorstanders and the same out of some tannoy m15s but that was me who broke them by accidentally pushing the titanium tweeter in moving house.
My modern noise cancelling Bose headphones wore out after 2yrs and I've had 2 new rosksn k3's arrive faulty (might be coincidence they were the non Bluetooth and standby ver) a flat screen TV died after just 4yrs yet we all have an old tube TV in a cold garage somewhere that crackles into life at the flick or heavy push of a button.
I firmly believe that England used to make very good electronics until we became a foreign country ourselves and since we've been swamped with Chinese crap either by brand or it making its way into what we're told us a quality product.
I've just completed my set up with help on here and yet to try the acram sa30 but am terrified it's going to brick itself 😂. Why can't I just switch it on and listen instead of navigating through 1000s of options that were dealt with in the past by a bass, treble a dolby filter.
I'm not against modern hifi or improvements in technologies but I'm not hearing better quality and certainly not seeing it.

 

[Oxfordian]

I cannot comment on the longevity of products, what I do know is that they don't survive 20 years of storage in a leaky loft.

What I will say is that since picking up my current system 30 months ago I am impressed by my Hegel H95, ATC SMC 7's and Audiolab 6000CDT, I am however unimpressed by Rega as my P3 remains squeaky and at the moment unusable and needs to visit the dealer for a service.

I am envious of people who say that they have hand their ********* for a very very long time and it is working just fine, this is what I hope for from the kit I am buying, I understand that CD players will ultimately die as they have moving parts and these will wear out over time but I would like to think that I will get 10 years or so out of the 6000CDT, the Hegel and the ATC's will hopefully last a fair bit longer but only time will tell.

My big wish is to get a turntable that will last me for yonks, I thought Rega would be good for that but I am disappointed in my current P3 and will move it on once I have it running properly (yes I know once sorted I should keep it but I have lost confidence in it and Rega in general so something new will be required).

In theory modern manufacturing technology should give us products that will still be with us many years from now but we know now more than ever that products are built to a price and not for longevity, so I hope to be reporting on some excellent products from Hegel, ATC, Audiolab and A.N.Other in many years time. 🤞

 

[AJM1981]

Difficult to form an opinion about this one since it is also a statistical issue per product. And we will never be able to map that.

I often hear the argument that older gear is more reliable, but then I also hear examples of that exact same gear that had a couple of revision checks. Little fix here, replacement there, etc etc - but all is fine! While newer products are not viewed through the same scope.

Then there are statistics. Take a decent amp from the past. There were probably also x-percentages that were faulty. Same applies to modern gear.

That I found an example of product y or x stopped working somewhere or has multiple issues to a user or two somewhere (who come together on the whole net) doesn’t automatically translate in that same thing to happen to the product I purchased.

There are relatively spoken not many moving parts in modern gear and I might still be able to call my current class D “decent / reliable” for me personally. We only know by time

One thing is for sure. Spotify and other streaming services might not last forever and can partly brick dedicated devices over time. Kind of follow the same faith of the fm-tuner in some countries.

 

[Deleted member 194101]

I very much doubt Spotify, or any other well established and commercially successful streaming service will disappear. Too many people need and want it and I think Class D streaming amps will take over eventually. Class D has been around since the 60s and it's a very much more reliable and convincing topology these days. It is difficult assessing the reliability of many products, as there are so many things out there. I've found CD players to be very unreliable, but then again one of them lasted a decade and I almost felt sorry for it, considering the prolonged use every day.

 

[Revolutions]

Survivorship bias is strong with old gear. We’re likely to look at the number of old units still going and assume it’s true for all.

I would imagine that as a general rule, products built to a certain quality would always survive longer over time as engineering processes have improved. That said, innovation means new, less tested parts. And manufacturers are known to incorporate planned obsolescence into their products for servicing £££.

The move from hand-wired to circuit boards in the 70s/80s probably led to a short-term dip in early death, although that’s more an ease of servicing issue than pure longevity.

 

[idc]

The only piece of hifi I have owned that was not very well-made, was a Rega Brio amp. It wobbled on its feet and the volume pot was hard to adjust. I had a Marantz all in one in the early 1990s,that never worked properly and it was returned. No matter what was done, one speaker would play quieter than the other, or not at all.

Bizarrely, a Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 headphone amp that failed and was sent for repair, was found to contain components not for that amp. I informed Musical Fidelity, who graciously sent me an X -Can V8P as a thanks. It turned out they were being ripped off by a manufacturer in Taiwan.

 

[WayneKerr]

Bizarrely, a Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 headphone amp that failed and was sent for repair, was found to contain components not for that amp. I informed Musical Fidelity, who graciously sent me an X -Can V8P as a thanks. It turned out they were being ripped off by a manufacturer in Taiwan.

😳 blimey!

 

[JDl]

I've found from experience that older kit is more reliable, I've had many over the years especially when I was in my early teens to late 20s, my father was an amatuer TV and video repair man mostly for his entertainment and he would delve into hifi, trio, Armstrong, leak, nakamichi and a few others I can't remember, I had a Armstrong 521 for years, even dropped the thing moving it and it refused to die, but the most unkillable was a sansui au 501, I hammered the thing with decks and even hid a small Webley airgun in its chassis as a kid, it moved around with me as I became fond of it despite moving into better sounding kit.
I've since had a few faulty newer things whilst my old pioneer plods on.
A pair of mission bookshelf speakers I had in the 90s went on every day at deafening volumes and lasted 11yrs until the rubbers wore into a stress line split, had 28yrs out of a pair of mission 763i floorstanders and the same out of some tannoy m15s but that was me who broke them by accidentally pushing the titanium tweeter in moving house.
My modern noise cancelling Bose headphones wore out after 2yrs and I've had 2 new rosksn k3's arrive faulty (might be coincidence they were the non Bluetooth and standby ver) a flat screen TV died after just 4yrs yet we all have an old tube TV in a cold garage somewhere that crackles into life at the flick or heavy push of a button.
I firmly believe that England used to make very good electronics until we became a foreign country ourselves and since we've been swamped with Chinese crap either by brand or it making its way into what we're told us a quality product.
I've just completed my set up with help on here and yet to try the acram sa30 but am terrified it's going to brick itself 😂. Why can't I just switch it on and listen instead of navigating through 1000s of options that were dealt with in the past by a bass, treble a dolby filter.
I'm not against modern hifi or improvements in technologies but I'm not hearing better quality and certainly not seeing it.

 

[WayneKerr]

Think you may have hit the post button too soon John 🙂

 

[JDl]

Think you may have hit the post button too soon John 🙂

I don't know where my post is, I think this is Stuart 83s post?

 

[twinkletoes]

I very much doubt Spotify, or any other well established and commercially successful streaming service will disappear. Too many people need and want it and I think Class D streaming amps will take over eventually. Class D has been around since the 60s and it's a very much more reliable and convincing topology these days. It is difficult assessing the reliability of many products, as there are so many things out there. I've found CD players to be very unreliable, but then again one of them lasted a decade and I almost felt sorry for it, considering the prolonged use every day.

Problem is, is Spotify actually a commercially successful company? I believe they still make no profit in fact they suffered a net loss of 400million last year! and have posted net losses since inception I believe, thats not a successful company. They might not disappear by name but they will certainly change hands. Its not there catalogue that make them valuable its there algorithm.

They will be bought by someone its only a matter of time they cant carry on the way they are.

they're certainly not immune.

 

[Deleted member 194101]

Many companies operate with little, or no profit. It's a modern capitalist business model and nobody seems to care. I think it's too big and popular to fail now. Some hedge fund will help them out, if they ever do struggle to keep going.

 

[Oxfordian]

Many companies operate with little, or no profit. It's a modern capitalist business model and nobody seems to care. I think it's too big and popular to fail now. Some hedge fund will help them out, if they ever do struggle to keep going.

Not sure about it being secure in the longterm, Spotify is a huge provider of music via its streaming service but is apparently losing money note over note, if one of the biggest providers is out of tune by the margin of £400 million that suggests that maybe Streaming isn't the way forward.

Recently I read on line that in reality streaming costs for the end user need to at least double if not treble to sustain the services long term, the problem with that is people won't want to pay double or treble their current premium. I'll see if i can find the link to the article.

From the tiny bit of knowledge that I have on streaming I believe that the artists receive just slightly more than diddly squat per download, you have to have a huge hit or be a big star to get a sizeable cheque from the streaming services, if the world of streaming is going to grow and be sustained long term artists are going to want a better return than they get at the moment, if artists are to receive better renumeration then costs have to rise for us, companies losing £400 million a year won't last much longer.

But having said everything I cannot see Spotify disappearing, merging with ANO more likely.

 

[Deleted member 194101]

Perhaps the free version needs to go and make everyone pay for it, to increase profits. This might be unpopular at first, but a small fee for listening could work. This needs to coincide with the introduction of a HIFI tier. I pay £10.99 a month and it's on 12 or 13 hours a day sometimes. The AI DJ feature is great and has given me loads of music I wouldn't think of searching for. IF the HIFI tier turns up, I would gladly pay £19.99 a month to play all the tunes I play now, but in certified CD quality. Buying and storing these tunes on CD is not practical, or affordable. As I mentioned in another thread, the streaming amp sector can only grow and will kill CD and vinyl, eventually. Might take 5 to 10 years, but this technology is becoming more popular, with fantastic designs and features. Reliability will also improve and there will be streamers in portable devices and headphones very soon. Devices which don't spin, or have any moving parts will always last longer than those with wheels and motors etc. Look at the Rose RS520 and the Eversolo stuff. It's amazing kit you could never imagine 20 years ago.

 

[AJM1981]

Not sure about it being secure in the longterm, Spotify is a huge provider of music via its streaming service but is apparently losing money note over note, if one of the biggest providers is out of tune by the margin of £400 million that suggests that maybe Streaming isn't the way forward.

Just combine it to a point that artists might at one point in time win a case and Spotify has to jack up the price in order to be able to pay out more, meaning users can unsubscribe over something like that and a service can hit rock bottom.

Recently I read on line that in reality streaming costs for the end user need to at least double if not treble to sustain the services long term, the problem with that is people won't want to pay double or treble their current premium. I'll see if i can find the link to the article.

From the tiny bit of knowledge that I have on streaming I believe that the artists receive just slightly more than diddly squat per download, you have to have a huge hit or be a big star to get a sizeable cheque from the streaming services, if the world of streaming is going to grow and be sustained long term artists are going to want a better return than they get at the moment, if artists are to receive better renumeration then costs have to rise for us, companies losing £400 million a year won't last much longer.

But having said everything I cannot see Spotify disappearing, merging with ANO more likely.

But a merger should remain at a threshold price level the ‘average’ consumer would still be ok with. If Spotify merges due to a success it is (obviously) positive news, but if it merges as a result of a downfall it might eventually take the other service down as well.

But there can be other reasons. I had Spotify on the PS3 and support stopped and the app does not work anymore (yes you can still stream something from a phone to the ps3 but there is no graphical user interface anymore, just a black screen). Spotify has the ability to leave stuff near being a brick over time. Nothing obligates them to support a streamer over a decade and nothing guarantees that as well.