I own a fair few cds, but many have seen service in my builders' van, and are damaged. A couple wouldn't even load in the factory cdp. I've been buying Music Magpie refurbed cds for a few years, and have never had a single problem. I ended up watching stuff on YT on the processes variously employed. At my level they sound great, I just upgraded to a Marantz 6000 OSE, and there's tons more detail than my older player, a 41. But I am assuming those of you with either better ears/better gear, or both, will want a virgin copy, and I can understand that entirely. But will you hear many defects, or less detail on a refurbished disc? I have played some of the mint cds I have, but could hear more difference in the studio quality than anything else. Not too worried with my gear, I'm loving the sound, but just curious.
Refurbished cds
- Thread starter Gadusmorhua
- Start date
abacus
Well-known member
So long as there is no loss in the data, then there will be no difference in sound, (They are digital not analogue) however CD players have an error correction system to try and solve problems with the disc, but if it has to do too much it effectively has to guess what should be there, therefore I suspect this is what is causing the problem.
Best to rip the CDs to FLAC using something like EAC which does not use error correction but reads the disc multiple times until the data is gets is accurate, thus giving you a clean recording.
There will always become a time when the disc is beyond repair, with replacement being the only option. (Don't forget that most CDs are available on streaming services in lossless format)
Bill
Best to rip the CDs to FLAC using something like EAC which does not use error correction but reads the disc multiple times until the data is gets is accurate, thus giving you a clean recording.
There will always become a time when the disc is beyond repair, with replacement being the only option. (Don't forget that most CDs are available on streaming services in lossless format)
Bill
I don't really have a problem with what I'm hearing, just sort of wondering if refurbished discs are frowned upon. I already stream Tidal, but would never rely on streaming for my music. Or National Grid for my power, for that matter.
Stuart83
Well-known member
The short answer is Absolutely none.
I have a new Marantz CD 60 and used music magpie discs and hi Res audio via usb and hear no difference.
CDs are just pits which are known as 'lands' in minute section spirals withheld below the plastic you see that can't be damaged normally unless scratched which you would hear with an audible skip.
It's deeper than that of course with "error correction" etc but unless a CD is damaged the information carried is the same so I wouldn't worry about it.
It's funny you should mention "CDs in your builders van" as I've just been to a salvage yard I frequent for a few parts for a car (Volvo S40 2.5 T-5 Sorry I mention the model but I love that car 😊)
Whilst rummaging through accident damaged vehicles some rain drenched, I found the regular haul of CDs I look for flung all about the cabin some of which the interiors were in dreadful condition.
This time I found-
Black Eyed Peas, The Killers, Artic fire, The Beatles, Abba 😫 etc etc
I also manually edject CDs (when possible) from the cars etc out of interest to see what people were listening to when they crashed 🤫😕 in view of keeping them too.
The reason I mention this is some as you can imagine are in dreadful conditions from scratching to the reverse side labeling/artwork being defaced, yet 95% of them play fine.
CD's are usually regarded as fragile and brittle yet since a kid found them one of the most reliable and best ways of storing data.
The CD pictured cleaned up and played fine without skipping despite it looking wrecked.
😲
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DougK1
Well-known member
About 66% of my CD collection is from various used sources. I rip everything to FLAC then stream locally, only ever had two discs which wouldn't rip and one of them was brand new.
twinkletoes
Well-known member
CD player information gathering abilities are very good and will store info in a bank, so you wont hear the defects from a rough CD unless incredibly bad. And it'll read that info many times till its built a full picture.
But as Doug has mentioned buying new doesnt mean it will work either
The only disc ive had that didn't work was a PS1 game in the 90's (not strictly a CD)
Sometimes abit of t cut can make them work again if they have a few scratches it would used on computer games back in the day and always worked.
But as Doug has mentioned buying new doesnt mean it will work either
The only disc ive had that didn't work was a PS1 game in the 90's (not strictly a CD)
Sometimes abit of t cut can make them work again if they have a few scratches it would used on computer games back in the day and always worked.
abacus
Well-known member
Very few CD players read the disc many times (Unless it is a computer of course) so they just use error correction which uses redundancy on the disc and if that fails effectively guessing via interpolation what should have been there. (Some error correction systems are better than others)
Bill
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Cricketbat70
Well-known member
Friesiansam
Well-known member
bigfish786
Moderator
I buy new, used, refurbished, whatever I can find. Never bought a bad one. Only ever had one go bad on me, that was replaced for £3. Had a crappy pug 207 which had a slot load cd player, that used to ruin discs so only ever used copies in there. Was glad to say goodbye to that pile of junk.
Been using files on a usb ever since.
Been using files on a usb ever since.
Fandango Andy
Well-known member
Digital music is just data. I have never looked at what goes into refurbishing a CD, but imagine it's just cleaning and repairing the plastic outer of the disc so it can be read.
I have started ripping my new cds to FLAC, but get very depressed that the rest of my discs (a few hundred) are on MP3 files, which I did years ago when storage was expensive. I'm not sure if I've got the strength to sit down and do it all again, but I can only listen to the MP3s at the gym, or working, and then only the noisier stuff.
DougK1
Well-known member
It is not an enviable task, definitely something I would not like to repeat - I have three backup copies of my rips.
I'm not aware of your domestic playback chain but do the rips have to be FLAC? Can you categorically tell the difference between the MP3 rips and FLAC in a blind test? Some people can't. If you can then I guess it's bite the bullet time
Al ears
Well-known member
Pardon my ignorance but aren't refurbished cds just second-hand discs?It is not an enviable task, definitely something I would not like to repeat - I have three backup copies of my rips.
I'm not aware of your domestic playback chain but do the rips have to be FLAC? Can you categorically tell the difference between the MP3 rips and FLAC in a blind test? Some people can't. If you can then I guess it's bite the bullet time
Unfortunately I can tell the difference when I sit down and listen properly. If I'm wearing earbuds, listening loud, I'm fine with MP3s.
I've got my music files on a solid state hard drive, and my p.c. I also set up a Plex server when I subscribed to Tidal, and all my files are there too, quite a good interface, with artwork etc.
I'll continue ripping my new cd purchases to FLAC and not get hung up about the rest. So much music, and so little time....
I've got my music files on a solid state hard drive, and my p.c. I also set up a Plex server when I subscribed to Tidal, and all my files are there too, quite a good interface, with artwork etc.
I'll continue ripping my new cd purchases to FLAC and not get hung up about the rest. So much music, and so little time....
Yes, second hand discs that have been polished and had new plastic applied to the read surface.You can buy the machines online. Music Magpie guarantee them and I've never had a duff copy.I've had a couple of tracks skipping from other (un-refurbished) discs on eBay.
DougK1
Well-known member
Personally I've never heard of refurbished discs, I just buy used ones. But I would also treat anything music magpie say with caution as I've had discs from them rated as very good but on arrival some have been in horrendous condition.
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DougK1
Well-known member
Cricketbat70
Well-known member
I'm like you I started ripping to flac, when I got my NAS. 6+ years ago. Then after a few weeks looked at how many I still had to go through and just sighed. I look every couple of months with the idea of getting some more done but it never happens, something always crops up when I want to sit down and do it.
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daveh75
Well-known member
Can you actually though?
Have you actually blind tested MP3 vs CD quality?
ABX Lossless vs Lame MP3 test list
A set of browser-based ABX tests to compare Lame MP3 encoded and lossless music samples
abx.digitalfeed.net
Because you'd be in a very small group of exceptional people if you really could hear a difference
Also it's amazing what you don't/won't hear when any potential influence is removed.
Al ears
Well-known member
Me neither.
I cannot see anyone polishing and re- coating a second-hand CD the cost would be prohibitive and you'd end up paying more than a new CD.
Is this what they actually say they do??
Wouldn't polishing partially destroy the pits on the CD?
Have a look on Google at the machines they use, it's quick and cheap after the initial outlay.
No, I haven't done a proper blind test, I've got a life.Can you actually though?
Have you actually blind tested MP3 vs CD quality?
ABX Lossless vs Lame MP3 test list
A set of browser-based ABX tests to compare Lame MP3 encoded and lossless music samples
Because you'd be in a very small group of exceptional people if you really could hear a difference
Also it's amazing what you don't/won't hear when any potential influence is removed.
No, I doubt if I do belong to thaat group of exceptional people- I'm sixty-odd and have worked in a noisy environment all my life.
But MP3 files continue to sound lacklustre and I continue to spot them when they turn up in mixes on my server.
I presume you burn to MP3 still? Why does everyone else recommend FLAC?
One thing I've learned about HiFi is that it is hugely subjective, and only in your head. Another is that most people seem to get most pleasure out of buying expensive gear, and boasting about it. It's only about the music for me, but if I think a track is duff, it's duff- my brain, my ears, however wrong I am.
Stuart83
Well-known member
Polishing the only removes a fraction of the plastic cover not the information (pits) which are below
daveh75
Well-known member
You say that, but you've started multiple threads enquiring about pointless (cable) upgrades. 😉
Still?!
I haven't bought or ripped a CD in about 15 years, i.e since streaming services become a thing. But no I ripped to FLAC/ALAC when I did.
It makes sense for archival/storage purposes, it just doesn't matter for playback.
Which is a big part of the problem, there's too many audiophiles all to willing to mislead others with their subjective experiences passed off as fact.
Again, I'll refer you to the cable threads you've started and the needless worry about codecs...😋
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Why is FLAC preferable to MP3 for archival/storage purposes?
Yes, I've been drawn into a lot of the nonsense voiced here about cables, various codecs and what have you. I was curious.
When I came here I needed help setting my system up, and I'm grateful for everyone's input. Now I'm really enjoying my sounds, and find it hard to know how it can get much better, to my ears. I may, one day, buy better speakers, but I am 100% content with what I've got right now, and that's the key to enjoyment. If one spent too much time on this forum I think it would actually detract from the pleasure of the music. There seems to be a great deal of snobbery and bitchiness amongst all the help, indeed it seems to me that is how 'audiophiles'get a lot of their pleasure : wanting, boasting, and arguing. An awful lot of egos here, fortunately I'm made of simple stuff, and my main concern is the music, and enjoying it.
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