RE: Chord Chorus2 Vs. Tellurium Ultra Black

[lindsayt]

Isac, from your earlier posts you seem to be saying that more expensive cables are likely to be better than cheaper cables. If there is a link between cable costs and cable performance, surely the link would be between material and manufacturing costs and performance and NOT between cable selling price and performance?

On that basis you might like to try some 500 amp welding cable, which costs about £28.80 per stereo metre, plus plug costs.
Something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Welding-Cable-Battery-Live-500-Amp-70mm-Red-Flexible-Per-Meter-Mig-Arc-Welder-/190875320704?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item2c710e4180

Or maybe something with 95mm2 cross sectional area for £66.80 per stereo metre: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Expert-Weld-PVC-Welding-Copper-Cable-Per-Metre-16-25-35-50-70-or-95mm2-/251282219163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item3a8196609b

When you start going large with cables, eventually you get to the stage where you can't get all of the conducting core into your terminating plugs or sockets. You can get away with thicker speaker cables than interconnects. RCA plugs are pretty pathetic when it comes to attaching thick cables to them.

These copper welding cables have a far greater conducting cross sectional area than anything made by Chord or Tellurium and will therefore have a lower impedance than anything from those companies. Low impedance is important over longer cable runs for preserving the damping factor of the amplifier and therefore the bass tightness of the system. They are also relatively low capacitance cables due to them not being twisted and the conducting cores not being close to each other in a figure 8 or shotgun format.

Silver plating aside, the welding cable will have much greater material and manufacturing costs than anything made by Chord and Tellurium. Silver gives you 6% greater conductivity than copper, which seems insignificant when you can get a cable with 500% more cross sectional area.

Anyone's who's really into hi-fi cables owes it to themselves to go out and try a really over-engineered cable, such as the welding cable as well as any other hi-fi cables that they fancy.

 

[davedotco]

Isac, from your earlier posts you seem to be saying that more expensive cables are likely to be better than cheaper cables. If there is a link between cable costs and cable performance, surely the link would be between material and manufacturing costs and performance and NOT between cable selling price and performance?

On that basis you might like to try some 500 amp welding cable, which costs about £28.80 per stereo metre, plus plug costs.
Something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Welding-Cable-Battery-Live-500-Amp-70mm-Red-Flexible-Per-Meter-Mig-Arc-Welder-/190875320704?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item2c710e4180

Or maybe something with 95mm2 cross sectional area for £66.80 per stereo metre: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Expert-Weld-PVC-Welding-Copper-Cable-Per-Metre-16-25-35-50-70-or-95mm2-/251282219163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item3a8196609b

When you start going large with cables, eventually you get to the stage where you can't get all of the conducting core into your terminating plugs or sockets. You can get away with thicker speaker cables than interconnects. RCA plugs are pretty pathetic when it comes to attaching thick cables to them.

These copper welding cables have a far greater conducting cross sectional area than anything made by Chord or Tellurium and will therefore have a lower impedance than anything from those companies. Low impedance is important over longer cable runs for preserving the damping factor of the amplifier and therefore the bass tightness of the system. They are also relatively low capacitance cables due to them not being twisted and the conducting cores not being close to each other in a figure 8 or shotgun format.

Silver plating aside, the welding cable will have much greater material and manufacturing costs than anything made by Chord and Tellurium. Silver gives you 6% greater conductivity than copper, which seems insignificant when you can get a cable with 500% more cross sectional area.

Anyone's who's really into hi-fi cables owes it to themselves to go out and try a really over-engineered cable, such as the welding cable as well as any other hi-fi cables that they fancy.

Not exactly over engineered but back in the 80s we used twisted pairs of something very like this......

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/switchgear-tri-rated-cable/7174228/

We did use welding cable, 300 or 500 amp in our stage rigs, basically to connect our mains distribution systems to the 3 phase switchbox. Bloody difficult stuff to work with.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I wonder what these armchair warriors, excepting those owning AVI actives because they don't need cable, use for their cables? How many use bell wire or the welding cable they've been touting?

Something tells me the answer is none.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi

I just upgraded my analogue audio intercconect from the Chord Chrimson plus to the Chord Chorus2 to find out a huge improvement on

the sound : it is more clear , lively sound stage and superbly detailed it took my system to a completly different level stage forward .

This might be 'poke in the eye' obv, but can't you borrow a set of TQs from a local dealer? I know my Rega/Naim dealer offered me the chance to home test a set....

Hi

Yes I will borrow from my dealer the TQ Ultra black and will check it , The Chord Chorus2 is graet cable I am not sure that the TQ is better .

Well, if you can't decide then stick with what you have. Don't just buy because it's a trendy cable. My philosophy has always been 'if it ain't broke...'

 

[floyd droid]

I wonder what these armchair warriors, excepting those owning AVI actives because they don't need cable, use for their cables? How many use bell wire or the welding cable they've been touting?

Something tells me the answer is none.

I use 700 and odd multi strand 6mm squared ofc. Knocked em up myself , nanas ,sheathing la de da.

What do you use

Does answering this make me an armchair warrior ?.

 

[davedotco]

I wonder what these armchair warriors, excepting those owning AVI actives because they don't need cable, use for their cables? How many use bell wire or the welding cable they've been touting?

Something tells me the answer is none.

Not sure who you are aiming that at, but my current system is active, not AVI, and uses inexpensive Fisual cables.

My main system, currently not in use, uses XLO interconnects, RCA, and simple single core multistrand cable, 2.5mm cross section that was probably produced as a very flexible solution for connecting test probes. It was given to me by the manufacturers of my system, they also gave me some 'silver' interconnects that I do not use, prefering the XLO.

 

[lindsayt]

I use £2.16 per stereo metre 6mm2, 762 strand copper cable in my systems in 20 to 25 metre long runs. But then I'm not into cables and I have low powered, high efficiency systems. I also have speakers with the smallest, crappiest terminals ever. If I wanted to explore expensive cables I'd try a welding cable, and replace my speaker terminals.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Sorry, Floyd, no!

I use whatever Amazon or Maplins offer at a decent price. Mostly use component video cable for interconnects because a dealer mate once told me they rate extremely well in terms of impedance. Speaker cable no idea - it's not branded, but definitely multistrand copper.

 

[CnoEvil]

I think this thread nicely highlights the mephitic side to this forum.

The OP came on asking a specific question about 2 cables. He hasn't asked if cables make a difference, as he has obviously made his mind up on this.

What does he get? A gang of people lining up to lay down the law, make fun of him and wind him up. Then when he naturally gets frustrated with the unhelpful attitude and tries to get his point across, in what is probably a second language, he finds all he has done is provide the fuel for more sneering and goading.

There is nothing wrong with respectfully giving one's experience and advising caution.....but that is far from what is going on here from some quarters.

 

[floyd droid]

I use £2.16 per stereo metre 6mm2, 762 strand copper cable in my systems in 20 to 25 metre long runs. But then I'm not into cables and I have low powered, high efficiency systems. I also have speakers with the smallest, crappiest terminals ever. If I wanted to explore expensive cables I'd try a welding cable, and replace my speaker terminals.

Hey Lindsay ,you wiz robbed mate ha ha .

@ Mr Lemon. I use Sharkwire ofc I/Cs off the reel and terminated.

 

[MakkaPakka]

My speaker cable is IXOS Gamma that cost £20 for a 15m reel.

I did once A/B test a £20 SCART cable against a 99p one via a switch box. The cheap cable had some picture noise that the more expensive cable didn't have. This was only visible a few inches from the screen though and would not have been spotted in normal use. As a result of that I see value in going for a well built cable so when I need an analogue cable look in the region of £15-20. I would go as cheap as possible for digital cables unless I planned on unplugging it a lot then I might choose something more costly.

 

[lpv]

I have no doubt that the air will be magnificent, the blacks, well, none more black (thx Spinal Tap) and the soundstage massive.

You don't need to describe colours to me Isac; I'd suggest my vision is fine. It's your belief that is the problem.

As well as the Tellurium Pricey Cable let us know how you get on with the Randi Challenge too. $1m ain't to be sniffed at.

Check out Roger Russell's page too. Ex-McIntosh engineer, here: http://www.roger-russell.com/ - he isn't offering any money, but the advice is good.

some good read there. thanks for the link

 

[BenLaw]

I wonder what these armchair warriors, excepting those owning AVI actives because they don't need cable, use for their cables? How many use bell wire or the welding cable they've been touting?

Something tells me the answer is none.

I used to enjoy your posts AL but the anti-AVI obsession is getting seriously tedious, you really had to crow bar that one in.

If you've read the thread you'll have seen several people mention the generic cables they prior to you posting this post. I'll add myself to those who've posted in response, generic multi strand copper speaker cable and generic pro XLRs for me.

Presumably you'll accept that the answer wasn't none.

 

[plastic penguin]

I think this thread nicely highlights the mephitic side to this forum.

The OP came on asking a specific question about 2 cables. He hasn't asked if cables make a difference, as he has obviously made his mind up on this.

What does he get? A gang of people lining up to lay down the law, make fun of him and wind him up. Then when he naturally gets frustrated with the unhelpful attitude and tries to get his point across, in what is probably a second language, he finds all he has done is provide the fuel for more sneering and goading.

There is nothing wrong with respectfully giving one's experience and advising caution.....but that is far from what is going on here from some quarters.

Bang on, Cno.

 

[stevebrock]

I think this thread nicely highlights the mephitic side to this forum.

The OP came on asking a specific question about 2 cables. He hasn't asked if cables make a difference, as he has obviously made his mind up on this.

What does he get? A gang of people lining up to lay down the law, make fun of him and wind him up. Then when he naturally gets frustrated with the unhelpful attitude and tries to get his point across, in what is probably a second language, he finds all he has done is provide the fuel for more sneering and goading.

There is nothing wrong with respectfully giving one's experience and advising caution.....but that is far from what is going on here from some quarters.

Bang on, Cno.

crikey better put some censorship in then, hope we haven't upset him - none of it was personal just our opinions from experience.

 

[lindsayt]

I use £2.16 per stereo metre 6mm2, 762 strand copper cable in my systems in 20 to 25 metre long runs. But then I'm not into cables and I have low powered, high efficiency systems. I also have speakers with the smallest, crappiest terminals ever. If I wanted to explore expensive cables I'd try a welding cable, and replace my speaker terminals.

Hey Lindsay ,you wiz robbed mate ha ha .

@ Mr Lemon. I use Sharkwire ofc I/Cs off the reel and terminated.

Quite possibly, but when spending £50 on cables it doesn't make sense for me to spend time shopping around for the best deal. Time is money and all that. I'm happy to admit that I may have been robbed over £50 worth of cables. I would be less happy if I felt I'd been robbed over a £5000 pair of speakers.

Free cables from things like the power flex from a broken electric lawnmower are another option for someone happy with a thin to medium thickness cable.

 

[the record spot]

I think this thread nicely highlights the mephitic side to this forum.

The OP came on asking a specific question about 2 cables. He hasn't asked if cables make a difference, as he has obviously made his mind up on this.

What does he get? A gang of people lining up to lay down the law, make fun of him and wind him up. Then when he naturally gets frustrated with the unhelpful attitude and tries to get his point across, in what is probably a second language, he finds all he has done is provide the fuel for more sneering and goading.

There is nothing wrong with respectfully giving one's experience and advising caution.....but that is far from what is going on here from some quarters.

Bang on, Cno.

Except for Isac's post where he trotted out the "your hearing isn't sensitive enough" cliche. If I had a pound or two for every cliche I've read and heard in the hifi book, I'd be on a hell of a night out on it.

 

[stevebrock]

Hi

I just upgraded my analogue audio intercconect from the Chord Chrimson plus to the Chord Chorus2 to find out a huge improvement on

the sound : it is more clear , lively sound stage and superbly detailed it took my system to a completly different level stage forward .

This is the original post!Sorry if some of us dont agree with it and have our own opinion!

 

[CnoEvil]

Except for Isac's post where he trotted out the "your hearing isn't sensitive enough" cliche. If I had a pound or two for every cliche I've read and heard in the hifi book, I'd be on a hell of a night out on it.

Born out of frustration I suspect....it's not the way I would have handled it, but I know exactly how he feels.

I agree with your cliché statement.....and equally the overused ones from the other side like, "my kettle boils faster with an expensive lead and makes better tea", is neither original, clever nor funny, and is simply used to belittle the person it's used on.

FWIW. I wasn't aiming my comment at you, which I think you already know.

 

[plastic penguin]

I think this thread nicely highlights the mephitic side to this forum.

The OP came on asking a specific question about 2 cables. He hasn't asked if cables make a difference, as he has obviously made his mind up on this.

What does he get? A gang of people lining up to lay down the law, make fun of him and wind him up. Then when he naturally gets frustrated with the unhelpful attitude and tries to get his point across, in what is probably a second language, he finds all he has done is provide the fuel for more sneering and goading.

There is nothing wrong with respectfully giving one's experience and advising caution.....but that is far from what is going on here from some quarters.

Bang on, Cno.

Except for Isac's post where he trotted out the "your hearing isn't sensitive enough" cliche. If I had a pound or two for every cliche I've read and heard in the hifi book, I'd be on a hell of a night out on it.

Wouldn't have much of a night out on a tenner.

Perhaps the cliche was a misinterpretation. This happens so often where people (maybe) can't quite convey what they mean and some tend to jump and slap it back in their faces.

This happened a few months ago with me: I was unhappy with the aesthetics of the Naim and Leema together - not the sound, which I made crystal clear - and some were suggesting radical makeover - buy this buy that.... dunp this dump that...

Back to the OP's conundrum - this is why - a page or two ago - I suggested NOT to buy based on a reputation of the cable, only commit if there's an audible difference.

 

[CnoEvil]

This is the original post!
Sorry if some of us dont agree with it and have our own opinion!

My comments were not about whether one disagrees or not; but about having a little respect for someone with a different opinion.

 

[BenLaw]

I see, so if someone who thinks cables make a difference says something crass and belittling it's cos someone else made them do it. If someone who doesn't hear a difference does likewise, it is inexcusable.

 

[CnoEvil]

I see, so if someone who thinks cables make a difference says something crass and belittling it's cos someone else made them do it. If someone who doesn't hear a difference does likewise, it is inexcusable.

IMO. It depends on the context, which party was the one to kick it off and the degree of provocation.......though I certainly believe that respect should run in both directions.

All the OP wanted was feedback on his question - simples. :roll:

 

[floyd droid]

I use £2.16 per stereo metre 6mm2, 762 strand copper cable in my systems in 20 to 25 metre long runs. But then I'm not into cables and I have low powered, high efficiency systems. I also have speakers with the smallest, crappiest terminals ever. If I wanted to explore expensive cables I'd try a welding cable, and replace my speaker terminals.

Hey Lindsay ,you wiz robbed mate ha ha .

@ Mr Lemon. I use Sharkwire ofc I/Cs off the reel and terminated.

Quite possibly, but when spending £50 on cables it doesn't make sense for me to spend time shopping around for the best deal. Time is money and all that. I'm happy to admit that I may have been robbed over £50 worth of cables. I would be less happy if I felt I'd been robbed over a £5000 pair of speakers.

Free cables from things like the power flex from a broken electric lawnmower are another option for someone happy with a thin to medium thickness cable.

Dafty ,I was having a bit of fun to try and lighten things up a tad.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I wonder what these armchair warriors, excepting those owning AVI actives because they don't need cable, use for their cables? How many use bell wire or the welding cable they've been touting?

Something tells me the answer is none.

I used to enjoy your posts AL but the anti-AVI obsession is getting seriously tedious, you really had to crow bar that one in.

If you've read the thread you'll have seen several people mention the generic cables they prior to you posting this post. I'll add myself to those who've posted in response, generic multi strand copper speaker cable and generic pro XLRs for me.

Presumably you'll accept that the answer wasn't none.

You've misunderstood. AVI come with their own cables, or that's my understanding anyway, and a couple of posters here I recognise from the AVI forum, therefore I excepted them. You'll see ddco has actives and said very much the same.

No, the answer was none. No-one uses bell wire or welding cable.