RE: Chord Chorus2 Vs. Tellurium Ultra Black

[BenLaw]

I wonder what these armchair warriors, excepting those owning AVI actives because they don't need cable, use for their cables? How many use bell wire or the welding cable they've been touting?

Something tells me the answer is none.

I used to enjoy your posts AL but the anti-AVI obsession is getting seriously tedious, you really had to crow bar that one in.

If you've read the thread you'll have seen several people mention the generic cables they prior to you posting this post. I'll add myself to those who've posted in response, generic multi strand copper speaker cable and generic pro XLRs for me.

Presumably you'll accept that the answer wasn't none.

You've misunderstood. AVI come with their own cables, or that's my understanding anyway, and a couple of posters here I recognise from the AVI forum, therefore I excepted them. You'll see ddco has actives and said very much the same.

No, the answer was none. No-one uses bell wire or welding cable.

Don't play the stiupid routine, you're not. No-one recommended bell wire and only one person recommended welding cable, so your question was either facetious or figurative, which was it?

(You also accepted the relevance of all the responses you got from people setting out their generic cables.)

As I say, until a few months ago I enjoyed your posts. Don't stoop to their level, it doesn't do you any favours.

 

[BenLaw]

I see, so if someone who thinks cables make a difference says something crass and belittling it's cos someone else made them do it. If someone who doesn't hear a difference does likewise, it is inexcusable.

IMO. It depends on the context, which party was the one to kick it off and the degree of provocation.......though I certainly believe that respect should run in both directions.

All the OP wanted was feedback on his question - simples. :roll:

Seems to me the first person who was crass and belittling was the OP when he said 'abacus and ipv belive me I am a musician and there is a huge difference , You're hearing isn't sensitive enough .'

It would be right to say this was in response to abacus saying to the OP there wasn't actually a difference but (i) that was said politely, (ii) it's no different a statement of fact or opinion than the OP saying he did hear a difference, (iii) whatever the language difficulties the OP has enough posts and has been on here long enough (and IIRC partipated in enough cable threads) to know that his statements were bound to attract a response from those who disagree with his viewpoint.

 

[CnoEvil]

I see, so if someone who thinks cables make a difference says something crass and belittling it's cos someone else made them do it. If someone who doesn't hear a difference does likewise, it is inexcusable.

IMO. It depends on the context, which party was the one to kick it off and the degree of provocation.......though I certainly believe that respect should run in both directions.

All the OP wanted was feedback on his question - simples. :roll:

Seems to me the first person who was crass and belittling was the OP when he said 'abacus and ipv belive me I am a musician and there is a huge difference , You're hearing isn't sensitive enough .'

It would be right to say this was in response to abacus saying to the OP there wasn't actually a difference but (i) that was said politely, (ii) it's no different a statement of fact or opinion than the OP saying he did hear a difference, (iii) whatever the language difficulties the OP has enough posts and has been on here long enough (and IIRC partipated in enough cable threads) to know that his statements were bound to attract a response from those who disagree with his viewpoint.

This thread has 176 replies......how many are answering the specific question/s that were asked (by someone who doesn't want a lecture).

I get the distinct impression there is a view that the OP deserves all he gets, for being so gullible, and is thus fair game.

If I saw a person who started a thread about not hearing a difference in cables, being ganged up on by those with a different POV, I would also step in......it's just it seldom happens that way round.

 

[MakkaPakka]

OP went on the offensive and started making bizarre claims about being able to pass a zillion blind tests or whatever it was despite no indication he's ever even tried any sort of test. Then went on to say that everyone who doesn't agree with him obviously thinks all speakers, amps, etc.sound the same and has poor hearing. What little he got back in return was warranted. OP deserves to be shot down as making silly claims but just attacking people when they challenge him.

 

[CnoEvil]

OP went on the offensive and started making bizarre claims about being able to pass a zillion blind tests or whatever it was despite no indication he's ever even tried any sort of test. Then went on to say that everyone who doesn't agree with him obviously thinks all speakers, amps, etc.sound the same and has poor hearing. What little he got back in return was warranted. OP deserves to be shot down as making silly claims but just attacking people when they challenge him.

If you have heard either the Chord Chorus 2 or TQ Ultra Black, or better still, both......then I'm sure the OP would be delighted to hear what, if any, the difference was.

If you haven't, then why not just tell him he's an idiot and see if he gets even more frustrated than he is already.......and you can then blame him for being unreasonable.

 

[davedotco]

Being reasonable and sensible rare achieves much, on this forum or in real life.

I have the view that a little bit of knowledge, scientific and technical, helps tremendously when evaluating hi-fi.

Similarly taking part in an organised blind test, even one that is pretty simple (double blind, level matched) will also bring home to the average enthusiast just how difficult it is to hear the differences between competent cables (and most electronic components for that matter) once the visual reference points are removed.

Armed with these sort of experiences an enthusiast may well be in a position to make better and more informed opinions about his choice of equipment and find it easier and cheaper to get where he wants to be.

This has always beem my view but the 'extemeists' on both sides of the debate marginalise any such suggestions, usually by sh*t flinging of the most basic kind.

Mostly I just poke fun at the extremists at either end of the spectrum.

And indulge in a little gratuitous Patsy Kensit......

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I wonder what these armchair warriors, excepting those owning AVI actives because they don't need cable, use for their cables? How many use bell wire or the welding cable they've been touting?

Something tells me the answer is none.

I used to enjoy your posts AL but the anti-AVI obsession is getting seriously tedious, you really had to crow bar that one in.

If you've read the thread you'll have seen several people mention the generic cables they prior to you posting this post. I'll add myself to those who've posted in response, generic multi strand copper speaker cable and generic pro XLRs for me.

Presumably you'll accept that the answer wasn't none.

You've misunderstood. AVI come with their own cables, or that's my understanding anyway, and a couple of posters here I recognise from the AVI forum, therefore I excepted them. You'll see ddco has actives and said very much the same.

No, the answer was none. No-one uses bell wire or welding cable.

Don't play the stiupid routine, you're not. No-one recommended bell wire and only one person recommended welding cable, so your question was either facetious or figurative, which was it?

(You also accepted the relevance of all the responses you got from people setting out their generic cables.)

As I say, until a few months ago I enjoyed your posts. Don't stoop to their level, it doesn't do you any favours.

As I said, no-one uses bell wire or welding cable. Accept, and move on.

 

[BenLaw]

I wonder what these armchair warriors, excepting those owning AVI actives because they don't need cable, use for their cables? How many use bell wire or the welding cable they've been touting?

Something tells me the answer is none.

I used to enjoy your posts AL but the anti-AVI obsession is getting seriously tedious, you really had to crow bar that one in.

If you've read the thread you'll have seen several people mention the generic cables they prior to you posting this post. I'll add myself to those who've posted in response, generic multi strand copper speaker cable and generic pro XLRs for me.

Presumably you'll accept that the answer wasn't none.

You've misunderstood. AVI come with their own cables, or that's my understanding anyway, and a couple of posters here I recognise from the AVI forum, therefore I excepted them. You'll see ddco has actives and said very much the same.

No, the answer was none. No-one uses bell wire or welding cable.

Don't play the stiupid routine, you're not. No-one recommended bell wire and only one person recommended welding cable, so your question was either facetious or figurative, which was it?

(You also accepted the relevance of all the responses you got from people setting out their generic cables.)

As I say, until a few months ago I enjoyed your posts. Don't stoop to their level, it doesn't do you any favours.

As I said, no-one uses bell wire or welding cable. Accept, and move on.

So who touted bell wire?

 

[lindsayt]

I've used pretty thin lamp flex. In a 50 metre long run. Sounded fine. Speakers were in a completely different part of the house to the turntable and amp, for music whilst I was decorating.

So, why does Tellurium black speaker cable cost £47 per metre and have a conducting cross sectional area of what? 3mm squared? 3.5mm squared?

Why does it cost that when you can buy cable for £29 per metre with a conducting cross sectional area of 70mm squared?

Something doesn't sound right here. I smell a rip off!

 

[ISAC69]

So the final conclusion here is that the Hi Fi cabels industry is a huge scam and all the magazines reviewing and rating cabels must be crooks just

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

Give me a break !

 

[BenLaw]

Isac, it's a real shame you aren't aquainted with max flinn, the two of you would have got along like a house on fire. The rest of us would have had fun too.

 

[CnoEvil]

Being reasonable and sensible rare achieves much, on this forum or in real life.

I have generally found being reasonable and sensible has a way of working out for the better in the long term.......arrogantly pssing people off usually achieves little but causing further division (and makes better viewing .

)

 

[stevebrock]

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

most of us accept that SOME cables can sound different ie Silver vs Coppper

But as to your claim cheap cables dont sound as good as expensive cables is totally rubbish

Most of the hype surrounding cables is just purely opinion, and the manufactuers know how to market cables to get you to buy them....and people do including myself. As for magazines - I learnt a long time ago take 'em with a pinch of salt!

But you soon realise - yes its a scam - expensive does not mean better in your system

 

[ISAC69]

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

most of us accept that SOME cables can sound different ie Silver vs Coppper

But as to your claim cheap cables dont sound as good as expensive cables is totally rubbish

Most of the hype surrounding cables is just purely opinion, and the manufactuers know how to market cables to get you to buy them....and people do including myself. As for magazines - I learnt a long time ago take 'em with a pinch of salt!

But you soon realise - yes its a scam - expensive does not mean better in your system

Don't forget to add that the Hi Fi magazines are crooks as well and a part of the scam ... :twisted:

 

[spiny norman]

it's a real shame you aren't aquainted with max flinn

aka the little gratuitous patsy referred to by davedotco earlier :rofl:

 

[hammill]

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

most of us accept that SOME cables can sound different ie Silver vs Coppper

But as to your claim cheap cables dont sound as good as expensive cables is totally rubbish

Most of the hype surrounding cables is just purely opinion, and the manufactuers know how to market cables to get you to buy them....and people do including myself. As for magazines - I learnt a long time ago take 'em with a pinch of salt!

But you soon realise - yes its a scam - expensive does not mean better in your system

Don't forget to add that the Hi Fi magazines are crooks as well and a part of the scam ... :twisted:

Record Spot posted this link earlier. I take it you have not read it yet. http://www.roger-russell.com. It explains that silver does not sound different to copper, why some expensive cables sound different by making the sound worse (high capacitance) and that all is required is a cable of sufficiently low resistance, which can be cheaply obtained. It also explains why simply remaking the connection can change the sound by removing corrosion, which is why new cables often sound better when all that was required was to clean the original connection. HiFi magazines have promoted a lot of c**p over the years I am afraid and expensive cables are one of the worst examples. Before you reply again, please read this article, it may save us all a lot of time.

 

[lindsayt]

So the final conclusion here is that the Hi Fi cabels industry is a huge scam and all the magazines reviewing and rating cabels must be crooks just

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

Give me a break !

The hi-fi cables industry, when you get above £64 / metre is NOT a scam because some people can't hear the difference between good cables and cheap ones.

It's a scam because the "good" cables including cables that you use in your system are in fact cheap cables. Cheap material costs. Cheap to make. It's fair enough that some people prefer one type of cheap to make cable to another type of cheap to make cable in their systems. That I can fully accept. That I am perfectly fine with. Where the scam comes in is that the selling price bears no relationship to the materials and manufacturing costs for the more expensive cables.

If you like one particular type of expensive to buy cable that's fine. Why not then go out and find a far cheaper alternative that has approximatley the same cross sectional area and shape - or possibly even one with a better cross sectional area and shape and use that instead?

 

[davedotco]

Being reasonable and sensible rare achieves much, on this forum or in real life.

I have generally found being reasonable and sensible has a way of working out for the better in the long term.......arrogantly pssing people off usually achieves little but causing further division (and makes better viewing .

)

Mainly because it achieves little and changes nothing.

Even on something as mundane as a hi-fi forum it requires it requires forthright opinions and. yes, occasionally combative posts to, stimulate debate and hopefully move the discussion along to a place where we might learn something or better understand peoples views.

Whilst I have no problems with a little bit of micky tacking, particularly when invited by a particular strand of idiocy, I do not like the way some threads descend into sh*t flinging hence my occasion attempts at humour.

The biggest problem remains the way some react to strong but reasoned argument by resorting to personal insult, sometimes it is not really meant to be offensive, some of the OP's comments in the thread above for example, but sometimes it is quite calculatingly insulting, hard not to react to if it is aimed at you.

 

[BigH]

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

most of us accept that SOME cables can sound different ie Silver vs Coppper

But as to your claim cheap cables dont sound as good as expensive cables is totally rubbish

Most of the hype surrounding cables is just purely opinion, and the manufactuers know how to market cables to get you to buy them....and people do including myself. As for magazines - I learnt a long time ago take 'em with a pinch of salt!

But you soon realise - yes its a scam - expensive does not mean better in your system

Don't forget to add that the Hi Fi magazines are crooks as well and a part of the scam ... :twisted:

Yes you are right, HifI mags are in on it, their job is to promote new hifi products, just look how many bad reviews there are, ever wonder why so mant 5 star products, where do they get their revenue from, sales and advertising. Ever wonder why they don't test what pro music studios or concert halls use, products that cost a lot less money than many "hifi" cables.

 

[ISAC69]

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

most of us accept that SOME cables can sound different ie Silver vs Coppper

But as to your claim cheap cables dont sound as good as expensive cables is totally rubbish

Most of the hype surrounding cables is just purely opinion, and the manufactuers know how to market cables to get you to buy them....and people do including myself. As for magazines - I learnt a long time ago take 'em with a pinch of salt!

But you soon realise - yes its a scam - expensive does not mean better in your system

Don't forget to add that the Hi Fi magazines are crooks as well and a part of the scam ... :twisted:

Yes you are right, HifI mags are in on it, their job is to promote new hifi products, just look how many bad reviews there are, ever wonder why so mant 5 star products, where do they get their revenue from, sales and advertising. Ever wonder why they don't test what pro music studios or concert halls use, products that cost a lot less money than many "hifi" cables.

I must agree with you that good cables are overpriced but to say like some people here that there is no difference or a minor one between good cabels to the cheap ones it's a totaly nonsense .

 

[stevebrock]

FFS mods shut this thread

 

[hammill]

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

most of us accept that SOME cables can sound different ie Silver vs Coppper

But as to your claim cheap cables dont sound as good as expensive cables is totally rubbish

Most of the hype surrounding cables is just purely opinion, and the manufactuers know how to market cables to get you to buy them....and people do including myself. As for magazines - I learnt a long time ago take 'em with a pinch of salt!

But you soon realise - yes its a scam - expensive does not mean better in your system

Don't forget to add that the Hi Fi magazines are crooks as well and a part of the scam ... :twisted:

Yes you are right, HifI mags are in on it, their job is to promote new hifi products, just look how many bad reviews there are, ever wonder why so mant 5 star products, where do they get their revenue from, sales and advertising. Ever wonder why they don't test what pro music studios or concert halls use, products that cost a lot less money than many "hifi" cables.

I must agree with you that good cables are overpriced but to say like some people here that there is no difference or a minor one between good cabels to the cheap ones it's a totaly nonsense .

It is not nonsense, it is true. I repeat, read the article - all you need is cable with low enough resistance and a decent connection. These can be purchased cheaply.

 

[BigH]

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

most of us accept that SOME cables can sound different ie Silver vs Coppper

But as to your claim cheap cables dont sound as good as expensive cables is totally rubbish

Most of the hype surrounding cables is just purely opinion, and the manufactuers know how to market cables to get you to buy them....and people do including myself. As for magazines - I learnt a long time ago take 'em with a pinch of salt!

But you soon realise - yes its a scam - expensive does not mean better in your system

Don't forget to add that the Hi Fi magazines are crooks as well and a part of the scam ... :twisted:

Yes you are right, HifI mags are in on it, their job is to promote new hifi products, just look how many bad reviews there are, ever wonder why so mant 5 star products, where do they get their revenue from, sales and advertising. Ever wonder why they don't test what pro music studios or concert halls use, products that cost a lot less money than many "hifi" cables.

I must agree with you that good cables are overpriced but to say like some people here that there is no difference or a minor one between good cabels to the cheap ones it's a totaly nonsense .

Thats your opinion, I suggest you look at some of Alan Shaw, owner of Harbeths views on cables. Yes hifi cables are often well marked up, some expensive ones have been taken apart and found to be nothing special apart from a fancy coating. Best to try for yourself with some blind testing.

 

[steve_1979]

Isac, it's a real shame you aren't aquainted with max flinn, the two of you would have got along like a house on fire. The rest of us would have had fun too.

+1 :rofl:

Oh come on mods, let Max come back for just one day so ISAC69 can meet him. It'd be hilarious.

 

[lpv]

because some people here can't hear the difference between good cabels and cheap ones .

most of us accept that SOME cables can sound different ie Silver vs Coppper

But as to your claim cheap cables dont sound as good as expensive cables is totally rubbish

Most of the hype surrounding cables is just purely opinion, and the manufactuers know how to market cables to get you to buy them....and people do including myself. As for magazines - I learnt a long time ago take 'em with a pinch of salt!

But you soon realise - yes its a scam - expensive does not mean better in your system

Don't forget to add that the Hi Fi magazines are crooks as well and a part of the scam ... :twisted:

Record Spot posted this link earlier. I take it you have not read it yet. http://www.roger-russell.com. It explains that silver does not sound different to copper, why some expensive cables sound different by making the sound worse (high capacitance) and that all is required is a cable of sufficiently low resistance, which can be cheaply obtained. It also explains why simply remaking the connection can change the sound by removing corrosion, which is why new cables often sound better when all that was required was to clean the original connection. HiFi magazines have promoted a lot of c**p over the years I am afraid and expensive cables are one of the worst examples. Before you reply again, please read this article, it may save us all a lot of time.

+ 1

That is right Mr. Hammil. Isac should read that through.