QED Signature HDMI or Chord Company Active HDMI?

[Anonymous]

jase fox:I honestly can't believe some of you guys can't tell differences between "out of the box" HDMI cables and high end specialist ones? I myself are with Michael on this, i currently use QED reference HDMI and the improvements where superb.
I also used to find high end scart leads better than the cheap £2.99 black ones, i suppose this is definately a case of each to there own.

And it's not just me and the Michael's of the world that see and hear these diff's with high end cables but even the WHSAV team?? We must all be drinking the same water as there's something clearly in it.

hi jase.. if these differences are real, and you can clearly see them, then watch
the same movie scene a few times using the cable that you deem inferior
and you should see random errors that manifest themselves in different
ways each time, ie an inconsistent image, perhaps sound.

if you don't
find inconsistencies in the image/sound then the cable is not losing
data and therefore it is simply not possible that it could be displaying
an inferior image to the supposed better cable

this logic is sound imo..

 

[jase fox]

maxflinn:
jase fox:I honestly can't believe some of you guys can't tell differences between "out of the box" HDMI cables and high end specialist ones? I myself are with Michael on this, i currently use QED reference HDMI and the improvements where superb.
I also used to find high end scart leads better than the cheap £2.99 black ones, i suppose this is definately a case of each to there own.

And it's not just me and the Michael's of the world that see and hear these diff's with high end cables but even the WHSAV team?? We must all be drinking the same water as there's something clearly in it.

hi jase.. if these differences are real, and you can clearly see them, then watch
the same movie scene a few times using the cable that you deem inferior
and you should see random errors that manifest themselves in different
ways each time, ie an inconsistent image, perhaps sound.

if you don't
find inconsistencies in the image/sound then the cable is not losing
data and therefore it is simply not possible that it could be displaying
an inferior image to the supposed better cable

this logic is sound imo..

I have done Max, believe me i've given them extensive testing, now the answer is "no" neither of the cheap nor expensive HDMI cables produce "sparklies" etc but the higher end QED did provide a sharper/clearer picture with the colours being more vibrant, even my other half noticed and that's saying something.
I can tell the diff between a £2.99 standard HDMI and the QED reference as i had a friend swap em over without me knowing of course which one was being used, now i used Transformers and quantum of solace with which i use as demo so pretty much know the quality of the picture etc and i chose correctly because to me there was no escaping the extra clarity the reference produced.

Now i could'nt for e.g do this test at the WHSAV demo room or your living room on your equipment as i'm not used to it, as you most likely could have your tv callibrated different to where i would have it so it would be pointless as i know the quality of my own picture and sound.

So i'm totally satisfied that they make a difference IMO this also goes for powerkords to.
The one thing i will stress to say is that you must allow a burn-in time as it makes soooo much difference and i'm not talking a couple of hours i'm talking over several months.

For e.g... When you first buy a high end HDMI or powerkord etc you rig it up and can't wait to see what results it can "supposedly" achieve, so therefore your going STRAIGHT into wanting to see/hear a difference and this is where The Placebo effect can come into play because your going into it in "testing mode" however, i rigged up my powerkords say, and yes i noticed a slight but good improvement from the start but i just left them in as i had every faith the burn-in process would take it's course accordingly. I didn't know exactly how long this would take but 500 hrs was mentioned on the RAs website and magazine , so when your watching just 2 or 3 movies a wk say that's going to take a long time.

Now fast forwarding to around 4 mths later (could be 3) i put transformers on bluray and this was'nt going into "demo mode" just an ordinary night watching a movie! If anything i had forgotten about the powerkords and the burn-in etc so when i started to watch the movie i noticed that the PQ was so much sharper with fantastic fine detail and the colours where so much more vibrant , now still not realising about cable burn-in i instantly thought "who's been mucking about with my tv" so thought that my 5yr old had changed my colour and brightness and especially the sharpness etc so i went into the menu to check my settings and to my surprise they had'nt been changed, after say 10 mins it then dawned on me that the cables must have finally settled down so i then put on other bluray movies with which clearly showed this improvement not be the placebo effect but cable burn-in because i dint go into watching the movie to demo.

Cheers

 

[grifz]

Jase fox

.My higher priced hdmi cable gives a smooth, detailed cleaner picture on my philips 47pfl9664 than my cheaper hdmi lead. THE END FULLSTOP I THANKYOU.

 

[Andrew Everard]

grifz:THE END FULLSTOP

You think?

 

[michael hoy]

maxflinn:michael hoy:maxflinn:
here's a challenge (i know you like them

) ..

you say, as indeed proffesorhat does (maybe he'll also take up my challenge), that you are sure that you have seen differences between hdmi cables.

now, if you can get hold of two cables that you believe offer different performance, shouldn't be hard, right?

maxflinn,

I can pull one hdmi lead in particular off my shelf now and show anyone the difference between this one and the cable I am currently using.

The colours and brightness in this cable are different to my current and past cables, there is an increase in both areas and to me is un natural.

hi michael, if these differences are real, and you can clearly see them, then watch the same movie scene a few times using the cable that you deem inferior and you should see random errors that manifest themselves in different ways each time, ie an inconsistent image, perhaps sound.

if you don't find inconsistencies in the image/sound then the cable is not losing data and therefore it is simply not possible that it could be displaying an inferior image to the supposed better cable

this logic is sound imo..

Max,

The picture is not distorted, have sparklies nor have i noticed a difference in sound (I wasn't observing this at the time).

The lead in question gives to me an un natural colour and brightness to the picture, this I have checked with a film I am very familiar with.

The cable is not faulty but it does change the image.

 

[Anonymous]

Is it not time to draw a line under this one and say some beileve, some don't, I don't think anyone on either side will converter over.

 

[grifz]

Maybe not then .

 

[jase fox]

grifz:Jase fox

.My higher priced hdmi cable gives a smooth, detailed cleaner picture on my philips 47pfl9664 than my cheaper hdmi lead. THE END FULLSTOP I THANKYOU.Well it certainly is the end fullstop for me grifz, as my experiences have proved they do make big differences in both PQ/SQ

I do believe the big problem here is that many people just dont give them enough time to burn-in and settle down, they plug them in and expect to see instant change.

My advice is simple, plug them in and forget about them then in time you'll be rewarded.

Patience...

 

[michael hoy]

jase fox:Well it certainly is the end fullstop for me grifz, as my experiences have proved they do make big differences in both PQ/SQ

I do believe the big problem here is that many people just dont give them enough time to burn-in and settle down, they plug them in and expect to see instant change.

My advice is simple, plug them in and forget about them then in time you'll be rewarded.

Patience...

Jase,

I could not agree more, people expect an instant fix and cannot wait as the saying goes - All good things come to he / she who waits.

The other point you made earlier about Scart leads and yes I can see a difference with my current one versus the cheap out of the box lead.

And on that point I too am out.

 

[jase fox]

michael hoy:
jase fox:Well it certainly is the end fullstop for me grifz, as my experiences have proved they do make big differences in both PQ/SQ

I do believe the big problem here is that many people just dont give them enough time to burn-in and settle down, they plug them in and expect to see instant change.

My advice is simple, plug them in and forget about them then in time you'll be rewarded.

Patience...

Jase,

I could not agree more, people expect an instant fix and cannot wait as the saying goes - All good things come to he / she who waits.

The other point you made earlier about Scart leads and yes I can see a difference with my current one versus the cheap out of the box lead.

And on that point I too am out.

Exactly Michael, we both sound like the Dragons (dragons den) just in case you was'nt aware mate, ha

The scart lead i use and have always used is the QED 2010 (flat) fantasic scart and alot better than the cheap tacky black ones that rattle when you slighty shake them, in fact i have loads of those cheap ones in the "mandraw" some still with the plastic fastener on them, i'll put em on e-bay ha

 

[michael hoy]

jase fox:michael hoy:
jase fox:Well it certainly is the end fullstop for me grifz, as my experiences have proved they do make big differences in both PQ/SQ

I do believe the big problem here is that many people just dont give them enough time to burn-in and settle down, they plug them in and expect to see instant change.

My advice is simple, plug them in and forget about them then in time you'll be rewarded.

Patience...

Jase,

I could not agree more, people expect an instant fix and cannot wait as the saying goes - All good things come to he / she who waits.

The other point you made earlier about Scart leads and yes I can see a difference with my current one versus the cheap out of the box lead.

And on that point I too am out.

Exactly Michael, we both sound like the Dragons (dragons den) just in case you was'nt aware mate, ha

The scart lead i use and have always used is the QED 2010 (flat) fantasic scart and alot better than the cheap tacky black ones that rattle when you slighty shake them, in fact i have loads of those cheap ones in the "mandraw" some still with the plastic fastener on them, i'll put em on e-bay ha

You could make some money out of the non believers

 

[Anonymous]

So, if scientific tests were conducted in a specialised laboratory, of which there are a few in Europe, that proved conclusively cables meeting a given HDMI specification were indeed all the same, I take it subjectivists still wouldn't believe it?

That doesn't really worry me so much, its those who deny the validity of any scientific tests who do.

 

[jase fox]

Grottyash:
So, if scientific tests were conducted in a specialised laboratory, of which there are a few in Europe, that proved conclusively cables meeting a given HDMI specification were indeed all the same, I take it subjectivists still wouldn't believe it?

That doesn't really worry me so much, its those who deny the validity of any scientific tests who do.

Astonishing is'nt it? And i've never denied the validity of scientific tests i'm just going by my "own" findings.

 

[Frank Harvey]

But scientists measure, and put their faith in numbers. I am a believer that there can be other things at play, not just in cables but in anything. Yes, we can measure whatever it is we want to measure and compare data, but I think there are aspects that can't be measured. I remember getting into an argument about measuring on another forum, and I made the point that speakers place certain instruments in a slightly different place specially - can that be measured? I know frequencies and levels can be measured, but can something like transparency be measured?

 

[Anonymous]

jase fox:Astonishing is'nt it? And i've never denied the validity of scientific tests i'm just going by my "own" findings.That IS denying the value of scientific tests.

 

[Anonymous]

digital data is successfully wirelessly streamed by many devices, apple airport express, apple tv, panasonics flagship z1 tv from 2009 streamed 1080p data from it's box to the tv, flawlessly, a ps3 streams digital data..

all of those things can stream through the airwaves with no difficulty and no data loss, yet some people still believe that within the physical confines of a specially made and industry standard conforming hdmi cable that there is significant data loss

yes, data loss, there's no magic at play, nothing too complicated, it's all about data loss, if there is none then a cable works perfectly, as has been demonstrated many times in tests..

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:But scientists measure, and put their faith in numbers. I am a believer that there can be other things at play, not just in cables but in anything. Yes, we can measure whatever it is we want to measure and compare data, but I think there are aspects that can't be measured. I remember getting into an argument about measuring on another forum, and I made the point that speakers place certain instruments in a slightly different place specially - can that be measured? I know frequencies and levels can be measured, but can something like transparency be measured?Not so when it comes to AV. You can, for example, in test lab conditions with suitable instruments measure luminence, colour saturation, contrast, sharpness etc from a TV screen. Pretty certain all manufacturers have these facilities, plus there are many independent labs working for manufacturers, AV magazines etc.

A valid test would be to measure the performance of one or several TVs with cable A, then repeat with cable B. If the figures for the tests were exactly the same, what would your conclusion be?

 

[michael hoy]

Grottyash:
jase fox:Astonishing is'nt it? And i've never denied the validity of scientific tests i'm just going by my "own" findings.That IS denying the value of scientific tests.

OK in this scientific world of 1's and 0's no data loss because it is 1's an 0's and my cable is short, how can one cable show a brighter and more vivid colour than an other cable.

Remember 1's and 0's no data loss.

 

[jase fox]

Grottyash:
jase fox:Astonishing is'nt it? And i've never denied the validity of scientific tests i'm just going by my "own" findings.That IS denying the value of scientific tests.
It is'nt, i'm singing from the same sheet as David from Frank Harvey, that scientific tests do go by numbers etc and i'm not argueing with that, fair enough,but my own tests i.e not numbered ones but sight and hearing ones prove to me they do make differences.

 

[Anonymous]

jase fox:Grottyash:
jase fox:Astonishing is'nt it? And i've never denied the validity of scientific tests i'm just going by my "own" findings.That IS denying the value of scientific tests.

It is'nt, i'm singing from the same sheet as David from Frank Harvey, that scientific tests do go by numbers etc and i'm not argueing with that, fair enough,but my own tests i.e not numbered ones but sight and hearing ones prove to me they do make differences.See my reply to David above. Tests for TVs etc don't necessarily go by numbers at all, they can and do take results directly from the TV screen.

 

[jase fox]

michael hoy:Grottyash:
jase fox:Astonishing is'nt it? And i've never denied the validity of scientific tests i'm just going by my "own" findings.That IS denying the value of scientific tests.

OK in this scientific world of 1's and 0's no data loss because it is 1's an 0's and my cable is short, how can one cable show a brighter and more vivid colour than an other cable.

Remember 1's and 0's no data loss.

Unfortunately that's all in our heads Michael, obviously were deluded to the non-believers, what there not taking into effect is with what materials the cables use like teflon for e.g or gamma geometry / silver or copper plated / DCT treated etc etc

All i know is they make differences to me and that's frankly all that matters

 

[Anonymous]

The point is that with HDMI it is not a matter of subjectivity, if a cable works it will do exactly the same job as another one that works whatever the brand and cost.

It is rather like attaching 1m of hose pipe to a tap and suggesting that the more expensive hose makes the water taste and/or look better, it just doesn't happen, assuming the hose doesn't leak and is not blocked (i.e assuming the hose works) then the water coming out of the end will be the same.

On the otherhand if you feel better because you have an expensive cable then that is fine.

 

[Andrew Everard]

grifz:THE END FULLSTOP

See what I mean?

 

[michael hoy]

Childs1962:

The point is that with HDMI it is not a matter of subjectivity, if a cable works it will do exactly the same job as another one that works whatever the brand and cost.

It is rather like attaching 1m of hose pipe to a tap and suggesting that the more expensive hose makes the water taste and/or look better, it just doesn't happen, assuming the hose doesn't leak and is not blocked (i.e assuming the hose works) then the water coming out of the end will be the same.

On the otherhand if you feel better because you have an expensive cable then that is fine.

But the water can look and tast different depending on the material the hose is made of, yes you still get water out but with something added.

i.e. tiny particles of the hose material / chemical make up.

 

[michael hoy]

Andrew Everard:
grifz:THE END FULLSTOP

See what I mean?

I need a

now.

feeling a bit