f1only:what frequency are ya mains cables 50hz?& what frequency is ya airport express transmitting & recieving?
haven't a clue.....
haven't a clue.....
michael hoy:michael hoy:maxflinn:michael hoy:maxflinn:
here's a challenge (i know you like them
) ..
you say, as indeed proffesorhat does (maybe he'll also take up my challenge), that you are sure that you have seen differences between hdmi cables.
now, if you can get hold of two cables that you believe offer different performance, shouldn't be hard, right?
maxflinn,
I can pull one hdmi lead in particular off my shelf now and show anyone the difference between this one and the cable I am currently using.
The colours and brightness in this cable are different to my current and past cables, there is an increase in both areas and to me is un natural.
hi michael, if these differences are real, and you can clearly see them, then watch the same movie scene a few times using the cable that you deem inferior and you should see random errors that manifest themselves in different ways each time, ie an inconsistent image, perhaps sound.
if you don't find inconsistencies in the image/sound then the cable is not losing data and therefore it is simply not possible that it could be displaying an inferior image to the supposed better cable
this logic is sound imo..
Max,
The picture is not distorted, have sparklies nor have i noticed a difference in sound (I wasn't observing this at the time).
The lead in question gives to me an un natural colour and brightness to the picture, this I have checked with a film I am very familiar with.
The cable is not faulty but it does change the image.
Just to add a note on this.
My Spyder 3 also detected the difference between the two cables, with the lead in question it reduced the brightness setting for the TV.
that's interesting michael, thanks for taking the time to try it out
here's a challenge (i know you like them
you say, as indeed proffesorhat does (maybe he'll also take up my challenge), that you are sure that you have seen differences between hdmi cables.
now, if you can get hold of two cables that you believe offer different performance, shouldn't be hard, right?
maxflinn,
I can pull one hdmi lead in particular off my shelf now and show anyone the difference between this one and the cable I am currently using.
The colours and brightness in this cable are different to my current and past cables, there is an increase in both areas and to me is un natural.
hi michael, if these differences are real, and you can clearly see them, then watch the same movie scene a few times using the cable that you deem inferior and you should see random errors that manifest themselves in different ways each time, ie an inconsistent image, perhaps sound.
if you don't find inconsistencies in the image/sound then the cable is not losing data and therefore it is simply not possible that it could be displaying an inferior image to the supposed better cable
this logic is sound imo..
Max,
The picture is not distorted, have sparklies nor have i noticed a difference in sound (I wasn't observing this at the time).
The lead in question gives to me an un natural colour and brightness to the picture, this I have checked with a film I am very familiar with.
The cable is not faulty but it does change the image.
Just to add a note on this.
My Spyder 3 also detected the difference between the two cables, with the lead in question it reduced the brightness setting for the TV.
that's interesting michael, thanks for taking the time to try it out
michael hoy
Well-known member
maxflinn:
f1only:what frequency are ya mains cables 50hz?& what frequency is ya airport express transmitting & recieving?
haven't a clue.....
Max for info -
Frequency bands
[*]2.4GHz or 5GHz[/list]
f1only:what frequency are ya mains cables 50hz?& what frequency is ya airport express transmitting & recieving?
haven't a clue.....
Max for info -
Frequency bands
[*]2.4GHz or 5GHz[/list]
michael hoy:maxflinn:
f1only:what frequency are ya mains cables 50hz?& what frequency is ya airport express transmitting & recieving?
haven't a clue.....
Max for info -
Frequency bands
[*]2.4GHz or 5GHz[/list]
cheers. still haven't a clue though
f1only:what frequency are ya mains cables 50hz?& what frequency is ya airport express transmitting & recieving?
haven't a clue.....
Max for info -
Frequency bands
[*]2.4GHz or 5GHz[/list]
cheers. still haven't a clue though
f1only
Well-known member
HDMI works between around 165MHhz to around 340Mhz so your mains should'nt interfere with it as far as RFI is concerned, only EMC & an HDMI connector has 5 volts running through it on pin 18 usually at a maximum of 50 mA.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
jase fox:MUSICRAFT:jase fox:MUSICRAFT:
Hi jase fox
After market mains cables need burning in?
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Every cable/interconnect/mains leads/powerblocks etc ALL need burn-in time to perform there best. I did mention all this on my previous post and to how i know cable burn-in makes a huge difference.
Hi jase fox
Thanks for your reply.
Well the Wilkinson Stores mains extension blocks and the standard mains leads plugged into them which i've been using over the last for years now haven't altered the performance of any components connected to them.
Keep it simple and your components/system will breathe
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Well thats because there rubbish MUSICRAFT
Hi jase fox
I am sorry but i didn't realize that electricity distinguished between badges.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Hi jase fox
After market mains cables need burning in?
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Every cable/interconnect/mains leads/powerblocks etc ALL need burn-in time to perform there best. I did mention all this on my previous post and to how i know cable burn-in makes a huge difference.
Hi jase fox
Thanks for your reply.
Well the Wilkinson Stores mains extension blocks and the standard mains leads plugged into them which i've been using over the last for years now haven't altered the performance of any components connected to them.
Keep it simple and your components/system will breathe
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Well thats because there rubbish MUSICRAFT
Hi jase fox
I am sorry but i didn't realize that electricity distinguished between badges.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
idc
Well-known member
Rick
Don't you wish you had never started signing off all your responses with 'All the best...'
All the best
idc @ near Glasgow
Don't you wish you had never started signing off all your responses with 'All the best...'
All the best
idc @ near Glasgow
f1only:
maxflinn:f1only:I underatand how digital works & it passes an electric current, hence the emc question, also proximity to other electrical equipment & shielding.so how come my wireless digital streamer (airport express) works just fine and dandy even though it's thrown in the middle of a bunch of power cables?
& has power cables feeding it & how well are the circuits inside shielded? bearing in mind its wireless & is suceptable to rfi? i shouild think very well or it would suffer badlyThis is a different issue, and, in the context of this debate, a red herring. All manufacturers take RFI into account when they produce their goods, so effectively it has zero impact on their equipment. That's why they do not feel the need to supply fancy power cables with their gear. There's also state and country laws which limit levels of RFI which may be emitted for many items of electrical equipment to a very low level.
In the case of HDMI, the cable should be impervious to HDMI. If it affected them at all, you'd quickly see it as artefacts on the screen, as maxflinn has already said.
maxflinn:f1only:I underatand how digital works & it passes an electric current, hence the emc question, also proximity to other electrical equipment & shielding.so how come my wireless digital streamer (airport express) works just fine and dandy even though it's thrown in the middle of a bunch of power cables?
& has power cables feeding it & how well are the circuits inside shielded? bearing in mind its wireless & is suceptable to rfi? i shouild think very well or it would suffer badlyThis is a different issue, and, in the context of this debate, a red herring. All manufacturers take RFI into account when they produce their goods, so effectively it has zero impact on their equipment. That's why they do not feel the need to supply fancy power cables with their gear. There's also state and country laws which limit levels of RFI which may be emitted for many items of electrical equipment to a very low level.
In the case of HDMI, the cable should be impervious to HDMI. If it affected them at all, you'd quickly see it as artefacts on the screen, as maxflinn has already said.
Grottyash:In the case of HDMI, the cable should be impervious to HDMI.
Surely in that case it wouldn't meet any of the HDMI standards, and probably wouldn't pass any signal at all?
Surely in that case it wouldn't meet any of the HDMI standards, and probably wouldn't pass any signal at all?
f1only
Well-known member
Agreed on the rfi point as max brought that up within his question about power leads & radio waves through the air affecting his airport express.
In my earlier post I asked about electro magnetic interference on hdmi leads not rfi or electro magetic interference on power leads.
After having had 4 different make HDMI cables in the past all rated at least 10.2gbps V1.3 or higher, all no longer than 2 metres, all connected to the A/V amp, same TV, 2 different BD players, V HD box & same ps3.
The fist HDMI V1.3 ( 1x2 metres long ) would'nt pass 1080p only 1080i from my ps3 directly to the TV, even though the packaging claimed it would so i returned it to where i purchased & it was exchanged for another, which i hasten to add had the same problem so it was taken back, where upon i recieved a refund.
The 2nd HDMI V1.3b ( 5x1 Metre long ) did work but left random white snow specs on the screen ( which showed up realy badly in dark moody lighting within a film on the TV ) these were on the connections between the ps3, the Sony BDPS-363 player ( now sold ), & Pioneer BDP-320.
EDIT: I have since leant these to a friend of mine who recently bought a ps3, he has had no problems at all with them, has only 2 HDMI leads going directly to the TV one for the ps3 the other one for his Sky HD box & reprted an an improved picture from the ps3. Upon return i still had the same problem with them.
The third HDMI also V1.3b ( 5x1 metre long ), the picture was all washed up, the sound was not as clear. I returned these.
So i now have HDMI v1.4 ( 4x1 & 1x 2 metres long ) with no artifacts on the TV screen, improved picture & sound. I always use the same manfacturer for all 5 HDMI connections, each time i thought i had upgraded, i just changed the manufacturer & all the HDMI leads in one go, thinking that there would be better compatibility.
In my earlier post I asked about electro magnetic interference on hdmi leads not rfi or electro magetic interference on power leads.
After having had 4 different make HDMI cables in the past all rated at least 10.2gbps V1.3 or higher, all no longer than 2 metres, all connected to the A/V amp, same TV, 2 different BD players, V HD box & same ps3.
The fist HDMI V1.3 ( 1x2 metres long ) would'nt pass 1080p only 1080i from my ps3 directly to the TV, even though the packaging claimed it would so i returned it to where i purchased & it was exchanged for another, which i hasten to add had the same problem so it was taken back, where upon i recieved a refund.
The 2nd HDMI V1.3b ( 5x1 Metre long ) did work but left random white snow specs on the screen ( which showed up realy badly in dark moody lighting within a film on the TV ) these were on the connections between the ps3, the Sony BDPS-363 player ( now sold ), & Pioneer BDP-320.
EDIT: I have since leant these to a friend of mine who recently bought a ps3, he has had no problems at all with them, has only 2 HDMI leads going directly to the TV one for the ps3 the other one for his Sky HD box & reprted an an improved picture from the ps3. Upon return i still had the same problem with them.
The third HDMI also V1.3b ( 5x1 metre long ), the picture was all washed up, the sound was not as clear. I returned these.
So i now have HDMI v1.4 ( 4x1 & 1x 2 metres long ) with no artifacts on the TV screen, improved picture & sound. I always use the same manfacturer for all 5 HDMI connections, each time i thought i had upgraded, i just changed the manufacturer & all the HDMI leads in one go, thinking that there would be better compatibility.
jase fox
Well-known member
Grottyash:f1only:
maxflinn:f1only:I underatand how digital works & it passes an electric current, hence the emc question, also proximity to other electrical equipment & shielding.so how come my wireless digital streamer (airport express) works just fine and dandy even though it's thrown in the middle of a bunch of power cables?
& has power cables feeding it & how well are the circuits inside shielded? bearing in mind its wireless & is suceptable to rfi? i shouild think very well or it would suffer badlyThis is a different issue, and, in the context of this debate, a red herring. All manufacturers take RFI into account when they produce their goods, so effectively it has zero impact on their equipment. That's why they do not feel the need to supply fancy power cables with their gear. There's also state and country laws which limit levels of RFI which may be emitted for many items of electrical equipment to a very low level.
In the case of HDMI, the cable should be impervious to HDMI. If it affected them at all, you'd quickly see it as artefacts on the screen, as maxflinn has already said.
That's where your mis-informed Grottyash, because on a few products in there instruction manuals they oftenly say "you may want to consider using a specialist cable"
In the manual for my subwoofers it says "we have supplied an interconnect to get you up and running however,for better performance you may consider a better quality interconnect.
maxflinn:f1only:I underatand how digital works & it passes an electric current, hence the emc question, also proximity to other electrical equipment & shielding.so how come my wireless digital streamer (airport express) works just fine and dandy even though it's thrown in the middle of a bunch of power cables?
& has power cables feeding it & how well are the circuits inside shielded? bearing in mind its wireless & is suceptable to rfi? i shouild think very well or it would suffer badlyThis is a different issue, and, in the context of this debate, a red herring. All manufacturers take RFI into account when they produce their goods, so effectively it has zero impact on their equipment. That's why they do not feel the need to supply fancy power cables with their gear. There's also state and country laws which limit levels of RFI which may be emitted for many items of electrical equipment to a very low level.
In the case of HDMI, the cable should be impervious to HDMI. If it affected them at all, you'd quickly see it as artefacts on the screen, as maxflinn has already said.
That's where your mis-informed Grottyash, because on a few products in there instruction manuals they oftenly say "you may want to consider using a specialist cable"
In the manual for my subwoofers it says "we have supplied an interconnect to get you up and running however,for better performance you may consider a better quality interconnect.
jase fox
Well-known member
idc:
Rick
Don't you wish you had never started signing off all your responses with 'All the best...'
All the best
idc @ near Glasgow
I agree on this idc, especially if you,ve been patronising then sign off saying all the best.
Rick
Don't you wish you had never started signing off all your responses with 'All the best...'
All the best
idc @ near Glasgow
I agree on this idc, especially if you,ve been patronising then sign off saying all the best.
jase fox
Well-known member
MUSICRAFT:jase fox:MUSICRAFT:jase fox:MUSICRAFT:
Hi jase fox
After market mains cables need burning in?
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Every cable/interconnect/mains leads/powerblocks etc ALL need burn-in time to perform there best. I did mention all this on my previous post and to how i know cable burn-in makes a huge difference.
Hi jase fox
Thanks for your reply.
Well the Wilkinson Stores mains extension blocks and the standard mains leads plugged into them which i've been using over the last for years now haven't altered the performance of any components connected to them.
Keep it simple and your components/system will breathe
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Well thats because there rubbish MUSICRAFT
Hi jase fox
I am sorry but i didn't realize that electricity distinguished between badges.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
You learn something new everyday Rick.
I was referring to the likes of using a Tacima 929 as opposed to one from Wilkinson's.
Hi jase fox
After market mains cables need burning in?
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Every cable/interconnect/mains leads/powerblocks etc ALL need burn-in time to perform there best. I did mention all this on my previous post and to how i know cable burn-in makes a huge difference.
Hi jase fox
Thanks for your reply.
Well the Wilkinson Stores mains extension blocks and the standard mains leads plugged into them which i've been using over the last for years now haven't altered the performance of any components connected to them.
Keep it simple and your components/system will breathe
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Well thats because there rubbish MUSICRAFT
Hi jase fox
I am sorry but i didn't realize that electricity distinguished between badges.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
You learn something new everyday Rick.
I was referring to the likes of using a Tacima 929 as opposed to one from Wilkinson's.
jase fox:Grottyash:f1only:
maxflinn:f1only:I underatand how digital
works & it passes an electric current, hence the emc question, also proximity to other electrical equipment & shielding.so how come my wireless digital streamer (airport express) works just fine and dandy even though it's thrown in the middle of a bunch of power cables?
&
has power cables feeding it & how well are the circuits inside
shielded? bearing in mind its wireless & is suceptable to rfi? i
shouild think very well or it would suffer badlyThis is a
different issue, and, in the context of this debate, a red herring. All
manufacturers take RFI into account when they produce their goods, so
effectively it has zero impact on their equipment. That's why they do
not feel the need to supply fancy power cables with their gear. There's
also state and country laws which limit levels of RFI which may be
emitted for many items of electrical equipment to a very low level.
In
the case of HDMI, the cable should be impervious to HDMI. If it
affected them at all, you'd quickly see it as artefacts on the screen,
as maxflinn has already said.
That's where your mis-informed
Grottyash, because on a few products in there instruction manuals they
oftenly say "you may want to consider using a specialist cable"
In the manual for my subwoofers it says "we have supplied an
interconnect to get you up and running however,for better performance
you may consider a better quality interconnect.No, you are the
one who is misinformed, I'm afraid. My comments were specifically about
power cables.
maxflinn:f1only:I underatand how digital
works & it passes an electric current, hence the emc question, also proximity to other electrical equipment & shielding.so how come my wireless digital streamer (airport express) works just fine and dandy even though it's thrown in the middle of a bunch of power cables?
&
has power cables feeding it & how well are the circuits inside
shielded? bearing in mind its wireless & is suceptable to rfi? i
shouild think very well or it would suffer badlyThis is a
different issue, and, in the context of this debate, a red herring. All
manufacturers take RFI into account when they produce their goods, so
effectively it has zero impact on their equipment. That's why they do
not feel the need to supply fancy power cables with their gear. There's
also state and country laws which limit levels of RFI which may be
emitted for many items of electrical equipment to a very low level.
In
the case of HDMI, the cable should be impervious to HDMI. If it
affected them at all, you'd quickly see it as artefacts on the screen,
as maxflinn has already said.
That's where your mis-informed
Grottyash, because on a few products in there instruction manuals they
oftenly say "you may want to consider using a specialist cable"
In the manual for my subwoofers it says "we have supplied an
interconnect to get you up and running however,for better performance
you may consider a better quality interconnect.No, you are the
one who is misinformed, I'm afraid. My comments were specifically about
power cables.
Choice in Australia (I think they're 'Which' in the UK), ran an independent test comparing different HDMI and Toslink cables in Feb 2009.
The conclusion? The testing panel found not a jot of difference for different cables over short distances (less than 4m) in either category of cable. HDMI brands tested included Concord, Audioquest, Sony, Monster, Belkin, Phillips and Panasonic, at prices from $48 to $600 dollars aus.
If any problems are occuring, they are related construction of the cable (i.e. connection), rather than the 'quality' of signal.
The article title pretty much summed up their conclusion: Digital AV cables rip-off
The only pity is they didn't include the real cheapie cables, to further illustrate the point.
The conclusion? The testing panel found not a jot of difference for different cables over short distances (less than 4m) in either category of cable. HDMI brands tested included Concord, Audioquest, Sony, Monster, Belkin, Phillips and Panasonic, at prices from $48 to $600 dollars aus.
If any problems are occuring, they are related construction of the cable (i.e. connection), rather than the 'quality' of signal.
The article title pretty much summed up their conclusion: Digital AV cables rip-off
The only pity is they didn't include the real cheapie cables, to further illustrate the point.
professorhat
Well-known member
RodhasGibson
Well-known member
:shifty:
As long as you get a high speed with Ethernet one, it makes no difference at less than 9 metres, so get one from amazon for a couple of quid - all hdmi cables perform exactly the same
http://www.techradar.com/news/video/why-you-don-t-need-to-spend-more-than-2-on-an-hdmi-cable-1071343
http://www.techradar.com/news/video/why-you-don-t-need-to-spend-more-than-2-on-an-hdmi-cable-1071343
i used to have qed reference and upgraded to qed signature and i noticed the slight improvement in picture and sound.
i also have a qed reference 7m cable for my ps3 and can honestly say its the same picture quality as the signature.
i have come to the conclusion its all about shielding in the cable. the ps3 has not other cable near it and its a straight 7m run to the receiver.
ok there is a lot of cable coming out of the receiver, etc but nothing crosses over the 7m one.
the rest of the system can be best described as spaghetti junction with mains crossing over hdmi etc
and this is where the cheap cables suffer not signal degredation but interference
so you do get what you pay for
i also have a qed reference 7m cable for my ps3 and can honestly say its the same picture quality as the signature.
i have come to the conclusion its all about shielding in the cable. the ps3 has not other cable near it and its a straight 7m run to the receiver.
ok there is a lot of cable coming out of the receiver, etc but nothing crosses over the 7m one.
the rest of the system can be best described as spaghetti junction with mains crossing over hdmi etc
and this is where the cheap cables suffer not signal degredation but interference
so you do get what you pay for
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