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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
I made this thread after reading the whole Official Mojo Thread on Head-Fi. I noted all the issues that jumped at me, and put them together with the answers people provided. Ideal for newcomers to the Mojo.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/788913/chord-mojo-issue-solutions-thread
This is the Officail Mojo Thread on Head-Fi. It goes very fast and I have seen it gain a hundred posts in a day sometimes.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-read-the-third-post-for-updated-info
@Vladimir, yes I think the Mojo could be a revalation. The general impression is the best DAC under £1000. The Meridian Explorer (ME) can sound unclear or slightly veiled. It gets congested sometimes, although that may be the recordings. It's great with acoustic music, and I like it with rock too. However everyone is claiming the Mojo reveals stuff in the music never heard. I believe it will be more pacey than the ME. Many people are also claiming the Mojo outperforms £2500 Astel & Kern music players.
@davedotco, what is a Thompson experience?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/788913/chord-mojo-issue-solutions-thread
This is the Officail Mojo Thread on Head-Fi. It goes very fast and I have seen it gain a hundred posts in a day sometimes.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-read-the-third-post-for-updated-info
@Vladimir, yes I think the Mojo could be a revalation. The general impression is the best DAC under £1000. The Meridian Explorer (ME) can sound unclear or slightly veiled. It gets congested sometimes, although that may be the recordings. It's great with acoustic music, and I like it with rock too. However everyone is claiming the Mojo reveals stuff in the music never heard. I believe it will be more pacey than the ME. Many people are also claiming the Mojo outperforms £2500 Astel & Kern music players.
@davedotco, what is a Thompson experience?
davedotco said:
I can say he bought the wrong speakers for himself, and no burn in, cables, DACs or any other audiophile placebo will make any difference in the long run.
Or we can all take a ride.
I didn't get the joke. I didn't spot there was one. Just a couple of posts that made no sense.
The BT3 are a fine pair of speakers. They are surprising me as said and hold me still listening. They will be improved with a good cable and better DAC. I was chilling out with them last night. One speaker was obscured by my PC and I was still loving it. The only single criticism I have of them is the bass is as What Hi-Fi say, soft around the edges. You hear when sitting back from them. (Closer up they are tighter.) I agree to that I wish they were a little faster.
The BT3 are a compromise to an extent though and that is unquastionable. However my initial search started with much cheaper options. I previously owned a pair of Logitech Z10, and had been looking for a bargain pair on ebay. However since they are great speakers and everyone knows it, there are no bargains. Plus they are getting old now. The Creative Gigaworks were worth thinking about.
Then I looked in What Hi-Fi and they pointed me to BT3 and MR1. I baulked at the price. Thus the BT3 are an overspend in a sense. I realised though I could move toward hi-fi sound and talked myself into it. I thought I could have something sounding nice, and that is what I have. Similarly priced separates are too bulky, with no room for an amplifier. Other actives that with outperform the BT3 cost a bomb and I don't know if need that much quality. (Excluding studio monitors.) They are also exceptionally rare and very hard to find, and find out about. Only the Dynaudio Xeo 2 have come across my radar as potential in size and quality. No reviews yet and listed at £1000.
Yes then my BT3 could be better, and they will be with upgrades. With the Meridian Explorer though they will always be a touch smooth and timing neeing to be better. I can't change that, but other speakers with this DAC would be too.
The BT3 are a fine pair of speakers. They are surprising me as said and hold me still listening. They will be improved with a good cable and better DAC. I was chilling out with them last night. One speaker was obscured by my PC and I was still loving it. The only single criticism I have of them is the bass is as What Hi-Fi say, soft around the edges. You hear when sitting back from them. (Closer up they are tighter.) I agree to that I wish they were a little faster.
The BT3 are a compromise to an extent though and that is unquastionable. However my initial search started with much cheaper options. I previously owned a pair of Logitech Z10, and had been looking for a bargain pair on ebay. However since they are great speakers and everyone knows it, there are no bargains. Plus they are getting old now. The Creative Gigaworks were worth thinking about.
Then I looked in What Hi-Fi and they pointed me to BT3 and MR1. I baulked at the price. Thus the BT3 are an overspend in a sense. I realised though I could move toward hi-fi sound and talked myself into it. I thought I could have something sounding nice, and that is what I have. Similarly priced separates are too bulky, with no room for an amplifier. Other actives that with outperform the BT3 cost a bomb and I don't know if need that much quality. (Excluding studio monitors.) They are also exceptionally rare and very hard to find, and find out about. Only the Dynaudio Xeo 2 have come across my radar as potential in size and quality. No reviews yet and listed at £1000.
Yes then my BT3 could be better, and they will be with upgrades. With the Meridian Explorer though they will always be a touch smooth and timing neeing to be better. I can't change that, but other speakers with this DAC would be too.
Never mind our inside jokes. Please do go on with the review and the modifications. I'm curious to see the final result.
Have you tried blocking or part-blocking the ports?
Second recommendation would be to get some sorbothane feet or foam to sit the speakers on and a good quality, round stainless steel doorstop with rubber inserts for on top. It will help with preventing the cabinet singing in unison with the drivers.
Second recommendation would be to get some sorbothane feet or foam to sit the speakers on and a good quality, round stainless steel doorstop with rubber inserts for on top. It will help with preventing the cabinet singing in unison with the drivers.
drummerman said:
BluTack also works well. There was that Stereophile test that showed Blutack doing better than anything else.
The ports are actually inaccessible. The metal mesh is not removable. They are pretty OK sounding though. Only now and again do they bang like the box. Sometimes a snare drum sounds like it's being played from deep back within the box.
It's not often they are off key though.
I really hope the Chord Mojo works for me. The Meridian Explorer sometimes had me itching for the volume to hear more. It just needed a bit more detail. That was even with the SR225e; but then the 225e are still budget in terms of what you can spend.
I am currently trying to establish how the Mojo line-out works because it is defaulted to 3V rms. I would set it to apprximate normal line-level at 1.23V rms, by reducing the volume control. (Really surprising they made it like that.) I am hoping then that it retains the individual setting. I.E. doesn't need putting back to 1.23V rms every time I switch it on, and then to line-out.
I think the Mojo will bive me a clearer reference to judge my headphones and speakers with.
It's not often they are off key though.
I really hope the Chord Mojo works for me. The Meridian Explorer sometimes had me itching for the volume to hear more. It just needed a bit more detail. That was even with the SR225e; but then the 225e are still budget in terms of what you can spend.
I am currently trying to establish how the Mojo line-out works because it is defaulted to 3V rms. I would set it to apprximate normal line-level at 1.23V rms, by reducing the volume control. (Really surprising they made it like that.) I am hoping then that it retains the individual setting. I.E. doesn't need putting back to 1.23V rms every time I switch it on, and then to line-out.
I think the Mojo will bive me a clearer reference to judge my headphones and speakers with.
Ideally you want 2Vrms or more for a consumer unit. 1.2Vrms (4dBu) is used more for pro speakers. I'm using 4dBu on my balanced actives and audio interface.
Typically louder will give the impression of sounding better.
Typically louder will give the impression of sounding better.
There is always way too much gain in component hi-fi (and pro-audio) systems. Vlads suggestion of 2volts may be CD 'red book' standard but is far higher than you actually need. The 3 volts from the Mojo is just silly.
A good rule of thumb is to find out the sensitivity of your line input (no idea what that is on the BT3s), in millivolts then set the output driving that input to twice that level. Double the voltage is 6dB of headroom, which is fine in this application.
A good rule of thumb is to find out the sensitivity of your line input (no idea what that is on the BT3s), in millivolts then set the output driving that input to twice that level. Double the voltage is 6dB of headroom, which is fine in this application.
Vladimir said:
Thank you. I was feeling dejected a bit there. The Meridian Explorer is set to 2V rms. I presume 3V rms will not put excess load across the BT3 input circuits.
I think I will go ahead with the Mojo now However I must remember not to keep my headphones plugged into the Mojo's second 3.5mm output. Or I will blow them up.
Unusual sensitivity ratings.
Normally I would expect a bigger difference between input and overload....*unknw*
Assuming the 1.2volt to be accurate, I would expect a much higher sensitivity, even a modest 6dB headroom would suggest an input sensitivity of 1.1 volts.
Normally I would expect a bigger difference between input and overload....*unknw*
Assuming the 1.2volt to be accurate, I would expect a much higher sensitivity, even a modest 6dB headroom would suggest an input sensitivity of 1.1 volts.
Vladimir said:
That's so great Vladimir. (Thank you also for the BT3 manual. I have saved it.) Well spotted. I never even thought to look at specifications. Feeling slow today though.
Luckily I am using line 1, and that is the 3.5mm to RCA. When I get a quality cable it will be more widely compatible.
I did actually notice some distortion on line 2 but I thought it was the 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable. When it went away after switching to line 1, I figured the 3.5mm to RCA was a better cable. Plus I thought might have been pre-burn in.
It does pose an issue with the Mojo though. Basically when you power up the Mojo, you have to press the volume buttons within two seconds. It sends it to line-out mode and defaults to 3V. I got one opinion on the Official Chord Mojo Thread that says it doesn't store last volume setting. Meaning I think every time it's switched on and put in line out mode, it starts at 3V. It will be a hassle to pull it back to 2V every time. I mean sometimes I use my PC sound maybe ten times a day.
I have asked Rob Watts and John Franks both of Chord Electronics, on the Mojo thread. However I don't think they will answer this. I think it's a case of compromise if I want to use the Mojo. I don't know how to quite thank you enough. Even if it is still OK to use 3V I have the right information. It does seem odd that they would implement 3V if it were not usable though. Given a standard line level is about 1.7V rms.
If you don't have loud music blasting at full volume when you switch the Mojo on it should be fine. No sound playing = no voltage passing through.
Vladimir said:
That's a good point too. It would also work with how I now understand the Mojo output works. I'll explain for anyone else's benefit.
I was working on the assumption that line level out and headphone level out were two separate phases. However they are not.
When line-level is implemented, it simply presets the output level to 3V rms. Say it is then turned down to 2V. Next time it's switched on it will be at 2V. Say then it's turned down lower; speakers unplugged and headphones attached. Next time it's turned on it will have remembered that new listening level.
Thank you again though for digging out the voltages of the inputs for the BT3. When I presented the 2.2V rms of the BT3, on the Official Mojo Thread, it instigated a reply from Chord. I guess they realised I had done my homework, (or rather you had).
The Mojo is obviously meant to primarily drive cans and for that it needs to pack some punch. They say it can successfully drive 600 ohms headphones.
Line level standard for digital output is 2Vrms, so 3 is an overkill. I think the Explorer is better optimized for this role as a simple line level USB DAC, just set it and forget it. But the Mojo has higher resolution, better chip bla bla bla.
Input sensitivity is tricky if you don't follow the rules. I was hearing occasional distortion for two days on my new desktop setup untill I realized I'm getting clipping from too much output. If I bothered to read the manual I would have set everything right the first time (4dBu for pro balanced line), but sometimes when you get new gear you enter the 'zone' and get tunnel vision. I thought why does this well planned setup doesn't sound right. I'm not a stupid man, what's going on!? But Chebby and Dave here told me the issue was the input sensitivity and that I need to use 4dBu. I opened the manual and D'OH!
that was it.
That's what were are here for, help each other out (and the occasional jokes).
Line level standard for digital output is 2Vrms, so 3 is an overkill. I think the Explorer is better optimized for this role as a simple line level USB DAC, just set it and forget it. But the Mojo has higher resolution, better chip bla bla bla.
Input sensitivity is tricky if you don't follow the rules. I was hearing occasional distortion for two days on my new desktop setup untill I realized I'm getting clipping from too much output. If I bothered to read the manual I would have set everything right the first time (4dBu for pro balanced line), but sometimes when you get new gear you enter the 'zone' and get tunnel vision. I thought why does this well planned setup doesn't sound right. I'm not a stupid man, what's going on!? But Chebby and Dave here told me the issue was the input sensitivity and that I need to use 4dBu. I opened the manual and D'OH!
That's what were are here for, help each other out (and the occasional jokes).
That's the Mojo in a nutshell.
(Also yes my distortion on the lower voltage line in was only very occasionally.)
For me I wonder if I can live with the Mojo foibles. I will need to be very careful. I may plug headphones in and forget last time it was supplying active speakers. To be brutally honest I don't know if I can manage that. There is a workaround somewhat. I could use the Mojo to feed the lower 1-1.2V line in on my speakers. Therefor it will always be running in a lower voltage mode, and closer to my headphones. Grado are 32 ohm so they will need a trickle to keep them happy.
As for the BT3 I think they may still be softening and burning-in. Or it's brain burn in as davedotco mentioned. Today they really laid back with a couple of CD Flac rips. The first few tracks of Enigma - Cross of Changes was brilliant. (I was like, "Ooof look at that". Woah seriously I wasn't expecting that, etc") Then a track later sounded a bit more average. The Meridian Explorer was always like that though a little. It gets confused sometimes or the recordings do. (I know What Hi-Fi mentioned the DragonFly v1.2 did timing better.)
I am betting a new interconnect for the BT3 will be great. However I do still vaguely wonder if you folks were potentially right. Maybe I should have thought for longer before buying. I was reading back, and googled again the AVI ADM 5 that drummerman mentioned. I sort of ruled out more expense though. I think at £350 the BT3 were a bit rich. I got them cheaper and for £220 (Peter Tyson) they are good for budget. On reflection I might suggest the MR1 for £300. However I have no real compaints. Plus I need to consider them once I get a new interconnect.
(Also yes my distortion on the lower voltage line in was only very occasionally.)
For me I wonder if I can live with the Mojo foibles. I will need to be very careful. I may plug headphones in and forget last time it was supplying active speakers. To be brutally honest I don't know if I can manage that. There is a workaround somewhat. I could use the Mojo to feed the lower 1-1.2V line in on my speakers. Therefor it will always be running in a lower voltage mode, and closer to my headphones. Grado are 32 ohm so they will need a trickle to keep them happy.
As for the BT3 I think they may still be softening and burning-in. Or it's brain burn in as davedotco mentioned. Today they really laid back with a couple of CD Flac rips. The first few tracks of Enigma - Cross of Changes was brilliant. (I was like, "Ooof look at that". Woah seriously I wasn't expecting that, etc") Then a track later sounded a bit more average. The Meridian Explorer was always like that though a little. It gets confused sometimes or the recordings do. (I know What Hi-Fi mentioned the DragonFly v1.2 did timing better.)
I am betting a new interconnect for the BT3 will be great. However I do still vaguely wonder if you folks were potentially right. Maybe I should have thought for longer before buying. I was reading back, and googled again the AVI ADM 5 that drummerman mentioned. I sort of ruled out more expense though. I think at £350 the BT3 were a bit rich. I got them cheaper and for £220 (Peter Tyson) they are good for budget. On reflection I might suggest the MR1 for £300. However I have no real compaints. Plus I need to consider them once I get a new interconnect.
Green Bow said:
I can understand your second guessing but you cannot compare your BT3 with ADM's or anything else at similar prices.
Honestly, if you enjoy listening to your speakers most of the time you already achieved more than many on this forum
Yeah I can't second guess other equipment. I have been reading plenty of reviews though.
Anyway I ordered a QED Reference Audio J2P. What Hi-Fi say it delivers detail and clarity, and I feel I need both. I think where I stumble a little with the BT3 is that both my DAC and BT3 are smooth sounding. Whereas I like a fraction more punch and detail.
It's a bit liek when you read reviews of an amp that can edge slightly toward bright. It's OK when partnered well. However if you partner it with other bright kit it can get messy. The combination of two smooth pieces of kit leaves me wanting more speed and a tounch of sparkel. (Maybe my Grado headphones spoiled me because they a sparkly, and quite transparent now and again.)
The new cable may make all the difference though. Using my Chord Mojo may make a startling difference, as that is a highly detailed DAC. However I am not ready to go ahead with that yet. I am a bit stuck on the voltage out at line level being 3V. Also that line out and headphone out are the same function, just altered by increasing or decreasing power. They really trimmed everything off the Mojo.
You are correct though because I do like the BT3. Their convenience is great. They sound good close up and from a distance. They continued to improve and are still doing so slighty but I think they are mostly settled.
When Vladimir said I had (most likey) bought the wrong speakers, I wrote yes they were a compromise. He wasn't entriely wrong though, even though I do kind of love the BT3. I mean right now I am listening to You'd Better Believe It - Hawkwind, while playing their Hall of the Mountain Grill album. The BT3 are rocking.
Anyway I ordered a QED Reference Audio J2P. What Hi-Fi say it delivers detail and clarity, and I feel I need both. I think where I stumble a little with the BT3 is that both my DAC and BT3 are smooth sounding. Whereas I like a fraction more punch and detail.
It's a bit liek when you read reviews of an amp that can edge slightly toward bright. It's OK when partnered well. However if you partner it with other bright kit it can get messy. The combination of two smooth pieces of kit leaves me wanting more speed and a tounch of sparkel. (Maybe my Grado headphones spoiled me because they a sparkly, and quite transparent now and again.)
The new cable may make all the difference though. Using my Chord Mojo may make a startling difference, as that is a highly detailed DAC. However I am not ready to go ahead with that yet. I am a bit stuck on the voltage out at line level being 3V. Also that line out and headphone out are the same function, just altered by increasing or decreasing power. They really trimmed everything off the Mojo.
You are correct though because I do like the BT3. Their convenience is great. They sound good close up and from a distance. They continued to improve and are still doing so slighty but I think they are mostly settled.
When Vladimir said I had (most likey) bought the wrong speakers, I wrote yes they were a compromise. He wasn't entriely wrong though, even though I do kind of love the BT3. I mean right now I am listening to You'd Better Believe It - Hawkwind, while playing their Hall of the Mountain Grill album. The BT3 are rocking.
I strongly believe in the "Love at first listen" principle and don't believe in burning in longer than 30min for transducers and few seconds for electronics. GB, your reaction was not good at first listen, however you may have not had the optimal settings with the inputs and that isn't a minor thing like swapping DAC chips and wires would be. So if you like them after all is set, you like em bb. It's meant to be. But don't get used to their flaws, they will bother you even if you think they wont. IMO "Burning in" is a salesman's trick and nothing more.
Vladimir said:
You're not wrong there.
Initial impressions are usually correct.
In this case the question may be how much more does something better cost. As we all know to well, this hobby can be a bottomless pit.
It doesn't really matter if the OP can't up with the foibles though.
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