Power cables

[kukulec]

Hello,

Could you please help what advantages would a system get with high quality power cables? How it would affect the sound quality? I am thinking to get an IsoTek EVO3 or something similar in this price range, if it brings an audible upgrade.

 

[ellisdj]

Try one see what you think, most places allow for return within so many days

I have spent a lot on Power cables personally but others just use the included leads and are happy.

There are a lot of choices the isotek ones seem decent from the spec how much do you want to spend and maybe people can make other suggestions.

I personally like furutech iec and plugs on power cables but these are expensive and add to the cost.

 

[Al ears]

Try one see what you think, most places allow for return within so many days

I have spent a lot on Power cables personally but others just use the included leads and are happy.

There are a lot of choices the isotek ones seem decent from the spec how much do you want to spend and maybe people can make other suggestions.

I personally like furutech iec and plugs on power cables but these are expensive and add to the cost.

The jury is still out on this one, as stated above try to refractory and return deal. The suggestion they will make calls significant upgrade depends on your ears and power supply. ;-)

I could think of better ways of spending the money.

 

[AntAxon]

It seems really odd to me that adding an expensive "high quality" power cable will improve sound quality or anything else. Surely the miles of low cost copper cabling on the National Grid and house wiring would negate any positive effect of the last metre or two going to the HiFi?

I would think that adding a surge protector/mains filter would be a better investment. I used to work using very expensive analytical equipment and the only time I found a problem with the mains supply was when the instruments were connected to a high energy drain such as large industrial heating elements or motors. This problem was made worse when the elements or motors cut in and switched off.

Having expensive high purity speaker cables and interconnects I sort of understand but even then unless the cables are of really poor quality or have cheap terminal connectors does it really make a difference?

 

[andyjm]

Hello,

Could you please help what advantages would a system get with high quality power cables? How it would affect the sound quality? I am thinking to get an IsoTek EVO3 or something similar in this price range, if it brings an audible upgrade.

For a change, lets look at the science of the subject. A power cable does a couple of things - it acts as conductor for mains power (wanted), and it acts as a conductor for noise (unwanted).

Mains is alternating current, an amp needs direct current. An amp has power supply circuitry that rectifies, smooths and filters the input mains. A bit of analysis shows that the mains supplies charging pulses to the smoothing capacitors in the amp's power supply once every 100th of a second. Between these pulses, all of the power supply needs of the amp are met by the capacitors themselves. If you were quick enough, you could unplug the mains cable between these pulses, replug it and have no effect at all on the amp output. The mains cable provides the average power to the amp, the internal capacitors supply the instantaneous power. Given this, it is completely unclear to me how a properly specified, well made mains cable could possibly impact the output of an amp from a mains conduction perspective.

Most of the aftermarket cable firms stay away from making claims about conduction (as explained above) as it just doesn't make any logical sense. Most arguments revolve around noise. A mains cable is an aerial, and will pick up radiated noise and well as conduct noise from the mains itself. This would be bad, but one of the features of a typical linear power supply in an amplifier is that it is an excellent low pass filter, by virtue of its design it filters out unwanted mains noise. For a few extra pennies, the designer can incorporate a few extra components that remove any noise that the supply doesn't manage to filter out. This doesn't mean that if you share a circuit with heavy electrical machinery all noise will be captured, but in a normal domestic setting, even modestly priced, budget amps will manage to filter mains noise. So even if an aftermarket cable has a woven steel screen and does pick up less RFI noise, the amp will take care of it.

Interestingly, any RFI picked up by the mains cable has to go through filters, transformer, rectifier then capacitors to get to the amp, yet any RF noise picked up by the speaker cables is connected directly to the amp's electronics. Speaker cables are no less an aerial for RFI than mains cables, yet somehow the designer is trusted to be able to design circuitry that is resistant to RF on speaker cables, but vulnerable to RF on the mains input.

The best mains cable is the one that came in the box with the amp when you bought it.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if [/b]it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

 

[AntAxon]

Thanks andyjm that was a really good explanation. I'm not an electronics engineer but I've used analytical equipment costing hundreds of thousands of pounds and very rarely have I come across any noise on the instrument due to the supply unless on the same circuit as high load equipment. As you can imagine the equipment I was using has very stringent diagnotic tests for instrument suitability before use. If those tests did not pick up any interference I don't see how even a high value HiFi system could be infuenced by the power cable.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

...and I've already explained why they don't use expensive power cords, on that other thread.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

...and I've already explained why they don't use expensive power cords, on that other thread.

Because they make no difference? *wink*

 

[Andrewjvt]

Hello,

Could you please help what advantages would a system get with high quality power cables? How it would affect the sound quality? I am thinking to get an IsoTek EVO3 or something similar in this price range, if it brings an audible upgrade.

For a change, lets look at the science of the subject. A power cable does a couple of things - it acts as conductor for mains power (wanted), and it acts as a conductor for noise (unwanted).

Mains is alternating current, an amp needs direct current. An amp has power supply circuitry that rectifies, smooths and filters the input mains. A bit of analysis shows that the mains supplies charging pulses to the smoothing capacitors in the amp's power supply once every 100th of a second. Between these pulses, all of the power supply needs of the amp are met by the capacitors themselves. If you were quick enough, you could unplug the mains cable between these pulses, replug it and have no effect at all on the amp output. The mains cable provides the average power to the amp, the internal capacitors supply the instantaneous power. Given this, it is completely unclear to me how a properly specified, well made mains cable could possibly impact the output of an amp from a mains conduction perspective.

Most of the aftermarket cable firms stay away from making claims about conduction (as explained above) as it just doesn't make any logical sense. Most arguments revolve around noise. A mains cable is an aerial, and will pick up radiated noise and well as conduct noise from the mains itself. This would be bad, but one of the features of a typical linear power supply in an amplifier is that it is an excellent low pass filter, by virtue of its design it filters out unwanted mains noise. For a few extra pennies, the designer can incorporate a few extra components that remove any noise that the supply doesn't manage to filter out. This doesn't mean that if you share a circuit with heavy electrical machinery all noise will be captured, but in a normal domestic setting, even modestly priced, budget amps will manage to filter mains noise. So even if an aftermarket cable has a woven steel screen and does pick up less RFI noise, the amp will take care of it.

Interestingly, any RFI picked up by the mains cable has to go through filters, transformer, rectifier then capacitors to get to the amp, yet any RF noise picked up by the speaker cables is connected directly to the amp's electronics. Speaker cables are no less an aerial for RFI than mains cables, yet somehow the designer is trusted to be able to design circuitry that is resistant to RF on speaker cables, but vulnerable to RF on the mains input.

The best mains cable is the one that came in the box with the amp when you bought it.

+1 Power cable supplied by manufactuer normally much better quality anyway

 

[CnoEvil]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

...and I've already explained why they don't use expensive power cords, on that other thread.

Because they make no difference? *wink*

*nea*

 

[BigH]

Hello,

Could you please help what advantages would a system get with high quality power cables? How it would affect the sound quality? I am thinking to get an IsoTek EVO3 or something similar in this price range, if it brings an audible upgrade.

To be honest in your system a power cable is probably not going to make much difference, if it was me I would concentrate on upgading the system first, change the amp. Or you can trial one and see.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Some would say they supply basic mains because of the additional cost. I agree that this is nonsense since each manufacturer is trying to get the best. How many amp (or speaker) makers advise using expensive cables unless they have their own brand to endorse.

Probably lots of examples but to mind, cassette deck manufacturers would recommend chrome tapes (etc) for better sound sometimes mentioning a few different well regarded makes. Back then, most kit had the mains leads non-plugged so cables could not be changed.

In my limited experience, none of my kit has come with recommended cables - interconnects, mains nor speakers. Where are the manufacturers responses here? An apple-cart is waiting to be upset.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

...and I've already explained why they don't use expensive power cords, on that other thread.

Because they make no difference? *wink*

*nea*

OK, you said.

"The answer to this is very simple:

1. If you are a cable sceptic, you will resent paying extra for something that doesn't make a difference.
2. If you are a believer, you are likely to have a favourite brand and budget in mind, so you won't want a fancy one supplied.

The sensible thing is to supply a cheap kettle lead and let each side go their own way."

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you are the manufacturer of a £1000 amp, why would you use a lead that doesn't make that amp sound as good as it can? The answer is, you wouldn't.

The answer is, they don't need to supply an expensive (sales price, not manufacturing cost) power lead, because they know it makes no difference to the sound of their amp.

 

[TrevC]

Hello,

Could you please help what advantages would a system get with high quality power cables? How it would affect the sound quality? I am thinking to get an IsoTek EVO3 or something similar in this price range, if it brings an audible upgrade.

The aftermarket ones will work exactly the same as the ones supplied. If they work there is nothing to be gained by replacing them.

 

[TrevC]

Some would say they supply basic mains because of the additional cost. I agree that this is nonsense since each manufacturer is trying to get the best. How many amp (or speaker) makers advise using expensive cables unless they have their own brand to endorse.

Probably lots of examples but to mind, cassette deck manufacturers would recommend chrome tapes (etc) for better sound sometimes mentioning a few different well regarded makes. Back then, most kit had the mains leads non-plugged so cables could not be changed.

In my limited experience, none of my kit has come with recommended cables - interconnects, mains nor speakers. Where are the manufacturers responses here? An apple-cart is waiting to be upset.

B&W recommend a cable resistance of less than 0.2 ohms on my instruction book. The rest, well they make zero difference.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I hesitate to add a link since for every argument there will be a counter link. I must say that the purveyors of mains cables seem to invent an argument. But here goes ...

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/power-cables

My personal opinion, for what its worth, is that shielding in some situations may be an advantage to remove interference but in most homes it ain't gonna matter two hoots.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I hesitate to add a link since for every argument there will be a counter link. I must say that the purveyors of mains cables seem to invent an argument. But here goes ...

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/power-cables

My personal opinion, for what its worth, is that shielding in some situations may be an advantage to remove interference but in most homes it ain't gonna matter two hoots.

 

[Al ears]

I hesitate to add a link since for every argument there will be a counter link. I must say that the purveyors of mains cables seem to invent an argument. But here goes ...

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/power-cables

My personal opinion, for what its worth, is that shielding in some situations may be an advantage to remove interference but in most homes it ain't gonna matter two hoots.

Hesitated so long you added it twice. ;-)

Or is that where the two hoots come into it?

 

[drummerman]

Unlike other cables in my system I have changed my power cables because I liked the look of the replacements and they were cheap (Audiofriendly Silver Power Cable).

I can't claim to have heard differences when I changed them but never really tried comparing them.

In case of the OP's system I would probably put some money aside and change the amplifier before attempting anything to ambitious with cabling.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

One of the 'upgrade' paths of Cyrus, a respected amp manufacture is a stand alone PSU for their kit.

Why?

The OP's amp choice I agree needs addressing before exotic cables become a consideration but why so dismissive?

 

[TrevC]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

One of the 'upgrade' paths of Cyrus, a respected amp manufacture is a stand alone PSU for their kit.

Why?

Making money, judging by the price of it.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

One of the 'upgrade' paths of Cyrus, a respected amp manufacture is a stand alone PSU for their kit.

Why?

Making money, judging by the price of it. 

I agree, but refer to the reviews and opinions of users.

 

[TrevC]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

One of the 'upgrade' paths of Cyrus, a respected amp manufacture is a stand alone PSU for their kit.

Why?

Making money, judging by the price of it.

I agree, but refer to the reviews and opinions of users.

It implies that the original PSU was inadequate.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I'll repeat what I said on another thread.

Think about it logically. Why would changing a power cord change the sound? And if it did, why would manufacturers of decent quality hi-fi equipment supply a power cord that doesn't show off their product at it's best?

One of the 'upgrade' paths of Cyrus, a respected amp manufacture is a stand alone PSU for their kit.

Why?

Making money, judging by the price of it. 

My mate uses a psu with his Cyrus cdp...before he bought it, I thought it was kidology? I don't hold with power cables to be honest! But it was a MASSIVE difference....not sure how? And before you say I'm fooling myself...come and have a listen..Even with cloth in ears you would notice..