Power cables

[Thompsonuxb]

I agree Trev. But Cyrus kit is highly regarded as stand alone products.

So where does that leave your argument if an 'upgrade' regards it's power supply brings improvements?

 

[TrevC]

I agree Trev. But Cyrus kit is highly regarded as stand alone products.

So where does that leave your argument if an 'upgrade' regards it's power supply brings improvements?

It's nothing to do with mains cables, so electronics and the laws of physics are unchallenged.

 

[kukulec]

Thank you all for the comments. Based on these, I think I will postpone this question. To the change of amp: I have just bought it with the speakers as I have found these a good match. If I upgrade, I think I will save a lot of money and go directly to bigger speakers, as I heared the difference between the Elac FS 147 and Elac FS 249.2, and it is clearly greater than between the Pio A-30 and Primare I32.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I agree Trev. But Cyrus kit is highly regarded as stand alone products.

So where does that leave your argument if an 'upgrade' regards it's power supply brings improvements?

It's nothing to do with mains cables, so electronics and the laws of physics are unchallenged.

?????.....

It's a PSU!!!! thats stands for power supply unit.

It shows that the power supplied can make differences.

Be it more extravagant than a plain old power chord but the principle......

Surely you see the relationship between the mains and how it gets to your kit ?

I mean why does it make a difference?

 

[iceman16]

I agree Trev. But Cyrus kit is highly regarded as stand alone products.

So where does that leave your argument if an 'upgrade' regards it's power supply brings improvements?

You've taken the bait!

It's nothing to do with mains cables, so electronics and the laws of physics are unchallenged.

?????.....

It's a PSU!!!! thats stands for power supply unit.

It shows that the power supplied can make differences.

Be it more extravagant than a plain old power chord but the principle......

Surely you see the relationship between the mains and how it gets to your kit ?

I mean why does it make a difference?

 

[Dom]

I bought a Wireworld Stratus factory upgraded silver clad IEC and Russ Andrews fuse. *biggrin*

 

[TrevC]

I agree Trev. But Cyrus kit is highly regarded as stand alone products.

So where does that leave your argument if an 'upgrade' regards it's power supply brings improvements?

It's nothing to do with mains cables, so electronics and the laws of physics are unchallenged.

?????.....

It's a PSU!!!! thats stands for power supply unit.

It shows that the power supplied can make differences.

Be it more extravagant than a plain old power chord but the principle......

Surely you see the relationship between the mains and how it gets to your kit ?

I mean why does it make a difference?

A mains lead just connects the power. Providing the current rating is adequate then all of them do that equally well, so can't affect the performance in any way.

Do you think I've said something similar to removing the power supply circuitry from your amp and replacing it with a phone charger will make no difference? Well let me put your mind at rest. I'm not saying that. Of course it will.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The PSX is a sophisticated power chord - it basically proves the power supply from the mains can make a difference depending on the 'chord' used.

Your argument is mute and ignores this fact.

A standard power chord can be improved upon and CAN improve the performance of any part in the hifi link.

Cyrus prove in this context you don't know what you're talking about.

How simple does it have to be before the penny drops......

 

[ID.]

Came in to confirm ThompsonUXB was here bringing the lols (and aggravating TrevC) and did not leave disappointed.

5 star thread. Would read again.

 

[TomSawyer]

The PSX is a sophisticated power chord - it basically proves the power supply from the mains can make a difference depending on the 'chord' used.

Your argument is mute and ignores this fact.

A standard power chord can be improved upon and CAN improve the performance of any part in the hifi link.

Cyrus prove in this context you don't know what you're talking about.

How simple does it have to be before the penny drops......

Sorry to be contrary, but isn't the fact that, for example the PSX-R has a 300VA transformer compared to say the Cyrus 8 Power amp of only 160VA, the reason the amps sound better with the upgrade.

It seems to me that Cyrus amps are limited by the the size of the case - lots of things can be miniturized but transformers are still pretty big - and the fact that adding a larger power supply improves the performance is an admission that the internal power supply is inadequate.

Does the PSX come with a fancy power chord?

OK, so this is a Cyrus 1, but it makes the point nicely:

 

[lindsayt]

Higher end power cables seem totally illogical to me.

So, you've got some mega fancy length of cable?

It may be much longer than you actually require it to be. It's got a crummy IEC C13 plug at one end. And in the UK it has a poxy BS1363 three pin plug at the other end.

Where's the sense in that?

Why not go for some overly thick cable that's hardwired as a single spur between the circuit breaker and the inside of the component? Whilst ensuring - above all - that it's safe and 100% legal?

As a compromise for ease of movement, why not go for cables that are hardwired to the inside of the equipment and use BS546 or IEC60309 wall sockets?

 

[hammill]

The PSX is a sophisticated power chord - it basically proves the power supply from the mains can make a difference depending on the 'chord' used.

Your argument is mute and ignores this fact.

A standard power chord can be improved upon and CAN improve the performance of any part in the hifi link.

Cyrus prove in this context you don't know what you're talking about.

How simple does it have to be before the penny drops......

Sorry to be contrary, but isn't the fact that, for example the PSX-R has a 300VA transformer compared to say the Cyrus 8 Power amp of only 160VA, the reason the amps sound better with the upgrade.

It seems to me that Cyrus amps are limited by the the size of the case - lots of things can be miniturized but transformers are still pretty big - and the fact that adding a larger power supply improves the performance is an admission that the internal power supply is inadequate.

Does the PSX come with a fancy power chord?

OK, so this is a Cyrus 1, but it makes the point nicely:

You are of course correct. Sadly Thompsonuxb will not believe you, but what can you expect form anyone who says "The PSX is a sophisticated power chord"

 

[drummerman]

Sorry to be contrary, but isn't the fact that, for example the PSX-R has a 300VA transformer compared to say the Cyrus 8 Power amp of only 160VA, the reason the amps sound better with the upgrade.

It seems to me that Cyrus amps are limited by the the size of the case - lots of things can be miniturized but transformers are still pretty big - and the fact that adding a larger power supply improves the performance is an admission that the internal power supply is inadequate.

Does the PSX come with a fancy power chord?

OK, so this is a Cyrus 1, but it makes the point nicely:

You are partly correct.

There is obviously a limit on how much of a power supply (especially linear AB) you can cramm into a box, especially one that is as sleek as the cyrus'.

However, 8 series integrateds (and probably a few preceding ones) have 300/330VA torroids. The same ones as in PSX-R's. The power supply is perfectly adequate for the rated power as are Naim's. Cyrus have actually very good driving capabilities into lower loads with good dynamic headroom.

As has been said before (by myself and others), the addition of a PSX-R is not to increase power. It is a highly regulated power supply for the Pre-amplification stage of the integrated (or small signal circuitry of other components). It leaves the built-in psu to deal with driving duties.

This will give you a similar result to a Pre-Power.

Any doubters should hear the difference it makes.

As to the integrated (for example) being inadequate on its own ... well, read test results if you can't make it to a dealer to listen to one.

It simply makes a good product a little bit better, thus allowing owners to upgrade in stages without splashing out higher in the range.

Just as an add-on, cyrus is far from the only company to supply external regulated supplies. They can be found in other brands and are often reported to make a considerable difference.

 

[CnoEvil]

OK, you said.

"The answer to this is very simple:

1. If you are a cable sceptic, you will resent paying extra for something that doesn't make a difference.2. If you are a believer, you are likely to have a favourite brand and budget in mind, so you won't want a fancy one supplied.

The sensible thing is to supply a cheap kettle lead and let each side go their own way."

That doesn't make any sense to me. If you are the manufacturer of a £1000 amp, why would you use a lead that doesn't make that amp sound as good as it can? The answer is, you wouldn't. 

The answer is, they don't need to supply an expensive (sales price, not manufacturing cost) power lead, because they know it makes no difference to the sound of their amp. 

Well, let me ask you a question - Would you pay an extra £150 for a £1k amp, because it had a fancy mains cable; or would you avoid it because you couldn't trust a brand that peddled in snake oil?

Every argument can be presented two ways in order to suit a particular position eg. Take the fact that at most hifi demonstrations, fancy power cables are used.
I could argue that that this is because manufacturers want to maximise the potential of their products, whereas you would probably argue that it is either to impress gullible audiophiles, or that they are trying to promote a particular brand of cable and get very lucrative sales off the back of it.

There are also companies who will sell you their own more expensive cable, like Rega and Naim...again a different argument can be made, depending on your POV.

 

[TrevC]

The PSX is a sophisticated power chord - it basically proves the power supply from the mains can make a difference depending on the 'chord' used.

Your argument is mute and ignores this fact.

A standard power chord can be improved upon and CAN improve the performance of any part in the hifi link.

Cyrus prove in this context you don't know what you're talking about.

How simple does it have to be before the penny drops......

Sorry to be contrary, but isn't the fact that, for example the PSX-R has a 300VA transformer compared to say the Cyrus 8 Power amp of only 160VA, the reason the amps sound better with the upgrade.

It seems to me that Cyrus amps are limited by the the size of the case - lots of things can be miniturized but transformers are still pretty big - and the fact that adding a larger power supply improves the performance is an admission that the internal power supply is inadequate.

Does the PSX come with a fancy power chord?

OK, so this is a Cyrus 1, but it makes the point nicely:

You are of course correct. Sadly Thompsonuxb will not believe you, but what can you expect form anyone who says "The PSX is a sophisticated power chord"

I like the "your argument is mute" bit, LOL.

 

[TomSawyer]

Hi Drummerman, you've misinterpreted (or over-interpreted) my point. It was merely that the PSX isn't a fancy power cable but a whole pile of additional oomph and so doesn't, of itself, make the case for fancy power cables. My point was that it does make a difference because, as you say, it is analagous to a pre-power setup (ish).

My point stands, though, that the benefit of any additional power supply could have been realised by just using a normal sized case and including the additional kit within it rather than selling an amp that doesn't meet its full potential and a separate box to bring it up. But, I'm not being critical - it's a perfectly good marketing strategy and allows for those who want lower power but compact devices the choice.

 

[MajorFubar]

Breaking down a PSX figures....it's a glorified power chord.

Stop making yourself look like a blithering idiot, fundamentally you're one of the good guys and I'm embarrased for you.

 

[TrevC]

Lol......

Let's see how long before you guys start to back peddle.

Drummermans post explains alot the device 'regulates' the mains supply.

To assume a 'boutique' power chord does not do a similar task to give a better performance....

These things are created by R&D carried out by some respected manufacturers.

So some want to stand there bellowing 'they don't make a difference'......if said often enough it becomes the truth. Yet actual devices regulating mains supply are out there bringing am improvement in performance.....c'mon.

Breaking down a PSX figures....it's a glorified power chord.

It does not work in parallel to the standard chord. It replaces it. And it makes an audible difference.

I guarantee nobody will back peddle, because they aren't peddling anything, LOL.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol......

Let's see how long before you guys start to back peddle.

Drummermans post explains alot, the device 'regulates' the supply from the mains.

To assume a 'boutique' power chord does not or cannot do a similar task to give a better performance....

These things are created by R&D carried out by some respected manufacturers.

So some want to stand there bellowing 'they don't make a difference'......if said often enough it becomes the truth.

Yet actual devices regulating mains supply are out there bringing an improvement in performance.....c'mon.

Breaking down a PSX figures....it's a glorified power chord.

It does not work in parallel to the standard chord. It replaces it. And it makes an audible difference.

 

[drummerman]

Hi Drummerman, you've misinterpreted (or over-interpreted) my point. It was merely that the PSX isn't a fancy power cable but a whole pile of additional oomph and so doesn't, of itself, make the case for fancy power cables. My point was that it does make a difference because, as you say, it is analagous to a pre-power setup (ish).

My point stands, though, that the benefit of any additional power supply could have been realised by just using a normal sized case and including the additional kit within it rather than selling an amp that doesn't meet its full potential and a separate box to bring it up. But, I'm not being critical - it's a perfectly good marketing strategy and allows for those who want lower power but compact devices the choice.

Not everyone can afford a £1800 integrated straight away.

Those that can have umpteen options.

 

[TrevC]

Hi Drummerman, you've misinterpreted (or over-interpreted) my point. It was merely that the PSX isn't a fancy power cable but a whole pile of additional oomph and so doesn't, of itself, make the case for fancy power cables. My point was that it does make a difference because, as you say, it is analagous to a pre-power setup (ish).

My point stands, though, that the benefit of any additional power supply could have been realised by just using a normal sized case and including the additional kit within it rather than selling an amp that doesn't meet its full potential and a separate box to bring it up. But, I'm not being critical - it's a perfectly good marketing strategy and allows for those who want lower power but compact devices the choice.

Not everyone can afford a £1800 integrated straight away.

Those that can have umpteen options.

Did they really cost that much? Wow.

 

[TomSawyer]

Hi Drummerman, you've misinterpreted (or over-interpreted) my point. It was merely that the PSX isn't a fancy power cable but a whole pile of additional oomph and so doesn't, of itself, make the case for fancy power cables. My point was that it does make a difference because, as you say, it is analagous to a pre-power setup (ish).

My point stands, though, that the benefit of any additional power supply could have been realised by just using a normal sized case and including the additional kit within it rather than selling an amp that doesn't meet its full potential and a separate box to bring it up. But, I'm not being critical - it's a perfectly good marketing strategy and allows for those who want lower power but compact devices the choice.

Not everyone can afford a £1800 integrated straight away.

Those that can have umpteen options.

 

I agree, as I said, a good marketing strategy but in no way supportive of the fancy power cable argument which is why it was originally raised.

 

[TrevC]

As has been said before (by myself and others), the addition of a PSX-R is not to increase power. It is a highly regulated power supply for the Pre-amplification stage of the integrated (or small signal circuitry of other components). It leaves the built-in psu to deal with driving duties.

Wrong. You don't need a wacking great toroid to feed a preamp, so of course it is to increase power. The far bigger caps would also improve the sound by lowering the output impedance.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Breaking down a PSX figures....it's a glorified power chord.

Stop making yourself look like a blithering idiot, fundamentally you're one of the good guys and I'm embarrased for you.

Major once again you project you shortcomings onto me - don't be embarrassed for me save it for yourself you'll need all that embarrassment later....

 

[MajorFubar]

PSX (on the C2) is a whacking 500VA regulated power supply supported by a quartet of 15,000uf capacitors that feeds just the the power-amp section of the amplifier, increasing the power output from 50WRMS per channel to 70WRMS per channel and allowing the amp to deliver current-swings as big as 60A peak to peak. Difficult speakers get taught a lesson in who's boss. It couldn't be more different to just changing a mains cable.