Power cable

[shadders]

Read what I have written - they might well have known and noticed the change to their cables same as the zip cord.

But that change is the same to all of them as they are all coiled - so they are all fairly tested and recorded.

Plus you have to think the whole point of the demo is comparing a direct connection to a cable.

So by coiling their cables that actually making them sound not as designed so for all intensive purposes doing themselves out of a promotion opportunity to say look our cables sound as good as a direct connection.

But thats not the whole point.

Plus there is no point doing a sound quality test in that room - its horrendous and impossible to do it for that many people spread out.

Its more a simple and small demo system then can pack in the boot of a car and still demonstrate their point which they do extremely convincingly.

Hi,

By coiling the cables, they created new cables, and they did not notice the change in sound. This is a fundamental issue which shows you there is no difference in cable sound.

The change is NOT the same for all cables. The cable characteristics are interelated in that the major change in inductance modifies each cable characteristic differently. So, the fact that THEIR demonstration produced the results that THEY wanted to present, raises a further issue.

Again, they created a new cable and NEVER noticed the difference.

As always, never believe everyting you are told. These are marketing/sales videos - and they do just that - sell you stuff.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[ellisdj]

How can you say they didnt notice a difference - how can you 100% say that - You cant. You dont know that.

How do you know that all 3 cables there have different parameters? You dont.

How do you know that by coiling them it changed them to be different and not the same - You Dont

So there are 3 major things there you dont actually 100% know - yet your basing your whole daming argument on facts you dont have - Thats not very engineering of you.

What facts do we have

1 - all cables are coiled and in the same place in the world - magnetic inteference from external forces be the same

2 - all cables tested the same way

3 - test rig is constant, test room is constant, mains noise and airbourne rfi constant, time year same, time day pretty much same. temp same - all the other sutff you brought up earlier in the thread as potential causes of change all covered yes.

4 - were assuming recording rig is constant - it certainly sounds like in the video - at least for the sets of tests their doing

The result is clear though and you can watch it 1000 times and it will still be the same - so you can say there is a grey area but your damning arguement is not 100% its a guess.

So in this instance the cables clearly changed the sound.

Lets also consider the Garth Powell Audioquest Niagra video where its clear that mains conditioner changes the sound. There is a pattern forming here - can anyone see - thanks to you tube pro cable peoplr have never had it better to show off .....

I dont dare link to the StillPoints video that clearly shows how isolation products change the sound of products you would say are not microphonic there could be a coronary or 2 out there just at the thought of it.

 

[shadders]

How can you say they didnt notice a difference - how can you 100% say that - You cant. You dont know that.

Then it is not an honest demonstration. They state EM theory in the video - and therefore WILL know that coiling the cables will create an inductor that swamps the self inductance of the wire/cable. They know this because they know EM theory. Therefore they will know that the sound of the cable will change. If they did not notice the difference- then cables don't sound different.

How do you know that all 3 cables there have different parameters? You dont.

If they had same parameters, then they would all sound the same - yet in the video and you, are stating they sounded different.

How do you know that by coiling them it changed them to be different and not the same - You Dont

Since in engineering, that is how inductors are made - they are coiled wires - look up inductors. The inductance per metre will be swamped by the inductance by coiling them.

So there are 3 major things there you dont actually 100% know - yet your basing your whole daming argument on facts you dont have - Thats not very engineering of you.

As above. You have not understood what is written by me, so claim i am getting it wrong.

What facts do we have

1 - all cables are coiled and in the same place in the world - magnetic inteference from external forces be the same

This is not an issue - it is the fact that the cable is coiled which creates an inductor.

2 - all cables tested the same way

I never stated that they were not.

3 - test rig is constant, test room is constant, mains noise and airbourne rfi constant, time year same, time day pretty much same. temp same - all the other sutff you brought up earlier in the thread as potential causes of change all covered yes.

I never claimed any of the above. I have stated that the coiling of the cable creates an inductor, which is scientific/engineering fact.

4 - were assuming recording rig is constant - it certainly sounds like in the video - at least for the sets of tests their doing

I make no such assumption.

The result is clear though and you can watch it 1000 times and it will still be the same - so you can say there is a grey area but your damning arguement is not 100% its a guess.

Incorrect - not a guess. See above.

So in this instance the cables clearly changed the sound.

I was not there, so cannot comment

Lets also consider the Garth Powell Audioquest Niagra video where its clear that mains conditioner changes the sound. There is a pattern forming here - can anyone see - thanks to you tube pro cable have never had it better to show off .....

Not seen the video. Cannot comment.

I dont dare link to the StillPoints video that clearly shows how isolation products change the sound of products you would say are not microphonic there could be a coronary or 2 out there just at the thought of it.

Not stated any product are not microphonic.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Vladimir]

When Charles Saatchi was choking Nigella, her first thought was: This is how AC signal through coiled speaker cables must feel like.

 

[ellisdj]

I knew you would say all that I had a response all planned out but at ease Shadders night off I am watching Rogue One on my average system made amazing by snake oil.

TBC......

 

[Blacksabbath25]

What about this company products then of the use of magnets https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLV69S1_-_0

 

[shadders]

What about this company products then of the use of magnets https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLV69S1_-_0

Hi,

Just out of curiosity, is it expensive?

I watched the video, more information is needed.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Vladimir]

What about this company products then of the use of magnets Virtual Dynamics! *lol*

Their flagship power cable presented by the legendary Patrick. *yahoo*

The cable was named The Judge and sold for $20,000 IIRC

Oh the memories! Not all good. *biggrin*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

What about this company products then of the use of magnets https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLV69S1_-_0

Hi,

Just out of curiosity, is it expensive?

I watched the video, more information is needed.

Regards,

Shadders.

very expensive the speaker cables sell at $1000 a meter but was wondering if magnetic fields make any difference as this is the first time I've come across something like this before

 

[Blacksabbath25]

What about this company products then of the use of magnets Virtual Dynamics! *lol*

Their flagship power cable presented by the legendary Patrick. *yahoo*

The cable was named The Judge and sold for $20,000 IIRC

Oh the memories! Not all good. *biggrin*

I like this reviewer this is a review on one of ricks cables .... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3M1o-YW2s2A

 

[shadders]

What about this company products then of the use of magnets https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLV69S1_-_0

Hi,

Just out of curiosity, is it expensive?

I watched the video, more information is needed.

Regards,

Shadders.

very expensive the speaker cables sell at $1000 a meter but was wondering if magnetic fields make any difference as this is the first time I've come across something like this before

Hi,

That is peanuts, some cable costs £2,400 per metre.

Not knowing how it is constructed, then cannot determine what it is doing, but the video showed tubes (magnets???) with the cable passing through. This may focus "something" as per the video, but then the remaining section of the cable will not be under this influence. I am sceptical, but then, as per ferrite rings, they do have an effect.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

What about this company products then of the use of magnets https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLV69S1_-_0

Hi,

Just out of curiosity, is it expensive?

I watched the video, more information is needed.

Regards,

Shadders.

very expensive the speaker cables sell at $1000 a meter but was wondering if magnetic fields make any difference as this is the first time I've come across something like this before

Hi,

That is peanuts, some cable costs £2,400 per metre.

Not knowing how it is constructed, then cannot determine what it is doing, but the video showed tubes (magnets???) with the cable passing through. This may focus "something" as per the video, but then the remaining section of the cable will not be under this influence. I am sceptical, but then, as per ferrite rings, they do have an effect.

Regards,

Shadders.

this is the only video I can find rick explaining the technology...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-ez8EzAFQ-c

 

[shadders]

What about this company products then of the use of magnets https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLV69S1_-_0

Hi,

Just out of curiosity, is it expensive?

I watched the video, more information is needed.

Regards,

Shadders.

very expensive the speaker cables sell at $1000 a meter but was wondering if magnetic fields make any difference as this is the first time I've come across something like this before

Hi,

That is peanuts, some cable costs £2,400 per metre.

Not knowing how it is constructed, then cannot determine what it is doing, but the video showed tubes (magnets???) with the cable passing through. This may focus "something" as per the video, but then the remaining section of the cable will not be under this influence. I am sceptical, but then, as per ferrite rings, they do have an effect.

Regards,

Shadders.

this is the only video I can find rick explaining the technology...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-ez8EzAFQ-c

Hi,

I watched the video, seems to make a mistake, where a magnetic field is a moving electric field, and he states something different. A lot of technical words that don't really make a coherent case of what the product is doing. I have seen a few videos from this thread, and in general, they are sales videos, without backup of information proving what is being stated.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Andrewjvt]

What about this company products then of the use of magnets  Virtual Dynamics! *lol* 

Their flagship power cable presented by the legendary Patrick. *yahoo*

The cable was named The Judge and sold for $20,000 IIRC

Oh the memories! Not all good. *biggrin*

Looks like devialet owners playing with the remote

Now i can see what he meant

 

[lindsayt]

Hi-fi forums display a variation on Parkinson's law of triviality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

"The time spent on any item of the agenda will be in inverse proportion to the sum [of money] involved."

Except with hi-fi forums: The time spent debating any item is inversely proportional to the importance it has to the overall sound of a system.

 

[andyjm]

Hi-fi forums display a variation on Parkinson's law of triviality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

"The time spent on any item of the agenda will be in inverse proportion to the sum [of money] involved."

Except with hi-fi forums: The time spent debating any item is inversely proportional to the importance it has to the overall sound of a system.

I think you have that equation wrong. There are in fact two equations.

1. The importance an item has to the overall sound of a system is inversely proportional to the square of the time spent debating it.

2. The time spent debating an item on an internet forum is inversely proportional to the participant's average knowledge on the subject of the debate.

 

[lindsayt]

So you think people have more knowledge on the internal workings of an amplifier than they do on power cables? Amd it's not so much how much knowledge they have, it's how much knowledge they think they have.

In Parkinson's example, the multi million pound nuclear reactor gets passed in 2 minutes because only 1 person in the comittee understands them and he can't be bothered to explain them to everyone else, the bicycle shed takes 40 minutes as a lot of people feel they understand shed roofs and the refreshements take over an hour because everyone thinks they know coffee!

 

[chebby]

127 new updates when I refreshed the 'active topics' this morning..

This thread is now impossible to keep up with for a normal, working person with a family life.

 

[ellisdj]

127 new updates when I refreshed the 'active topics' this morning..

This thread is now impossible to keep up with for a normal, working person with a family life.

You can skip 99 of them Cheby - just read my posts - all waffle from Shadders and Vlad

 

[chebby]

I read Vlad for laughs and Andyjm for experienced, qualified comment. (He makes a LOT of sense and would be a valuable resource on this forum in another era than the 'post truth' one we find ourselves in!)

I draw on my own 35 years in IT and networks (and a largely science/tech based higher education) to 'moderate' the pseudo-science passed on from the marketing departments of various hi-fi accessories sellers.

 

[ellisdj]

I read Vlad for laughs and Andyjm for experienced, qualified comment.... and EllisDJ's for buying advice as he is the man

Well said Chebby

 

[chebby]

Please undo the fake quote. Further down the line people might think I wrote that.

It's the height of bad forum manners.

Thank you.

 

[ellisdj]

Please undo the fake quote. Further down the line people might think I wrote that.

It's the height of bad forum manners.

Thank you.

LOL thats funny chebby - no sense of humour in the hifi community

 

[Blacksabbath25]

i just brought some cheap clip-on ferrite rings of amazon for £5.65p for 10 so will see what happens if anything its wouth a try its cheap to do

 

[shadders]

i just brought some cheap clip-on ferrite rings of amazon for £5.65p for 10 so will see what happens if anything its wouth a try its cheap to do

Hi,

Try putting a magnet on each ring to see if that makes a difference. This would be as close to the cable manufacturers design as you can get without the £1,000 costs. The tubes that the cable company used are much longer.

Regards,

Shadders.