Power cable

[ellisdj]

Post 800 I will make it a good one - I know your all waiting now to see it. Hope it doesnt dissapoint.

Bobby Owsinski. Bobby was a leading sceptic before he experienced the cable polygraph tests and tried our cables in his recording and post production work. He now uses and recommends Wireworld cables exclusively. He also believes that these theories would be meaningless if the cables did not improve fidelity, both measurable and audible. Upgrade cables can only improve fidelity if the generid cables they replace are causing audible degradation.[/b]

The four large turns in the 10 foot long 14AWG zip cord actually reduce the circuit inductance by about 1% due to increased mutual inductance, so predicting that those few loose turns would be audible is completely nonsensical.

Best,

David

 

[shadders]

Post 800 I will make it a good one - I know your all waiting now to see it. Hope it doesnt dissapoint.

Bobby Owsinski. Bobby was a leading sceptic before he experienced the cable polygraph tests and tried our cables in his recording and post production work. He now uses and recommends Wireworld cables exclusively. He also believes that these theories would be meaningless if the cables did not improve fidelity, both measurable and audible. Upgrade cables can only improve fidelity if the generid cables they replace are causing audible degradation.[/b]

The four large turns in the 10 foot long 14AWG zip cord actually reduce the circuit inductance by about 1% due to increased mutual inductance, so predicting that those few loose turns would be audible is completely nonsensical.

Best,

David

Hi,

Using the web site :

http://www.66pacific.com/calculators/coil-inductance-calculator.aspx

Parameters used are centimetres, single layer coil, 4 turns, 30 (cm) diameter, length is 3cm (see diagram). Result is 8.6uH inductance.

10 feet of cable is 3metres - QED 79 strand is 0.66uH per metre - hence total inductance for 3 metres (10 foot) is 1.98uH.

As such the inductance is increased 4.3x.

I previously assumed more turns, so reduced turns means lower inductance.

Anyway - i have seen the results of coiling double screened video cable - severe interference. Speaker cable is not screened.

Highlighted text seems contradictory.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[ellisdj]

Lot of assumptions in those numbers Shadders like size of coil.

No maths for effect of mutual inductance.

So i think we can assume the coiling has no or little effect on the sound. So it what the mic picks up thats important.

You can all listen and hear that for yourself.

As shadders has never done it any of who have done enough cable testing can associate the differences to what we have heard before.

Great video to link Vlad

 

[shadders]

Lot of assumptions in those numbers Shadders like size of coil.

No maths for effect of mutual inductance.

So i think we can assume the coiling has no or little effect on the sound. So it what the mic picks up thats important.

You can all listen and hear that for yourself.

As shadders has never done it any of who have done enough cable testing can associate the differences to what we have heard before.

Great video to link Vlad

Hi,

You cannot claim i have wrong assumptions and then claim your assumptions are ok. (see highlighted)

10 feet of cable with 4 turns is 2.5feet per turn. Using this as the circumference, and PI x Diameter formula - we obtain a diameter of 24.25cm. Using these figures :

4 turns, 24.25diameter, 3cm width of the coil = 6.7uH which is 3.4x more inductance - this is loosely coiled speaker wire.

As above but more realistic 2cm width : 7.2uH which is 3.6x more inductance.

The text you provided has a contradiction as highlighted.

Ask the cable manufacturer to provide their proof of cables reduce in inductance due to coiling and increase in inductance due to coiling - they are contradicting themselves.

Anyway, moot point, all you need to do is take the James Randi test and win yourself $1,000,000.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Lot of assumptions in those numbers Shadders like size of coil.

No maths for effect of mutual inductance.

So i think we can assume the coiling has no or little effect on the sound. So it what the mic picks up thats important.

You can all listen and hear that for yourself.

As shadders has never done it any of who have done enough cable testing can associate the differences to what we have heard before.

Great video to link Vlad

hi I can tell a difference between audioquest rocket 33 solid core and atlas hype speaker cable which when I hooked each one up there is a night and day difference between the 2 cables .

now if your talking to this chap about cables being coiled up do you think he could give actual proof that there is a difference in cables so we do not look like we are nuts .

because I believe theses companies that make cables like audioquest , atlas and so on would do them selfs a favor to let us all no what proof they have that there are differences in some cables .

 

[Andrewjvt]

These cable merchants always state someone that was also sceptic at first until he heard the difference.

And always a confession also

Upgrade cables can only improve fidelity if the generid cables they replace are causing audible degradation.

 

[lindsayt]

The cable polygraph test. I didn't get to the end without falling asleep

But wasn't that a test of SPEAKER cables and not POWER cables?

Isn't this test therefore off topic? Or a non sequitor to apply it to power cables?

Speaker cables are in the signal path and are part of the amp-speaker circuit. Power cables aren't in the signal path. They are a short part of the sub station to amplifier power supply circuit.

 

[ellisdj]

Andrew he has a reference to compare a direct connection.
If a generic cable sounds the same as the direct connection it doesnt need changing.

He doesnt contradict himself shadders he says no audible difference up to 5 turns and they are using 4.
Difference of maybe 1% which is not audible.

Listen to the examples in the demo its clear as day and night like Sabbath says

 

[shadders]

Andrew he has a reference to compare a direct connection. If a generic cable sounds the same as the direct connection it doesnt need changing.

He doesnt contradict himself shadders he says no audible difference up to 5 turns and they are using 4. Difference of maybe 1% which is not audible.

Listen to the examples in the demo its clear as day and night like Sabbath says

Hi,

Your copied text states increase in the first paragraph., and a decrease of 1% in the last paragraph. They are contradicting themselves.

They have provided no proof, just claims.

I have provided proof - it is an approximation - 3x increase at least with revisions based on their statements. See the website i linked to - you can check for yourself. It is not perfect, but a good approximation.

You do not read what is written by others, and then select those aspects from your sources which only agree with you.

Anyway - again, moot point, you just need to take the James Randi test and earn yourself $1,000,000. I don't understand why you haven't.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[ellisdj]

You havent proved the change in inductance will be audible.

The increased inductance will be common to all cables tested and as David Spalz says its Not audible on his cables so its very likely not audible on the zip cord either

What is audible is the differences between a direct connection and the 3 other cables as recorded.

 

[shadders]

You havent proved the change in inductance will be audible.

The increased inductance will be common to all cables tested and as David Spalz says its Not audible on his cables so its very likely not audible on the zip cord either

What is audible is the differences between a direct connection and the 3 other cables as recorded.

Hi,

A 2013 magazine review of 12 cables whose inductance range from 0.095uH/m (lowest - an outlier), 0.21uH/m (lowest) to 0.84uH/m (maximum), all are reviewed as being different.

3metres/10 feet of cable if the inductance is 0.5uH/m has a total inductance of 1.5uH.

The coiling of the cable as per previous parameters is 7.5uH total.

So if all 12 cables in the review are different with such small total inductance of 1.5uH on average, then a cable with a total inductance of 7.5uH MUST be audibly different.

This was never picked up upon in the demo. If they are comparing with direct - then how can such a change not be noticed ?.

You, yourself claim that you know your system. What you are stating is that if someone changed your cable without you knowing, you wouldn't notice the difference because it is not a change/comparison. So in essence, you can change the cables in your system and you would be none the wiser.

Of course the cable company will say it is not audible- that because cables DON'T have a sound, not because there is no change.

You only want to believe those people who agree with your beliefs.

Again, you can take the James Randi test and earn yourself $1,000,000. Why haven't you done this yet ?

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Vladimir]

From experience I can confirm its audible with low strand conductors (aka solid core). However, when you braid or twist it the effect stops. So will coiling braided/twisted cables like on the video raise inductance?

 

[shadders]

From experience I can confirm its audible with low strand conductors (aka solid core). However, when you braid or twist it the effect stops. So will coiling braided/twisted cables like on the video raise inductance?

Hi,

I would state yes, since the magnetic field is a function of current direction and hence faradays right hand screw rule. Can you check please? Thanks.

Regards,

Shadders

 

[Vladimir]

From experience I can confirm its audible with low strand conductors (aka solid core). However, when you braid or twist it the effect stops. So will coiling braided/twisted cables like on the video raise inductance?

Hi,

I would state yes, since the magnetic field is a function of current direction and hence faradays right hand screw rule. Can you check please? Thanks.

Regards,

Shadders

I just remembered my extension cord reel that I use for the lawn mower had a safety sticker. *Don't use untill fully extended.* and the flex was standart 3 conductor twisted in a plastic jacket.

 

[ellisdj]

There have been hundreds of magazine cable group tests and they all resulted in the result of the cables sounding different lol. No shock there...

I am going to get some 79 strand and see how it sounds compared to what I have and see if i can notice any difference.

My current speaker cables are 3m long but i dont need that long.

To compare the 2 so you dont have a numbers **** fit if I bought a 2metre pair to compare would that matter??

 

[Blacksabbath25]

From experience I can confirm its audible with low strand conductors (aka solid core). However, when you braid or twist it the effect stops. So will coiling braided/twisted cables like on the video raise inductance?

Hi,

I would state yes, since the magnetic field is a function of current direction and hence faradays right hand screw rule. Can you check please? Thanks.

Regards,

Shadders

I just remembered my extension cord reel that I use for the lawn mower had a safety sticker. *Don't use untill fully extended.* and the flex was standart 3 conductor twisted in a plastic jacket.

your right about the extension reel

ones I never undone all of the reel and left the reel plugged in when I came back to it the reel had melted all of the cables together and there was nearly a fire .

so electricity cable in a reel will conduct heat which in turn ruined the extension reel .

 

[shadders]

From experience I can confirm its audible with low strand conductors (aka solid core). However, when you braid or twist it the effect stops. So will coiling braided/twisted cables like on the video raise inductance?

Hi,

I would state yes, since the magnetic field is a function of current direction and hence faradays right hand screw rule. Can you check please? Thanks.

Regards,

Shadders

I just remembered my extension cord reel that I use for the lawn mower had a safety sticker. *Don't use untill fully extended.* and the flex was standart 3 conductor twisted in a plastic jacket.

Hi,

I just checked mine, no such warning. I can see a potential problem with increased inductance reducing voltage delivered to the load, but not a safety issue. Is this how you would interpret the issue?

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[shadders]

From experience I can confirm its audible with low strand conductors (aka solid core). However, when you braid or twist it the effect stops. So will coiling braided/twisted cables like on the video raise inductance?

Hi,

I would state yes, since the magnetic field is a function of current direction and hence faradays right hand screw rule. Can you check please? Thanks.

Regards,

Shadders

I just remembered my extension cord reel that I use for the lawn mower had a safety sticker. *Don't use untill fully extended.* and the flex was standart 3 conductor twisted in a plastic jacket.

your right about the extension reel

ones I never undone all of the reel and left the reel plugged in when I came back to it the reel had melted all of the cables together and there was nearly a fire .

so electricity cable in a reel will conduct heat which in turn ruined the extension reel .

Hi,

Crikey, i stand corrected onthe safety issue - that does sound bad.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

There have been hundreds of magazine cable group tests and they all resulted in the result of the cables sounding different lol. No shock there...

I am going to get some 79 strand and see how it sounds compared to what I have and see if i can notice any difference.

My current speaker cables are 3m long but i dont need that long.

To compare the 2 so you dont have a numbers **** fit if I bought a 2metre pair to compare would that matter??

try solid core cable and then try stranded I bet it sounds different a night and day difference

 

[Andrewjvt]

There have been hundreds of magazine cable group tests and they all resulted in the result of the cables sounding different lol. No shock there...

I am going to get some 79 strand and see how it sounds compared to what I have and see if i can notice any difference.

My current speaker cables are 3m long but i dont need that long.

To compare the 2 so you dont have a numbers **** fit if I bought a 2metre pair to compare would that matter??

Ill post you cheap cables to test.
Im sure they will be good enough 6mm thick
and only £12 in cost

To my placebo they were a nassive improvement to the qed **** i had on

 

[Blacksabbath25]

From experience I can confirm its audible with low strand conductors (aka solid core). However, when you braid or twist it the effect stops. So will coiling braided/twisted cables like on the video raise inductance?

Hi,

I would state yes, since the magnetic field is a function of current direction and hence faradays right hand screw rule. Can you check please? Thanks.

Regards,

Shadders

I just remembered my extension cord reel that I use for the lawn mower had a safety sticker. *Don't use untill fully extended.* and the flex was standart 3 conductor twisted in a plastic jacket.

your right about the extension reel

ones I never undone all of the reel and left the reel plugged in when I came back to it the reel had melted all of the cables together and there was nearly a fire .

so electricity cable in a reel will conduct heat which in turn ruined the extension reel .

Hi,

Crikey, i stand corrected onthe safety issue - that does sound bad.

Regards,

Shadders.

yes my boss was not very happy with me as it was a new extension reel it even had a cut off on the reel but it still melted the cables

 

[shadders]

There have been hundreds of magazine cable group tests and they all resulted in the result of the cables sounding different lol. No shock there...

I am going to get some 79 strand and see how it sounds compared to what I have and see if i can notice any difference.

My current speaker cables are 3m long but i dont need that long.

To compare the 2 so you dont have a numbers **** fit if I bought a 2metre pair to compare would that matter??

Hi,

Yes - same length means you are comparing like with like.

The issue is - the change in coiled speaker cable sound was not noticed. The change is significant - since a range in the magazine for 3metres is 0.63uH to 2.52uH, and the coiled is 7.5uH.

If it is no shock that a magazine finds cables different, which i assume is a sarcastic comment, then why not a sarcastic comment with cable manufacturers ? They provide no proof.

The James Randi test is an obvious discreditor with regards to cable manufacturers.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[ellisdj]

Is James Randi going to pay to fly me to the states and put me up all expenses paid for a week while I condition my hearing to a new climate I doubt it.

He could come to me but I dont allow anyone called James into my house.

Better than that is recording the test.

If I need to buy 3m pair thats cost me another 5 squiddlies You are taking preverbial

Cheers Andrew dude but its got to be qed 79 strand.
I would have it terminated to make swopping easier. Is that allowed?

 

[Gaz37]

Is James Randi going to pay to fly me to the states and put me up all expenses paid for a week while I condition my hearing to a new climate I doubt it.

He could come to me but I dont allow anyone called James into my house.

Better than that is recording the test.

If I need to buy 3m pair thats cost me another 5 squiddlies You are taking preverbial

Cheers Andrew dude but its got to be qed 79 strand.
I would have it terminated to make swopping easier. Is that allowed?

You'll be $1 million better off when you prove what you believe.
If I was so sure I'd remortgage my house to get to James Randi's to claim that prize.
Why wouldn't you?

 

[Frank Harvey]

I believe the Randi test didn't allow you to choose the components used? I seem to remember debating this a few years ago. I'd do it if I can choose the cables and system.