Power cable

[ellisdj]

Thats why talk is cheap and people like TrevC / Oldphrt can be damning of lemons like me.

But its about the sound of the system you can get in your own room - thats the only indicator of whether someones doing things right or wrong.

Its only after someone listens to it can they have any opinion on whether you have wasted your money - you cant say that before. He will disagree but you cant. I bet noone would listen to mine and say I have wasted my money. I am confident of that at least

 

[shadders]

And we wonder why it's a shrinking hobby. But then I suppose you have this aspect in virtually every hobby you could probably name - it's not exlcusive to hi-fi.

Hi,

I don't think this thread is any indication as to why hifi is a shrinking market/hobby. In the 70's and early 80's a hifi in the home was an important part of culture (or aspiration), today, it is quantity over quality, due to convenience of MP3 etc. People want the latest mobile, not the latest hifi.

For electronics, the number of publications has declined severely, and they are now only subscription - WH Smiths etc., do not stock them all as they did once before.

As you have stated - this thread is probably repeated elswhere in the same genre, or different hobbies. People don't change.

Regards,

Shadders.

It wasn't so much just about this thread (although I'm sure those tuning in for the first time would more than likely be put off reading any further, let alone joining up), but also videos like the linked one talking about huge gains from mains cables etc, and that high quality electronics sound naff without them. Complete tosh.

If you have a high quality system, by all means research and audition mains cables (or just buy some if you really want them), but anyone in the budget arena, or even to some extent, in the midfield of audio, really should be concentrating on set up/placement etc, and making sure their existing or system is well chosen and put together in the first place. Although, I'd look at plumbing in a separate mains spur just for the hi-fi before even looking at mains cables, or maybe a mains regeneration unit - again, not cheap, so more for those who have spent a lot on their hi-fi and their next step is crazy money anyway.

Hi,

I can see that the debate may put people off - but also, may intrigue some people.

Yes - so many more gains to be had from buying hifi equipment than cables.

I am not sure about mains spurs - have some people in a neighbours house using a grinder to cut tiles - every time it starts, the lights dim/dip. We are probably on the same phase - or it could be a reason why my electricity bills are high - there is a rogue connection somewhere......

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[shadders]

Thats why talk is cheap and people like TrevC / Oldphrt can be damning of lemons like me.

But its about the sound of the system you can get in your own room - thats the only indicator of whether someones doing things right or wrong.

Its only after someone listens to it can they have any opinion on whether you have wasted your money - you cant say that before. He will disagree but you cant. I bet noone would listen to mine and say I have wasted my money. I am confident of that at least

Hi,

The cost of copper is approximately 97p per kg (highest price i could find).

Weigh your cables and see how much they cost from the raw materials.

Sorry about this.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Vladimir]

All the music that could have been paid for instead?

I have a foot in both camps.....this sort of promotion got me trying a variety of filtering/conditioning/mains regeneration, in my system. To my ears, they all changed the sound....but for my taste, it was for the worse.

40% will hear decline in performance, 40% will hear no changes, and 20% will be stoked how better it sounds. You only need those 20% to run a successful placebo business as long as you keep margins high enough.

 

[ellisdj]

Its not about that shadders - its only about the sound you create - or dont create.

Money spent to do it is irrelevant. We all spend what we need to to get it where we want it

 

[shadders]

Its not about that shadders - its only about the sound you create - or dont create.

Money spent to do it is irrelevant. We all spend what we need to to get it where we want it

Hi,

My point here is, what value are they offering ?. What is it about the cable (mains or speaker) that means that it is worth a lot of money.

To put it into perspective, 3metres of copper speaker cable which has 2.5mm^2 cross sectional area (typical 79 strand) will have 134.4grams of copper, which will cost £1.30.

So for two speakers this is £2.60 - the cost of a large latte.

Check this against the cost of your speaker cables - how much per metre and hence cost for 2 x 3metre.

QED 79 strand is for a 10metre run, £21.00 - so £2.10 per metre, or £6.30 per 3metres, or for two runs 2 x 3metres = £12.60. Very very good value for money.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Oldphrt]

Thats why talk is cheap and people like TrevC / Oldphrt can be damning of lemons like me.

But its about the sound of the system you can get in your own room - thats the only indicator of whether someones doing things right or wrong.

Its only after someone listens to it can they have any opinion on whether you have wasted your money - you cant say that before. He will disagree but you cant. I bet noone would listen to mine and say I have wasted my money. I am confident of that at least

Try a test. Remove all the mains foo and compare.

 

[ellisdj]

That does make logical very good sense to buy it when you put it like that.

But am I going to sell mine and buy that - I would rather eat leather mate to be honest. Never going to happen

Why is it worth it - because my system sounds as it does with it in to me - so to me thats good enough for me. Value doesnt come into it Shadders. It costs what it costs that is my take on it for everything

 

[ellisdj]

Thats why talk is cheap and people like TrevC / Oldphrt can be damning of lemons like me.

But its about the sound of the system you can get in your own room - thats the only indicator of whether someones doing things right or wrong.

Its only after someone listens to it can they have any opinion on whether you have wasted your money - you cant say that before. He will disagree but you cant. I bet noone would listen to mine and say I have wasted my money. I am confident of that at least

Try a test. Remove all the mains foo and compare.

Easier said than done Trev C - its a more complex system than most all setup in a certain way with no space to do stuff like that. It would take hours to do it then put it back, its not worth to me

Especially as I only added more mains products recently and my system sound Much better after so I am not worried about it all.

 

[shadders]

That does make logical very good sense to buy it when you put it like that.

But am I going to sell mine and buy that - I would rather eat leather mate to be honest. Never going to happen

Why is it worth it - because my system sounds as it does with it in to me - so to me thats good enough for me. Value doesnt come into it Shadders. It costs what it costs that is my take on it for everything

Hi,

I know - it was just to explain what the actual material costs are.

You are confident in your system with the cables of choice. Why not try a blind test with cheap and expensive cables etc. If cables do have a good resale value, then any disappointment can be mitigated.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Vladimir]

 

[ellisdj]

Russ Andrews Spring Promotion Ends tomorrow.

Still time to get in there Andrew, TrevC and Shadders - good deals to be had for you like

15% off the speaker Zapperators - I know you will like them Shadders

 

[kukulec]

Okay, so this is the answer from Cambridge Audio: "We would not suggest that changing the power cable would make a difference to the audio quality that you will get and would also not be able to recommend doing this."

 

[ellisdj]

How did you ask them the question?

 

[Vladimir]

How did you ask them the question?

Dumb CA engineers, probably didn't watch the whole video and missed the graphs.

 

[ellisdj]

Just out of curiosity

 

[kukulec]

Me: "I would like to ask if changing power cable makes any difference. If yes, could you please advise which one could enhance the sound in a proportionally fair price range?" (I know speaker cables sound different, and I am sure, that on higher quality setups power cable too. However, if they say I would not experience lot of changes, I will not focus on that question again, until I buy the Elac 249.3)

 

[Vladimir]

Here's what Bill Baily has to say on Death Metal.

 

[lindsayt]

Yes I would you are 100% right - but only because half the time what I am hearing reminds me of how mine was before I did A /B /C etc so i feel like it could be improved. It would be made more how I have become accustomed to hearing it / how I like it though. That is natural I think, cant stop that.

That doesnt mean one cant appreciate something different - I can appreciate it all and really enjoy listening to other systems. Its the best thing (sometimes worst) you can do in this hobby I think.

So, what if a system had captive power cables and poor speaker terminals into which only thin wire could be fitted. IE the system components pretty much excluded experimenting with cables.

How would you feel then?

Would you want to start doing Tututle modifications where you'd cut away the power leads and fit IEC sockets and where you'd delve into the speaker cabinets to fit different terminals?

Or would you feel that the system was better left original and enjoyed for what it was, poor terminals and all?

BTW davidf's guidelines on focusing on system matching and set-up when working to a budget and investigating cables / condioners etc when the system is maxed-out component-wise makes a lot of sense.

 

[Gaz37]

There are plenty of logical reasons for power cables being unable to have an effect on sound quality.

There are two main reasons why people think they do work.
If you can't hear an improvement-
Your equipment is too crap
Your hearing is too crap

 

[ellisdj]

There are plenty of logical reasons for power cables being unable to have an effect on sound quality.

There are two main reasons why people think they do work. If you can't hear an improvement- Your equipment is too crap Your hearing is too crap

Or you have tried the wrong one is another one.

Noones hearing is too crap, noone thinks that I dont think. My pal has terrible hearing but he has picked out things in my system that are bang on when he has been over to demo as I have been improving things over the last few years. Like having fat on my bass for example and he was right. He reads this and will laugh at that one because he thought he really offended me when he said it.

To Lindsey - I have not been in the game that long to see products like that mate so I have no idea. If they sounded great as is thats fine

 

[shadders]

Russ Andrews Spring Promotion Ends tomorrow.

Still time to get in there Andrew, TrevC and Shadders - good deals to be had for you like

15% off the speaker Zapperators - I know you will like them Shadders

Hi,

Yes - i responded to a thread about 7 or 8 years ago but this was regarding another manufacturer of the same type of device.

The other manufacturer stated that the RF noise entering the feedback circuit on the amplifier was the cause of many issues and their device stopped the RF.

In an amplifier you have an inductor and resistor in parallel - this reduces any RF, such that the power of the RF from a mobile phone or wifi right next to the amplifier is still below the thermal noise floor of the feedback circuit.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[ellisdj]

Using them at the speaker end will remove the effects of the speaker cable antenna you told me about probably 10 pages ago.

 

[Vladimir]

Using them at the speaker end will remove the effects of the speaker cable antenna you told me about probably 10 pages ago.

I heard they also remove ghost ectoplasm residue.

 

[ellisdj]

Get them quick then before they add 15% on