Power amps with exceptional clarity??

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Jasonovich

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Not me.
Even if I found the money in the street I couldn't bring myself to pay such a price.
I think there's a threshold, where you get to a point where deminishing returns kick in. To illustrate, hypothetically, say your dream amp cannot be improved further because the finest components on the planet have been implemented: the very best technology is in the DNA and has been constructed by the finest craftsman. All this will cost you, £20k, this includes development, marketing and profit.
Anything more in terms of costs, will be hot air and manufacturers greed.
Some people will buy because they trust the brand.
 

Dom

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As far as I can figure out (Which isn't a lot lets face it) its more about construction and development time rather than component quality, these esoteric machines have had every facet scrutinised for sound quality.

If its just about component quality then there's a point where it wont make any difference to the listener and diminishing returns apply.
 

Gray

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I think there's a threshold, where you get to a point where deminishing returns kick in. To illustrate, hypothetically, say your dream amp cannot be improved further because the finest components on the planet have been implemented: the very best technology is in the DNA and has been constructed by the finest craftsman. All this will cost you, £20k, this includes development, marketing and profit.
Anything more in terms of costs, will be hot air and manufacturers greed.
Some people will buy because they trust the brand.
My 'problem' Jason is more of an asset;
I honestly never dream about luxury products.
(I'm the opposite of the 'keep up with the Joneses' type).
 

Jasonovich

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My 'problem' Jason is more of an asset;
I honestly never dream about luxury products.
(I'm the opposite of the 'keep up with the Joneses' type).
I have absolutely no idea what the Joneses are doing. Perish the thought, who really talks to their neighbour?
Hi Simon, how was your Christmas? Bye! :)

In terms of life balances, I think for most people they want to have a healthy and meaningful existence and for the impoverished, they just want food and a roof over their head and you're right Gray, assets shouldn't be the impetus that governs your soul.

HiFi is a wonderful invention and I spend way too much of my time and money on it, but it's a small vice and a nice escapism.
 
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Jasonovich

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Oxfordian

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My 'problem' Jason is more of an asset;
I honestly never dream about luxury products.
(I'm the opposite of the 'keep up with the Joneses' type).
I have no issue in dreaming of owning a luxury item, whether it is a car or house or something else, I see no reason why I shouldn't aspire to own something nice if the money became available.

Equally I can understand others have a different view which is fine as long as people are happy that is all that matters..
 
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Gray

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I have no issue in dreaming of owning a luxury item, whether it is a car or house or something else, I see no reason why I shouldn't aspire to own something nice if the money became available.

Equally I can understand others have a different view which is fine as long as people are happy that is all that matters..
Don't get me wrong, not only do I aspire to quality, I expect it.
But, I will never knowingly buy anything that is overpriced.
The obvious question then is, how would I define overpriced?
Well, call me old fashioned, but I think that's an easy judgement to make - and one that most of those on this particular forum find easy to make (even when they can afford the overpriced item). (y)

On another forum (described as 'elitist' by a member of this one) it's clear that products are often judged solely by price - things need to be expensive to be considered in any way worthy 🤨.
 
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podknocker

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Apologies for bringing politics to this forum, but I still stand by my earlier comments. There are some miserable sods on here and it's incredible that some people take offence, because I say an overpriced, elitist Linn system name sounds like a vibrator. GROW UP! Seriously, GROW UP! There are worse things to get annoyed about.

We were asked to discuss this Linn amplifier and decide if it has 'exceptional clarity'. The thing is, nobody on this site can afford them, so we'll never know. These companies release unattainable, aspirational products, knowing 99% of the population can't afford these things, so how can we decide if it's worth £100k?

These devices are just a statement of elitism and snobbery and does anyone seriously think their music collection needs a £100k of amplification? Nonsense.

All this 'it's good for the economy' is more nonsense. If they were a quarter of the price, they would sell more and the workforce and its taxation would return 10 times more money into the coffers. Does anyone really believe there are thousands of customers out there willing to drop £100k on some overpriced HIFI?

Incredible.
 
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DiggyGun

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Apologies for bringing politics to this forum, but I still stand by my earlier comments. There are some miserable sods on here and it's incredible that some people take offence, because I say an overpriced, elitist Linn system name sounds like a vibrator. GROW UP! Seriously, GROW UP! There are worse things to get annoyed about.

We were asked to discuss this Linn amplifier and decide if it has 'exceptional clarity'. The thing is, nobody on this site can afford them, so we'll never know. These companies release unattainable, aspirational products, knowing 99% of the population can't afford these things, so how can we decide if it's worth £100k?

These devices are just a statement of elitism and snobbery and does anyone seriously think their music collection needs a £100k of amplification? Nonsense.
You’re back, but not improved.

I'm now a “miserable sod and need to grow up”.

I accept that you’re not keen on the product, but why the need to rubbish other people that have a different perspective.

You really need to try and understand the bigger picture with regard to pieces of kit like this and future potential and innovation into other products.

Personally, I respect your opinion on the product but not your approach that you correct and others are wrong for having a a differing review.

I am happy for you to keep posting as it is a public forum, likewise I’m happy to keep posting with my thoughts on the product as previously advised.

With regard to the prices, yes, they are top end but they will sell and owners will enjoy them. Money will then keep Linn investing in more products, both high end and affordable products, keeping employees in work, suppliers in business, etc.

I'm looking forward to a demo of these, just to hear them. Will I buy them, probably not, but then those who do have my full support. Might even see you at a demo and we can buy each other a coffee, but sorry I don’t drink alcohol.

DG…
 

podknocker

Well-known member
You’re back, but not improved.

I'm now a “miserable sod and need to grow up”.

I accept that you’re not keen on the product, but why the need to rubbish other people that have a different perspective.

You really need to try and understand the bigger picture with regard to pieces of kit like this and future potential and innovation into other products.

Personally, I respect your opinion on the product but not your approach that you correct and others are wrong for having a a differing review.

I am happy for you to keep posting as it is a public forum, likewise I’m happy to keep posting with my thoughts on the product as previously advised.

With regard to the prices, yes, they are top end but they will sell and owners will enjoy them. Money will then keep Linn investing in more products, both high end and affordable products, keeping employees in work, suppliers in business, etc.

I'm looking forward to a demo of these, just to hear them. Will I buy them, probably not, but then those who do have my full support. Might even see you at a demo and we can buy each other a coffee, but sorry I don’t drink alcohol.

DG…
I never drink alcohol within 24 hours of ranting on this forum, because I would be banned. You are in a microscopic minority thinking anyone would pay £100k for HIFI amplification. Even millionaires would regard shelter, food, clothing and security more important than dropping a Doctor's salary on some overpriced metal and circuit boards. It's obscene and immoral to think this technology warrants such a ludicrous amount of money. I won't get political again, but do you realise £100k of HIFI is enough to buy some people a home to live in? I think a reality check is required for some people out there.
 
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Oxfordian

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Apologies for bringing politics to this forum, but I still stand by my earlier comments. There are some miserable sods on here and it's incredible that some people take offence, because I say an overpriced, elitist Linn system sounds like a vibrator. GROW UP! Seriously, GROW UP! There are worse things to get annoyed about.
How is Linn elitist, it’s a company that has been around for 50+ years now there are many many people whose first TT was a LP12 back in the 70’s how is a Company that has provided so much enjoyment to so many over the years elitist?

I accept that their products are expensive, their latest product launch a cracking example of an expensive bit of kit, but the products are UK developed, in the majority of cases, UK built, so operating costs are considerably higher than products that come in from Asia but that shouldn’t and doesn’t make them elitist, but it will make them more expensive than the competition from the far east.

There is no doubt that buying any product from Linn is going to put a dent in most people’s savings but that doesn’t make them elitist, it just means that they have a target market and price their products accordingly, sometimes that means that what they sell is outside our budget.

But elitist? Can you show me another Company that has provided constant upgradability for one of their products that was bought in the 70’s?

For me when I am going to invest money into consumer products, in this case a new TT, then later in the year amplification, I’ll do my research first, Linn because of the fact that they are well established will get consideration, along with other UK companies that provide proper customer support not just for the warranty period but for many years after.

Its not just about the initial price that I pay but what you get for your money and I don’t just mean features, I want longevity and reliability in my products I want to know that if I need a service or a repair then the company is there to do that work.

By all means have a dislike for Linn and its products, that is absolutely fine, we can’t all like everything in the HiFi market, having a contrary position on something is useful as it can stimulate debate, this is done by expressing a negative view in a positive way.

Oh and just for the record, Linn products are far from elitist and are a long way from sounding like a vibrator, they are just not for you and that is just fine
 

podknocker

Well-known member
How is Linn elitist, it’s a company that has been around for 50+ years now there are many many people whose first TT was a LP12 back in the 70’s how is a Company that has provided so much enjoyment to so many over the years elitist?

I accept that their products are expensive, their latest product launch a cracking example of an expensive bit of kit, but the products are UK developed, in the majority of cases, UK built, so operating costs are considerably higher than products that come in from Asia but that shouldn’t and doesn’t make them elitist, but it will make them more expensive than the competition from the far east.

There is no doubt that buying any product from Linn is going to put a dent in most people’s savings but that doesn’t make them elitist, it just means that they have a target market and price their products accordingly, sometimes that means that what they sell is outside our budget.

But elitist? Can you show me another Company that has provided constant upgradability for one of their products that was bought in the 70’s?

For me when I am going to invest money into consumer products, in this case a new TT, then later in the year amplification, I’ll do my research first, Linn because of the fact that they are well established will get consideration, along with other UK companies that provide proper customer support not just for the warranty period but for many years after.

Its not just about the initial price that I pay but what you get for your money and I don’t just mean features, I want longevity and reliability in my products I want to know that if I need a service or a repair then the company is there to do that work.

By all means have a dislike for Linn and its products, that is absolutely fine, we can’t all like everything in the HiFi market, having a contrary position on something is useful as it can stimulate debate, this is done by expressing a negative view in a positive way.

Oh and just for the record, Linn products are far from elitist and are a long way from sounding like a vibrator, they are just not for you and that is just fine
Linn Sondek LP12-50 costing £50k not elitist?

FIFTY THOUSAND UK POUNDS TO PLAY AN INFERIOR MUSIC FORMAT RELEASED IN THE 40'S?

I'm literally shaking my head as I type this.

Linn and Naim et al, have acheived cult status and the amount of brand worshipping and cultural brainwashing is astounding.
 
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Oxfordian

Well-known member
You’re back, but not improved.

I'm now a “miserable sod and need to grow up”.

I accept that you’re not keen on the product, but why the need to rubbish other people that have a different perspective.

You really need to try and understand the bigger picture with regard to pieces of kit like this and future potential and innovation into other products.

Personally, I respect your opinion on the product but not your approach that you correct and others are wrong for having a a differing review.

I am happy for you to keep posting as it is a public forum, likewise I’m happy to keep posting with my thoughts on the product as previously advised.

With regard to the prices, yes, they are top end but they will sell and owners will enjoy them. Money will then keep Linn investing in more products, both high end and affordable products, keeping employees in work, suppliers in business, etc.

I'm looking forward to a demo of these, just to hear them. Will I buy them, probably not, but then those who do have my full support. Might even see you at a demo and we can buy each other a coffee, but sorry I don’t drink alcohol.

DG…
I would guess that Linn won’t be expecting to sell these in large numbers, but if you have a Klimax based system then you are going to be interested.
 

Oxfordian

Well-known member
Linn Sondek LP12-50 costing £50k not elitist?

FIFTY THOUSAND UK POUNDS TO PLAY AN INFERIOR MUSIC FORMAT RELEASED IN THE 40'S?

I'm literally shaking my head as I type this.
No it’s not elitist, it may not be for you but it doesn’t make it elitist.

There are people out there who prefer to listen to vinyl over other formats and that is their choice and it is just fine.

The fact that it is not your preferred method of listening to music is also fine, the HiFi world is plenty big enough to accommodate everyone’s preferences.

I think that the whole forum knows that you have moved on from vinyl and that you cannot comprehend why others have not done so as well.

Just for the record (excuse the pun) but there are vinyl systems out there costing well into 6 figures, some are 5 or 6 times the cost of the LP12-50, so in some respects the Linn is actually cheap.
 

podknocker

Well-known member
No it’s not elitist, it may not be for you but it doesn’t make it elitist.

There are people out there who prefer to listen to vinyl over other formats and that is their choice and it is just fine.

The fact that it is not your preferred method of listening to music is also fine, the HiFi world is plenty big enough to accommodate everyone’s preferences.

I think that the whole forum knows that you have moved on from vinyl and that you cannot comprehend why others have not done so as well.

Just for the record (excuse the pun) but there are vinyl systems out there costing well into 6 figures, some are 5 or 6 times the cost of the LP12-50, so in some respects the Linn is actually cheap.
LOL. Six figure turntables exist because some people are stupid enough to buy them. If Elon Musk was obsessed with LP records, I'm sure Linn would release an Elon TT costing a million pounds to satisfy his ego. Nonsense. Do the materials and production methods actually cost 6 figures, with profit margins accounted for? Elitist products exist because some people have an excess of wealth. This isn't capitalism and the free market, it's exclusivity and elitism.
 
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DiggyGun

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LOL. Six figure turntables exist because some people are stupid enough to buy them. If Elon Musk was obsesed with LP records, I'm sure Linn would release an Elon TT costing a million pounds to satisfy his ego. Nonsense.
Still cannot understand why you are ranting and calling people stupid for be able to or want to spend this money.

As you obviously dislike Linn so much, why bother with this thread and get yourself so wound up.

Esoteric Hi-Fi has been around a while so unlikely to go away.

DG…
 
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Oxfordian

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LOL. Six figure turntables exist because some people are stupid enough to buy them. If Elon Musk was obsesed with LP records, I'm sure Linn would release an Elon TT costing a million pounds to satisfy his ego. Nonsense. Do the materials and production methods actually cost 6 figures, with profit margins accounted for? Elitist products exist because some people have an excess of wealth. This isn't capitalism and the free market, it's exclusivity and elitism.
No they‘re not stupid, they have sufficient funds to allow them to buy these products to enjoy their hobby, that is fine.

How people decide to spend whatever money they have is entirely their decision, it’s not not for me to judge what they do or make derogatory comments about how they spend their money.

Many people work hard for their money, if they choose to spend it on expensive products that is no concern of anyone’s, least of all your’s or mine.
 

podknocker

Well-known member
Still cannot understand why you are ranting and calling people stupid for be able to or want to spend this money.

As you obviously dislike Linn so much, why bother with this thread and get yourself so wound up.

Esoteric Hi-Fi has been around a while so unlikely to go away.

DG…
I don't dislike Linn, I dislike people who try to justify a record player is worth £50k. Value and worth are subjective, as some people can afford anything, like Elon Musk. Where does this stop? If Linn released a TT called the Linn Elon LP12 and it cost a BILLION pounds, because Elon could afford to buy 50 of them, would you still suggest it's worth this amount? I think some people think anything is worth any amount, to anyone, because someone can afford it. It's absolutely crackers. Would you buy a Linn turntable costing a BILLION pounds, because you had 250 BILLION pounds to spend? Reality check required I think. Again, most people will never see this amount of wealth and anyone sensible would regard overpriced HIFI as elitist decadence and believe me, I'm not a communist and do think a free market is the best economic model available. If I was Elon Musk and had almost infinite wealth, why would I pay so much for something so insignificant as a record player? I honestly can't relate to the idea that HIFI can be worth this amount to anyone. It's a gadget, a toy and cannot be the most important thing to aspire to own. You will find 99% of the sound quality, for a much smaller amount. You cannot acheive infinite sound quality by spending an infinite amount of money. The laws of physics prevent this. Material science has limits and eventually, you run out of more sound quality. Spending a gazillion pounds won't get you any further.
 
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DougK1

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I have to agree with Pod, all this mega-expensive kit is just ridiculous. It is only for the elite class not your average Joe Bloggs, therefore, is it not elitist if it is aimed purely at the elite class?
 

DiggyGun

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I have to agree with Pod, all this mega-expensive kit is just ridiculous. It is only for the elite class not your average Joe Bloggs, therefore, is it not elitist if it is aimed purely at the elite class?
Agreed. But then there are people than can afford it and good for them.

One of the benefits from that is the innovation and technology trickling down into their more affordable products.

Naim did the same with their Statement Amps. Mega expensive, but you’re now seeing this technology in their newer and cheaper products.

It’s similar to cars, some people can afford Volkswagen, some can only afford a Trabbant and some can afford a Bentley.

There is something for everyone at all price breaks. Just because some people can afford top end, doesn’t make them stupid or elitist. It’s just the spread of life as is there has always been.

So why rant and insult the companies that make these products, the dealers that sell them and the people that buy them.

I can’t afford a Bentley or the Klimax Solo 800, but some people can and good luck to them and, hope that they enjoy it. Because I certainly enjoy my Hi-Fi and I would certainly like to hear these amps.

DG…
 
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