PMC Fact 12, outrageously expensive, yes, worth it YES!

[SteveR750]

How do they compare to the IB2's Jaxxwired? Can those smaller drivers move as much air as the IB2?

These do not have quite the visceral impact of the massive bass of the IB2s, but this speakers still goes deep and has substantial bass.  The sound has superb weight to the low end, but this speaker has more speed than the IB2.  This speaker is more balanced.  This is the better speaker IMO and it looks way better.  

Mmm visceral bass.

 

[Gazzip]

How do they compare to the IB2's Jaxxwired? Can those smaller drivers move as much air as the IB2?

These do not have quite the visceral impact of the massive bass of the IB2s, but this speakers still goes deep and has substantial bass. The sound has superb weight to the low end, but this speaker has more speed than the IB2. This speaker is more balanced. This is the better speaker IMO and it looks way better.

I agree although I would go further to say that the Fact 12 also wipes the floor with the MB2. I demoed them both in the same session and any bloatiness associated with the larger speaker was not present in the 12's. I think the BB5's probably have the edge over the 12's in PMC's domestic range but only just, and at £25K vs £12K I know which I would buy if I had my time over again. However some will want to pay the extra to get that little bit more of everything that the BB5's give.

Bring on the Fact 16? 20? 24? PMC!!!!!

 

[Kubs]

Nice work jaxwired ... Its a great feeling ... Just when you think it can't get any better ... A small (or large in your case) upgrade can enhance the listening experience

 

[Electro]

Congratulations Jaxwired you have a dream system !

I think the fact 12's might be an itch I will need to scratch in future, but only if I can find a pair ex demo or second hand for a very much reduced price , from your description I can almost hear them on the end of my Electro's *i-m_so_happy* I will bide my time *smile* .

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Only a passing interest - why so expensive? Apparently no exotics on show? Glad youre pleased with the beasts

 

[Jota180]

Good job.....I think your current system might just "stay the pace" for quite a while to come.

Enjoy.

Really ... ?

Definitely!.....Probably!.....Possibly!.....Maybe not!

I'm the first to admit I've done a lot of gear swapping, and in the past I've always said no matter how much I love my latest acquisition, it may get replaced. Not this time. Check back in 3 years. I guarantee I will still be listening to these speakers. I've never before owned a pair of speakers that so clearly exceeded all previous comers. These leave zero doubt in my mind that no more can be achieved. They are truly state of the art IMO.

Please don't make the mistake of believing that zero doubt in your mind equates to either fact or reality. If that was the case PMC would cease all R&D and just make these speakers for all eternity. I suspect that wont be happening and indeed, an improved version will be along before too long (in speaker development lifespans)!

 

[Gazzip]

Only a passing interest - why so expensive? Apparently no exotics on show? Glad youre pleased with the beasts

R&D. They are a new concept for PMC, there is a brand new 50mm domed mid driver driver developed and produced specifically for this product, they are using a new aluminium LF driver, AND they were designed in collaboration with boffins from the National Physics Laboratory in their acoustic labs.

Agreed that they don't have carbon fibre, leather and titanium all over them, but there is quite a bit of thought gone in to them instead of just a lot of bling and nonsense.

 

[steve_1979]

Only a passing interest - why so expensive?

There was a very extensive amount of R&D involved with these - Clicky

 

[RobinKidderminster]

So r&d is responsible for £10k+ price tag. I wonder if their budget exceeds KEF or others. And if its all down to drivers then are they that much better than others? And can they not be copied? I am happy to accept the explaination - R&D.

 

[jaxwired]

Only a passing interest - why so expensive? Apparently no exotics on show?

Its a good question. I'm no marketing guru, but if I was the owner of PMC Id be wanting maximize profit. Armed with the information that I have a clearly special product that many believe to be state of the art Id be considering pricing that would maximize profit against expenses. If I could sell them for $4k and maximize profit, that's what'd Id do. I suspect that the people that run PMC think that the $12k price will maximize profit. It's not an exact science, they could be wrong.

Or there's the possibility that the owners of PMC don't care about profit and pricing the fact 12s based on other considerations like maybe an attempt to let the market know their feelings about the superiority of this product. But I doubt it, most likely its intended to get max profit.

Pricing is a complicated art. There a many considerations. PMC may well be intentionally sacrificing sales of the fact 12 to boost sales of their other products. For instance, the twenty 26 while also being quite expensive looks like a positive steal next to the fact 12.

 

[Gazzip]

So r&d is responsible for £10k+ price tag. I wonder if their budget exceeds KEF or others. And if its all down to drivers then are they that much better than others? And can they not be copied? I am happy to accept the explaination - R&D.

The retailer's mark up is fairly sizeable at 40-50%-ish. You have to factor that in to your assessment of the retail price tag.....

 

[Womaz]

It's great that you have speakers that you love at a price you can afford.

Chris

Thank you Chris. I feel very very lucky that I can indeed afford these. I've worked very hard in my career the last 25 years with few breaks. Luck and hard work have put me in a good place at this point at least.

Also, I recevied a very favorable price...

The photos are stunning, it looks absolutely awesome. Great to reward yourself and I would love to have 10 minutes in that room never mind all the time you will enjoy in it. Amazing!

 

[Gazzip]

Hi Jax, now that you have had the 12's for a couple of days how do you think they compare with the IB2i's they have replaced? How are you finding the bass? What about that 50mm domed mid range driver? As good as the 75mm version? Overall on a scale from 1 to 10 where would you put the 12's and where would you put the IB2's?

 

[RobM]

Hi Jaxwired,

Congratulations on your new acquisition! I suspected it would only be a matter of time before you moved up from the 8's to the 12's, and wasn't surprised to see this post, stating as much.

Having been a Fact 8 owner myself before acquiring the Fact 12's I can totally appreciate what your going through, and that puts a smile on my face! After owning the 12's for over fifteen months now, I'm still happy with the sound they produce, and I suspect you will be too! Enjoy!

All the best, Rob

 

[jaxwired]

Hi Jax, now that you have had the 12's for a couple of days how do you think they compare with the IB2i's they have replaced? How are you finding the bass? What about that 50mm domed mid range driver? As good as the 75mm version? Overall on a scale from 1 to 10 where would you put the 12's and where would you put the IB2's?

The IB2s are superb speakers. They have more powerful bass than the Fact 12s, but the gap between the two is surprisingly small given the differences in driver and cabinet size. The IB2s are also a very transparent and detailed speaker, but in this area the Fact 12 is the one that nudges ahead. As great as the IB2s are at providing a clean window to the music, the Fact 12s are even better. I've heard other speakers that have exceptional clarity before like for instance the Usher Mini Dancer 2 which I owned for a while, but those other speakers sacrificed a natural sound to provide that extreme transparency. The fact 12s do not sacrifice naturalness. They sound explicit and supremely detailed, but they do this while sounding natural. Everything sounds real, rather than exaggerated in some way. The fact 12 is the kind of speaker that will have you whipping your head around to see what just made that sound in your home only to find it was part of the recording you're playing. The IB2s are excellent and I would give them a 9 out of 10 with the one fault being they will over pressurize anything but a generous listening space due to their outstanding bass reproduction. Not that they exaggerate bass, they dont, but when bass is in the recording they can overwhelm the listening space. The IB2s are are also far less attractive in the home environent. On a scale of 1 to 10 the fact 12 is a 10 by my yard stick. Maybe someday I will find a speaker that betters the fact 12 and I will have to demote it to a 9.5, but for me right now, it's a 10 and most speakers I've owned aren't close. Like I said earlier, check back in 3 years and you will find me still listening to them, guaranteed.

BTW, posted more pics of my system in the "your system" section for anyone interested.

 

[jaxwired]

Hi Jaxwired,

Congratulations on your new acquisition! I suspected it would only be a matter of time before you moved up from the 8's to the 12's, and wasn't surprised to see this post, stating as much.

Having been a Fact 8 owner myself before acquiring the Fact 12's I can totally appreciate what your going through, and that puts a smile on my face! After owning the 12's for over fifteen months now, I'm still happy with the sound they produce, and I suspect you will be too! Enjoy!

All the best, Rob

Cheers Rob. : )

 

[Gazzip]

Yes! Yes! Yes! I am beside myself with excitement.

 

[jaxwired]

Good job.....I think your current system might just "stay the pace" for quite a while to come.

Enjoy.

Really ... ?

Definitely!.....Probably!.....Possibly!.....Maybe not!

I'm the first to admit I've done a lot of gear swapping, and in the past I've always said no matter how much I love my latest acquisition, it may get replaced. Not this time. Check back in 3 years. I guarantee I will still be listening to these speakers. I've never before owned a pair of speakers that so clearly exceeded all previous comers. These leave zero doubt in my mind that no more can be achieved. They are truly state of the art IMO.

Still in love with my fact 12s.... : )

 

[Macspur]

Good job.....I think your current system might just "stay the pace" for quite a while to come.

Enjoy.

Really ... ?

Definitely!.....Probably!.....Possibly!.....Maybe not!

I'm the first to admit I've done a lot of gear swapping, and in the past I've always said no matter how much I love my latest acquisition, it may get replaced. Not this time. Check back in 3 years. I guarantee I will still be listening to these speakers. I've never before owned a pair of speakers that so clearly exceeded all previous comers. These leave zero doubt in my mind that no more can be achieved. They are truly state of the art IMO.

Still in love with my fact 12s.... : )

Just for a moment there I thought you'd found another!

Glad you're still enjoying them Jax.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[SteveR750]

Yes! Yes! Yes! I am beside myself with excitement.

You've had enough time, so??

 

[bluedroog]

Is this a record for you? Have you chnaged anything upstream, or is that a silly question!? I'll have to have a look if you've posted any more Youtube vids, always enjoy yours, my wife think I'm weird.

 

[jaxwired]

Is this a record for you? Have you chnaged anything upstream, or is that a silly question!?

I guess it is. : )

Nope, no changes in electronics. Still using Devialet d400 for all in one enjoyment. I did replace my music computer with an Aurender music server. But no other changes. Still convinced that for what I want from hifi I cannot improve on this system. And some may think "I should hope not given the expense", but I've heard expensive gear that didn't thrill me plenty of times.

 

[bluedroog]

I was just looking at the Devialet 'SAM' speaker list, no Fact 12's that I could see yet but they do have the Fact 8s, wondering if that might be an avanue for you? Sorry! *biggrin*

Bet your system sounds stunning, enjoy!