Pioneer n50a or alternative

[muljao]

I have only discovered how to stream lately, with sptify, dnla and flac being completely alien to me just a few months ago. I have figured out enough to make my listening experience enjoyable and simple, mostly using my laptop through a DAC or between it and either my Monitor Audio A100 (dnla) or through BubbleUPNP and a chromecasr for my other room. It has made me want to buy a do-it-all streamer, but I don't want to spend huge money, about 400 pounds sound about right.

The Pioneer n50a seems to have 99% of the spec that i want. The only downside I can see is wireless connectivity which seems to be available through Pioneers adapter which are more rare than gold online, and from previous price indications are ridiculously overpriced. I have not seen the Pioneer app so not sure how good it is.I watched a video on a Raunfeld Connector yesterday, and that app looks pretty good, and the unit itself is not bad looking either, but the Pioneer has the inputs/outputs I want.

Is anyone using the Pioneer n50a, and if so how do you rate it and it's app? I will likely have to bite the bullet if i go this route and run an ethernet cable to where I use it, probably this would be better for quality in the long run anyway, so it's not as much of a downside.

Are there any other streamers that are of similar spec at this price range that maybe I am overlooking?

Thanks

 

[jonathanRD]

I have only discovered how to stream lately, with sptify, dnla and flac being completely alien to me just a few months ago. I have figured out enough to make my listening experience enjoyable and simple, mostly using my laptop through a DAC or between it and either my Monitor Audio A100 (dnla) or through BubbleUPNP and a chromecasr for my other room. It has made me want to buy a do-it-all streamer, but I don't want to spend huge money, about 400 pounds sound about right.

The Pioneer n50a seems to have 99% of the spec that i want. The only downside I can see is wireless connectivity which seems to be available through Pioneers adapter which are more rare than gold online, and from previous price indications are ridiculously overpriced. I have not seen the Pioneer app so not sure how good it is.I watched a video on a Raunfeld Connector yesterday, and that app looks pretty good, and the unit itself is not bad looking either, but the Pioneer has the inputs/outputs I want.

Is anyone using the Pioneer n50a, and if so how do you rate it and it's app? I will likely have to bite the bullet if i go this route and run an ethernet cable to where I use it, probably this would be better for quality in the long run anyway, so it's not as much of a downside.

Are there any other streamers that are of similar spec at this price range that maybe I am overlooking?

Thanks

Take a look at the Yamaha WXC-50, see if it ticks all your boxes.

 

[luckylion100]

owned the original Pioneer N-50

Bad points were; terrible product support from Pioneer. Firmware updates for obvious short comings ceased early doors (I suppose whilst they focused on the new version). Total lack of support for any online streaming service (Obviously not the case with the N-50A) the Pioneer App was an almost unusable disaster and was never updated into anything remotely user friendly during my ownnership of the product. Remote, awful again, way too many needless buttons, jumbled and unusable in a darkened room. The need to purchase a wifi network adapter I felt was a masssive oversight and almost p*ss take out of owners. A network player that is unable (out of the box) to connect to your wifi connection! I had my hard wired to my NAS so got around it that way.

Sound and general build I was very happy with but an array of short comings killed it for me. Pioneer never again for me, was glad to get shot!

Obviously from what I've read the 50-A looks like a quality product but seriously check the control app out first!

My recommendation without a doubt, Yamaha WXC50, a lovely superb sounding bit of kit, great connections, some not all streaming services supported, DSD sounds fantastic (whatever anyone else states) I'm taking a stubborn cable advocate/lover's type stance on this one! MusicCast App a joy to use.

BTW, third attempt at composing this message before the site wiped it from my screen. This forum's software is pitiful.

 

[muljao]

I have only discovered how to stream lately, with sptify, dnla and flac being completely alien to me just a few months ago. I have figured out enough to make my listening experience enjoyable and simple, mostly using my laptop through a DAC or between it and either my Monitor Audio A100 (dnla) or through BubbleUPNP and a chromecasr for my other room. It has made me want to buy a do-it-all streamer, but I don't want to spend huge money, about 400 pounds sound about right.

The Pioneer n50a seems to have 99% of the spec that i want. The only downside I can see is wireless connectivity which seems to be available through Pioneers adapter which are more rare than gold online, and from previous price indications are ridiculously overpriced. I have not seen the Pioneer app so not sure how good it is.I watched a video on a Raunfeld Connector yesterday, and that app looks pretty good, and the unit itself is not bad looking either, but the Pioneer has the inputs/outputs I want.

Is anyone using the Pioneer n50a, and if so how do you rate it and it's app? I will likely have to bite the bullet if i go this route and run an ethernet cable to where I use it, probably this would be better for quality in the long run anyway, so it's not as much of a downside.

Are there any other streamers that are of similar spec at this price range that maybe I am overlooking?

Thanks

Take a look at the Yamaha WXC-50, see if it ticks all your boxes.

Thanks for the link. It looks like a fab bit of kit. The Pioneer though has co-axial in and ability to take over the sound card of a pc through usb. These functions are probably not vital, but I'd really like them in a set up, so I'm still leaning towards the Pioneer

 

[muljao]

owned the original Pioneer N-50

Bad points were; terrible product support from Pioneer. Firmware updates for obvious short comings ceased early doors (I suppose whilst they focused on the new version). Total lack of support for any online streaming service (Obviously not the case with the N-50A) the Pioneer App was an almost unusable disaster and was never updated into anything remotely user friendly during my ownnership of the product. Remote, awful again, way too many needless buttons, jumbled and unusable in a darkened room. The need to purchase a wifi network adapter I felt was a masssive oversight and almost p*ss take out of owners. A network player that is unable (out of the box) to connect to your wifi connection! I had my hard wired to my NAS so got around it that way.

Sound and general build I was very happy with but an array of short comings killed it for me. Pioneer never again for me, was glad to get shot!

Obviously from what I've read the 50-A looks like a quality product but seriously check the control app out first!

My recommendation without a doubt, Yamaha WXC50, a lovely superb sounding bit of kit, great connections, some not all streaming services supported, DSD sounds fantastic (whatever anyone else states) I'm taking a stubborn cable advocate/lover's type stance on this one! MusicCast App a joy to use.

BTW, third attempt at composing this message before the site wiped it from my screen. This forum's software is pitiful.

Thanks for typing it 3 times, this site does that to me to and it's frustrating, so I appreciate it.

I will certainly check out the app first. To be honest, this would be a fairly big purchase for me, as it does not do anything I can't do already, but it does it streamlined in one place so to speak. I will do plenty of research on the pioneers app, and other recommendations. You have put a few doubts there for me, buyt that is no harm either, as I wont go buy it on a whim,

Thanks again

 

[Waxy]

I bought a CA stream Magic v2 for £400 from Richer Sounds. This ticks all your boxes, and while it doesn't have a colour screen, the CA Connect app works well on my iPad, and it has received regular firmware updates.

Onkyo have also just released a couple of new streamers http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/network-audio-player-132973.html

 

[luckylion100]

glad to offer some 'questionable' advice. ;-)

One other thing the firmware updates on the original version were also done by downloading from pc/laptop and then adding to usb stick that then went into usb socket on front panel of N-50. I'm sure most of the things I've mentioned have been addressed in the new model. Longer term product support and Pioneer app, something to consider though...

Enjoy the research and I'm sure when it comes to buying, you'll have maded the right choice for you. ;-)

 

[ellisdj]

My pal fellow forum member has one good sound quality especially for the money but the pioneer app is atrocious.

However linking a pc to the pioneer as a sound card could be a game changer for him - how do you know you can do that??

Thanks

 

[muljao]

I bought a CA stream Magic v2 for £400 from Richer Sounds. This ticks all your boxes, and while it doesn't have a colour screen, the CA Connect app works well on my iPad, and it has received regular firmware updates.

Onkyo have also just released a couple of new streamers http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/network-audio-player-132973.html

Thanks, another great looking unit that I didn't even know existed

 

[muljao]

My pal fellow forum member has one good sound quality especially for the money but the pioneer app is atrocious.

However linking a pc to the pioneer as a sound card could be a game changer for him - how do you know you can do that??

Thanks

I have linked the specs here, it has a usb dac

http://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/uk/node/199

 

[luckylion100]

One other thing and this isn't intended to sound in any way patronising or condescending, but don't be distracted or lured in by coloured display screens on front panels (Pioneer and others). In my opinion in real life operation these serve little purpose... just think of a fellow forum member Blacksabbath and his beautiful Yamaha AS3000 amp's front panel power meter display. He states he has it turned off... personally I think they look very cool but cool can be of short term appeal. Don't be suckered in by the bling. ;-)

 

[muljao]

One other thing and this isn't intended to sound in any way patronising or condescending, but don't be distracted or lured in by coloured display screens on front panels (Pioneer and others). In my opinion in real life operation these serve little purpose... just think of a fellow forum member Blacksabbath and his beautiful Yamaha AS3000 amp's front panel power meter display. He states he has it turned off... personally I think they look very cool but cool can be of short term appeal. Don't be suckered in by the bling. ;-)

To be honest, I am more for mininilist functional myself. Even the kit I have at home in both my room, all you'll see is a little led on the units to say they are on. Now , to be fair, if something has something like a screen and its a good product, I wouldn't worry to much, but hopefully these screens can be made fairly dim

 

[ellisdj]

My friend was trying to get his Pioneer N50a to work as usb dac using an external UPNP control point with mixed success.

He managed to get Linn Kinksy to recognise the Pioneer and play music, however he failed trying to get Linn Kazoo to work - it would not detect the Pioneer which I thought was odd.

It seemed to work ok using the Pioneer App - but the functionality of the app is very poor so we are trying to get him to be able to use a better control app for Ipad. BubbleDS is the best I have tried but its only on android as far as I know.

So the Pioneer N50a does work as a usb dac, but its not straight forward by the looks of it.

 

[muljao]

I don't know, but I'd have though plug in your laptop or pc, select the usb input on the pioneer and anything sound wise from the pc goes through the pioneer. Anything else would seem overkill for that function, I would have thought UPNP was only for wifi/streaming not taking over the soundcard

 

[ellisdj]

How else do you select the music you want to listen to.

In my eyes what makes these solutions great is access to your music library.

BubbleDS brings up all your album art so that you can flick through your whole library and select the tracks you want to play from whatever album building a playlist - this is a basic funciton that all streamer apps should provide but they dont.

I started with Meridian Sooloos which did this great but was very slow. If you look at JRiver and JRemote as the control app - this is the best solution In have experienced in so many ways, you can even 5 star rate each track so you remember the ones you like and dont on compliation albums etc, then you can ramdonly select 5 4 or 3 etc star tracks only to have a playlist created for you an all sorts. I appreciate this is a closed loop system but it was an excellent one

 

[muljao]

I am not saying that upnp isn't great and that. What i mean is that if you plug your computer into the usb on the pioneer, all the sound should, if selected come out through the pioneer and into your hifi. That is how I understand it. I'd often do this when playing flac files directly from say WMP or Musicbee (basically using the computer as a source)

UPNP is for streaming and is not necessary for direct sound card replacement using a dac, though how you control it is up to the individual

 

[Andrewjvt]

How else do you select the music you want to listen to.

In my eyes what makes these solutions great is access to your music library.

BubbleDS brings up all your album art so that you can flick through your whole library and select the tracks you want to play from whatever album building a playlist - this is a basic funciton that all streamer apps should provide but they dont.

I started with Meridian Sooloos which did this great but was very slow.  If you look at JRiver and JRemote as the control app - this is the best solution In have experienced in so many ways, you can even 5 star rate each track so you remember the ones you like and dont on compliation albums etc, then you can ramdonly select 5 4 or 3 etc star tracks only to have a playlist created for you an all sorts.  I appreciate this is a closed loop system but it was an excellent one

 

Im also using jriver and very much rate it. But in not happy with having my laptop next to hifi when playing music so id like to know how you use it and what hardware?

 

[ellisdj]

I have a dedicated audio PC - so its like its own hifi component same as another streamer or whatever.

I do miss JRemote (for £5 was priceless) - it was perfect, however I have moved on from JRiver for SQ and can suffer BubbleDS - its good enough and just about stable enough to be usable without too much freaking out

EDIT - this is what you want - to turn everything on and sit down with your tablet - see all the album art organised in a neat way based on album, title or artist or whatever.

The ability to scroll up down left right or whatever though them ina fast fashion.

The you can select tracks from the albums you want to listen to building a play list.

This basic function is what makes this type of local streaming of music better than any other solution because you have access to the whole library quikcly and easily from the listening seat.

As soon as its difficult to manage the album choice and song selection this solution becomes a chore and not the enjoyable quick solution it should be to allow more time listening and less time faffing. Thats just how I see it as that is what I have always had

 

[Andrewjvt]

I have a dedicated audio PC - so its like its own hifi component same as another streamer or whatever.

I do miss JRemote (for £5 was priceless) - it was perfect, however I have moved on from JRiver for SQ and can suffer BubbleDS - its good enough and just about stable enough to be usable without too much freaking out

How do you send files to amp?
What about power supply in pc? Id have thought that you would have something less noisy than cheap pc supply

If i know better i bet you have that covered

 

[ellisdj]

Hi Andrew My system is fairly straight forward and possibly complex depending on how you look at it.

The PC Runs headless - so I plug all batteries in and power up - needs be done certain order and fire up the computer.

Its all loads up then all shuts down to a minimum state of running, I have to hard power off to get back into windows again as the main windows explorer gets shut down.

Internally there is usb card that feeds cleaner usb signal and power to a usb to spdif convertor Mutec MC3+. That feeds spdif to my processor / dac.

I power as many components inside the computer seperately as I can. Big Linear Power Supply to power just the mobo and cpu.

This is via a Pico PSU - if you look inside most streamers Naim, Meridian they are all basically shuttle pc's powered with a pico psu. The difference is I power direct to the cpu and then power the mobo only from the Pico PSU - this is using 2 different 12volt feeds from my Linear Power Supply. Then I have 4 battery supplies 2 for OS SSD (1 on clock 1 on ssd board) 1 battery for the USB Card and 1 Battery for the storage SSD.

Its funny at the HiFi Live Show Melco was showing off their streamers - they had 2 power supplies inside powering different things so the industry knows it works best - they have space and visual constraints, I dont my solution is ugly but I dont care

 

[Andrewjvt]

Hi Andrew  My system is fairly straight forward and possibly complex depending on how you look at it.

The PC Runs headless - so I plug all batteries in and power up - needs be done certain order and fire up the computer.

Its all loads up then all shuts down to a minimum state of running, I have to hard power off to get back into windows again as the main windows explorer gets shut down.

Internally there is usb card that feeds cleaner usb signal and power to a usb to spdif convertor Mutec MC3+.  That feeds spdif to my processor / dac.

I power as many components inside the computer seperately as I can.  Big Linear Power Supply to power just the mobo and cpu.

This is via a Pico PSU - if you look inside most streamers Naim, Meridian they are all basically shuttle pc's powered with a pico psu.  The difference is I power direct to the cpu and then power the mobo only from the Pico PSU - this is using 2 different 12volt feeds from my Linear Power Supply.  Then I have 4 battery supplies 2 for OS SSD (1 on clock 1 on ssd board) 1 battery for the USB Card and 1 Battery for the storage SSD.

Its funny at the HiFi Live Show Melco was showing off their streamers - they had 2 power supplies inside powering different things so the industry knows it works best - they have space and visual constraints, I dont my solution is ugly but I dont care

Thats pretty awesome and to me makes sense. The innous zennith uses 3 linear supply.

Now thats something id like to see in your set up.

I do believe that polluted pc does cause problems.

 

[ellisdj]

For software I use Minimserver as a library management tool - this is free

I then use JPlay which is the player and an optimiser of the delivery from the pc cpu - I think that is how it works - with the latest version they have bypassed the motherboard clock for a more direct to the dac solution - big sound improvement from that.

There is no need to use jriver at all - so sadly no jremote but BubbleDS on android works really well as a control app for this solution.

I use other optimising softwares the 2 above are the most important for function

 

[ellisdj]

The PC Audio market moves along so fast, China os where its at for this stuff - HDPlex is a german company I think they have just released the perfect Linear Power Supply for a pc - it supplies linear power direct to the board, atx compliant so there is no need for the pico psu anymore. The pico is a big noise creater apparently.

Core Audio Technology advanced small amercian company not sure if its still going - they created a full linear solution a few years ago - but it was dual box - a huge multi rail linear supply and then a normal pc type atx power supply - this was meag expensove as well.

 

[ellisdj]

The innuous zenith uses 1 power supply with several rails by the looks of it. However the sound must come off that motherboard and unless that is a custom design which is unlikely it will have all the same problems as a standard motherboard in any pc. Its a decent solution by all accounts but look at the space constraint - no space to work in to make it commercially viable.

Commercial constraints to limit performance imo only

Edit you can also see the pico psu powering the motherboard just behind to the right of the disk drive as I said before. These cost pnuts

 

[insider9]

This is via a Pico PSU - if you look inside most streamers Naim, Meridian they are all basically shuttle pc's powered with a pico psu. The difference is I power direct to the cpu and then power the mobo only from the Pico PSU - this is using 2 different 12volt feeds from my Linear Power Supply. Then I have 4 battery supplies 2 for OS SSD (1 on clock 1 on ssd board) 1 battery for the USB Card and 1 Battery for the storage SSD.

Ellis, thanks for the great tip. I've abandoned mini itx build a while back as wasn't happy with psu options I found. I also ideally at that point wanted to fit my Xonar Essence STX which was challenging to say the least. Now I'm looking at external dac route anyway, this PICO psu looks great. I'm sure I can put a decent mini itx build and get a second hand M-Dac for less than £500. That should just about be much more flexible solution long term and likely to give me superior sound quality to the Pioneer amd the likes.

Thanks Muljao for starting this thread. Without it I wouldn't stumble upon this