Perreaux amps

[Macspur]

Hi,

As well as the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP coming for a home demo, Sugden have agreed to send me their new Masterclass PDT4-F CDP for me to try... it's going to be a busy weekend with them and the two amps to play with.

Just pray I can make a decision after it all.

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi,

As well as the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP coming for a home demo, Sugden have agreed to send me their new Masterclass PDT4-F CDP for me to try... it's going to be a busy weekend with them and the two amps to play with.

Just pray I can make a decision after it all.

Cheers

Mac

Excellent!

Acalex is obviously rubbing off on you.

You know what's going to happen......the Sugden CDP + Sugden Amp will win out, leaving you back to square one. :rofl:

Looking forward to your view.

Cno

 

[Macspur]

Hi,

As well as the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP coming for a home demo, Sugden have agreed to send me their new Masterclass PDT4-F CDP for me to try... it's going to be a busy weekend with them and the two amps to play with.

Just pray I can make a decision after it all.

Cheers

Mac

Excellent!

Acalex is obviously rubbing off on you.

You know what's going to happen......the Sugden CDP + Sugden Amp will win out, leaving you back to square one. :rofl:

Looking forward to your view.

Cno

Cno, you're most probably right... would probably be the cheapest outcome too, but I won't make a decision on that basis alone, as this must be the last major expenditure on HiFi! or my bags will be packed and I'll be ready to go!

Cheers

Mac

 

[Electro]

You are going to be busy

It will be a fairer comparison with the addition of the PDT4-F CDP because there should be an obvious synergy between the PDT4-F CDP and your IA4 and the EMCIUP with the ECI5 . You could use your CDX2 with the Perreaux and just swap the speakers around for the first comparison then do a mix and match to see what happens, but just think of all the possible combinations :O you are really going to have your work cut out

When I was trying different amps before I bought my Electro' s I tried all the usual suspects including Krell , Primare , Bryston , Sugden, Audiolab and many more , and narrowed it down to the Sugden masterclass pre and stereo power amp and then borrowed a pair from my dealer for home demo .

I had also asked to demo the Electrocompaniet EC 4.7 pre and AW 120 DMB power amp but they had problem getting a pair from Castle Acoustics who were the importers at the time so I took the Sugdens home for a few days and was very impressed with them they sounded wonderful but I found they were very fussy about what type of music I played. Simple acoustic and vocal music was absolutely wonderful but as soon as I put anything with deep powerful rhythms or thick complex sounding type music the image just collapsed in a heap on the floor and the sound was thin hard and unpleasant , it seems that they reached the limits of the available performance very quickly and I am not talking about at high volume levels either !

Then I had a phone call from my dealer to say that the Electro's had arrived so I picked them up took them home and did a side by side comparison .

Well in fact there was no comparison the Electrocompaniet combo just sounded so much better with all types of music , it did not matter what I threw at them they just did it effortlessly without any fuss in a totally natural way .

At that time the Electro,s were half the price of the Sugden pair so that was a bonus too , and the rest is history

Good luck with the listening and I really hope you find what you are looking for as I have done .

One tip I can give you that works for me is to not try and analyse or dissect the music when doing comparisons try to listen to the the music as a whole as you would when listening to a live performance . Forget about all the HiFi nonsense and listen to the music, and if one of the combinations you listen to makes you forget that you are trying to choose a HiFi system even for a short moment then that is the one you should probably buy.

 

[Macspur]

Hi Electro,

How do you think the intergrated I'm trying will stand up to the pre/power you have?

Unfortunately, the Sugden prob won't arrive until after I've finished with the EMC1UP and I haven't heard back from the dealer with the Perreaux to confirm he's sending it for Thursday.. will Email him in a min.

Interested what you said about your experience with Sugden... must admit, my favoured genres are acoustic-jazz, so in the main along with the Harbeths, the IA-4 sounds beautiful. However, I know there's more to come and whether it means having to change the amp, CDP, or both, I will... funds permitting that is.

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

I've just found this: http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:category=1720028&inview=category1720028&mode=category&offset=0&sort=priceAsc

ECI-5......£1599
EC 4.7 Pre.....£1125

 

[Macspur]

I've just found this: http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:category=1720028&inview=category1720028&mode=category&offset=0&sort=priceAsc ECI-5......£1599 EC 4.7 Pre.....£1125

Thank you for that Cno.

The amp I'm trying is the MKii model, don't know what the difference is... Audio Destination have a nearly new one for a good price.

Are you suggesting I should consider hooking the intergrated up with a pre? or have I got the wrong end of the stick... I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to pre and power amps.

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

Thank you for that Cno.

The amp I'm trying is the MKii model, don't know what the difference is... Audio Destination have a nearly new one for a good price.

Are you suggesting I should consider hooking the intergrated up with a pre? or have I got the wrong end of the stick... I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to pre and power amps.

Cheers

Mac

Here is a brief description of the difference (but you may have to rely on Electro to describe improvements in the sound - though the mark 2 won't be twice as good)): http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:mode=product&product=6476578

I only mentioned the pre, in case you went the pre/power route and it would save some money.

 

[Macspur]

Thank you for that Cno.

The amp I'm trying is the MKii model, don't know what the difference is... Audio Destination have a nearly new one for a good price.

Are you suggesting I should consider hooking the intergrated up with a pre? or have I got the wrong end of the stick... I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to pre and power amps.

Cheers

Mac

Here is a brief description of the difference (but you may have to rely on Electro to describe improvements in the sound - though the mark 2 won't be twice as good)): http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:mode=product&product=6476578 I only mentioned the pre, in case you went the pre/power route and it would save some money.

OK, thanks again Cno.

Cheers

Mac

 

[Electro]

Hi Electro,

How do you think the intergrated I'm trying will stand up to the pre/power you have?

Unfortunately, the Sugden prob won't arrive until after I've finished with the EMC1UP and I haven't heard back from the dealer with the Perreaux to confirm he's sending it for Thursday.. will Email him in a min.

Interested what you said about your experience with Sugden... must admit, my favoured genres are acoustic-jazz, so in the main along with the Harbeths, the IA-4 sounds beautiful. However, I know there's more to come and whether it means having to change the amp, CDP, or both, I will... funds permitting that is.

Cheers

Mac

I think it may be a good thing that all the different pieces of equipment will not be arriving at the same time it would probably been too much to take in over a short period of time :wall:

The EC 4.7 pre and AW120 power if you look at the power figures seem very similar to the ECI5 mk 2, but AW120 power amp alone benefits from a power supply that is more that double the size at 1.3 kw ( 2x 650 va transformers) and is a dual mono construction which is basically two separate mono amplifiers in one box hence the DMB the B stands for balanced and of course the EC 4.7 preamp has its own power supply as well being in a separate box .

Obviously all this does improve things but the ECi5 is still a superb amp and is more than powerful enough for your Harbeths and it has all of the Electrocompaniet qualities !

I have had my Electro amps now for many years and I use them daily and they still amaze me every time I listen to music , they just do something very special that is very hard to explain .

 

[Electro]

Thank you for that Cno.

The amp I'm trying is the MKii model, don't know what the difference is... Audio Destination have a nearly new one for a good price.

Are you suggesting I should consider hooking the intergrated up with a pre? or have I got the wrong end of the stick... I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to pre and power amps.

Cheers

Mac

Here is a brief description of the difference (but you may have to rely on Electro to describe improvements in the sound - though the mark 2 won't be twice as good)): http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:mode=product&product=6476578 I only mentioned the pre, in case you went the pre/power route and it would save some money.

There is not a massive difference in sound quality between the Original ECI5 and the MK2 version even though there are a lot of differences inside they are still built on the same principals , in fact quite a few Electrocompaniet fans actually prefer the sound of the original but that is nothing to worry about .

The original is a touch softer and darker in presentation maybe a little warmer sounding that the MK2 .

You could go down the pre- power route using the EC4.7 but unless you are going to change the Harbeths for something harder to drive it would probably be overkill .

 

[CnoEvil]

There is not a massive difference in sound quality between the Original ECI5 and the MK2 version even though there are a lot of differences inside they are still built on the same principals , in fact quite a few Electrocompaniet fans actually prefer the sound of the original but that is nothing to worry about .

The original is a touch softer and darker in presentation maybe a little warmer sounding that the MK2 .

You could go down the pre- power route using the EC4.7 but unless you are going to change the Harbeths for something harder to drive it would probably be overkill .

Thank you for filling in, where there were gaps in my knowledge.....and I think your comment on the pre/power is sensible and insightful.

:cheers:

Cno

 

[Macspur]

There is not a massive difference in sound quality between the Original ECI5 and the MK2 version even though there are a lot of differences inside they are still built on the same principals , in fact quite a few Electrocompaniet fans actually prefer the sound of the original but that is nothing to worry about .

The original is a touch softer and darker in presentation maybe a little warmer sounding that the MK2 .

You could go down the pre- power route using the EC4.7 but unless you are going to change the Harbeths for something harder to drive it would probably be overkill .

Thank you for filling in, where there were gaps in my knowledge.....and I think your comment on the pre/power is sensible and insightful.

:cheers:

Cno

I agree, thank you both.

Cheers

Mac

 

[Macspur]

Hi,

Well, the Electrocompaniet amp and CDP turned up yesterday, along with the Perreaux, so thought I'd report my thoughts so far.

Firstly, the Perreaux Eloquence 150I is definitely not for me. Compared to the IA-4 it's sounds thin and digital... can't fault it for build quality, detail and resolution, but no soul. In terms of user interfase and functionality, it's second to none, but as far as I'm concerned, that's not what I buy an amp for.

The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii

was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.

Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.

I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.

As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but

it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.

Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.

I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.

As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but

it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.

Cheers

Mac

All interesting stuff.

I suggest you never listen to the 35i, as it takes everything you like about the Sugden and improves upon it (except the power consumption).....it will never leave your home. >)

I really liked the Electro CDP when I heard it...so it will be a great shoot out with the Sugden CDP.

 

[Macspur]

The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.

Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.

I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.

As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but

it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.

Cheers

Mac

All interesting stuff.

I suggest you never listen to the 35i, as it takes everything you like about the Sugden and improves upon it (except the power consumption).....it will never leave your home. >) I really liked the Electro CDP when I heard it...so it will be a great shoot out with the Sugden CDP.

Cno, you really are a bad influence

At this rate MF will be paying you commision.

Cheers

Mac

 

[acalex]

The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.

Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.

I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.

As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but

it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.

Cheers

Mac

All interesting stuff.

I suggest you never listen to the 35i, as it takes everything you like about the Sugden and improves upon it (except the power consumption).....it will never leave your home. >) I really liked the Electro CDP when I heard it...so it will be a great shoot out with the Sugden CDP.

Cno, you really are a bad influence

At this rate MF will be paying you commision.

Cheers

Mac

Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.

BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....

 

[Electro]

Hi,

Well, the Electrocompaniet amp and CDP turned up yesterday, along with the Perreaux, so thought I'd report my thoughts so far.

Firstly, the Perreaux Eloquence 150I is definitely not for me. Compared to the IA-4 it's sounds thin and digital... can't fault it for build quality, detail and resolution, but no soul. In terms of user interfase and functionality, it's second to none, but as far as I'm concerned, that's not what I buy an amp for.

The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii

was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.

Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.

I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.

As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but

it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.

Cheers

Mac

I thought you would like the EMC1up it's quite special isn't it

The ECI5 mk2 takes quite a while to fully warm up and sound it's best from stone cold and the last thing to appear is that effortless sense of space and inner detail so it may improve with more time over the weekend .

If you remember I said that some Electrocompaniet fans prefer the original ECI5 well to be honest that includes me but I did not want to put you off the MK2 before you had a chance to hear it for yourself especially as it was available at such a good price. The ECI5 mk2 has lost a little of the magic that it's predecessors had but it is still a very good amp !

If the MK2 does not suit your taste then it may be worth trying the Original ECI5 (second hand ) or even the amazing little ECI3 that has remained in it's original form and is still available new . Both of these are are closer to the Sugden sound but with more drive and dynamic headroom .

It is a little puzzling that Electrocompaniet still list the original ECI5 as available alongside the mk2 version on their website so it might be available .

http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/integrated/

Just looking at the specs of the Original and the MK2 I have noticed what I think may be the main difference , the power consumption with no load or signal on the original ECI5 spec is 160w but on the MK2 it is only 100w , this suggests to me that the original ECI5 is more biased into class A hence the difference in sound quality

Good listening , Electro.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.

BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....

yeah, that sounds very discouraging, indeed

 

[CnoEvil]

Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.

BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....

yeah, that sounds very discouraging, indeed

I suppose it comes down to Carbon Footprint vs Sound Quality.....Mac is trying to sort both. :help:

 

[Macspur]

The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.

Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.

I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.

As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but

it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.

Cheers

Mac

All interesting stuff.

I suggest you never listen to the 35i, as it takes everything you like about the Sugden and improves upon it (except the power consumption).....it will never leave your home. >) I really liked the Electro CDP when I heard it...so it will be a great shoot out with the Sugden CDP.

Cno, you really are a bad influence

At this rate MF will be paying you commission.

Cheers

Mac

Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.

BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....

Alex,

As much as I'd like to hear the AMS, I think with the size of my listening room, the base might be a bit too much.

Cheers

Mac

 

[acalex]

Mac, don't listen to the AMS...trust me :read:

Got to ear this morning the Perreaux amp, the 250 full optional with DAC and phonostage built in.

It is indeed an amazing amp. Very very musical, not at all analytical but very detailed. Not as warm as the AMS but not too far. If matched with good speakers it can be a magic amp. We connected it to some speakers the guy produces itself, 8 Ohm at 92dB (He said his speakers are almost electrostatic speakers) sat down and got very impressed. Huge soundstage...an unbelievable level of details (so detailed it could seem bright sounding but not at all) and great dynamics also.

Frankly speaking...I would rate the Perreaux 250 at the same level of the AMS...way better than the Sudgen. Plenty of power...he could drive those huge 4 ways speakers easily...always in control also at a super-loud level (even if the volume was absolutely loud it was still a pleasure to listen)....

 

[acalex]

Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.

BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....

yeah, that sounds very discouraging, indeed

I suppose it comes down to Carbon Footprint vs Sound Quality.....Mac is trying to sort both. :help:

Perreaux could be a great compromise of both...pity NZ is so far...if something goes wrong it will take quite some money to ship it there and back. And the Perreaux is indeed full of electronics onboard

 

[Roby]

Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.

BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....

yeah, that sounds very discouraging, indeed

I suppose it comes down to Carbon Footprint vs Sound Quality.....Mac is trying to sort both. :help:

Perreaux could be a great compromise of both...pity NZ is so far...if something goes wrong it will take quite some money to ship it there and back. And the Perreaux is indeed full of electronics onboard

I comletly agree I didn't epect it but it was haevenly good. An haeve to be said Service there by Koen Veassen was super it was almost like home ;-) (maybe the service is an Antwerp thing).

So to compleet this I would seriously consider the 250 If ther was not the problem of the expensive shipment. It's a detail to take in consideration because let's be honest it doesn't come cheap.

Exept that it would have been a real hard choice to pick between the AMS an the 250

But the sound was so good an acurate, we both kind of completly forget this little point.

Plenty of bass but always in control an never overwelming an it stay's airy an extreemly detailed an transparant but I never had this weerd space sound you can get with extreemly detailed amps.

One thing it is not really forgiving bad recording I think the ams is slightly more forgiving on that point.

But than it's is still more forgiving tan the M6 500i who is a real nightmare for bad recordings...

 

[Macspur]

Mac, don't listen to the AMS...trust me :read:

Got to ear this morning the Perreaux amp, the 250 full optional with DAC and phonostage built in.

It is indeed an amazing amp. Very very musical, not at all analytical but very detailed. Not as warm as the AMS but not too far. If matched with good speakers it can be a magic amp. We connected it to some speakers the guy produces itself, 8 Ohm at 92dB (He said his speakers are almost electrostatic speakers) sat down and got very impressed. Huge soundstage...an unbelievable level of details (so detailed it could seem bright sounding but not at all) and great dynamics also.

Frankly speaking...I would rate the Perreaux 250 at the same level of the AMS...way better than the Sudgen. Plenty of power...he could drive those huge 4 ways speakers easily...always in control also at a super-loud level (even if the volume was absolutely loud it was still a pleasure to listen)....

Don't worry, I probably won't get to hear the AMS.

It just goes to show how subjective this hobby is and how important system matching is. For me, in my set up, the Perreaux was just that, analytical, lacking the real emotion of the Sugden.

I've made up my mind, if I'm to say goodbye to my IA-4, it will be an Electrocompaniet, but not sure in which guise, intergrated, or perhaps a pre-power combo, but that will have to wait for a while now, if I'm to buy the CDP first.

Cheers

Mac