bigboss
Moderator
strapped for cash said:
That's the bit that confuses me. Isn't data upscaled to UHD resolution already (so you see the picture filling up the UHD screen)? Passive 3D glasses do not play any role until the picture is displayed.
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CES Hands On - Samsung HW-Q990F review
That's the bit that confuses me. Isn't data upscaled to UHD resolution already (so you see the picture filling up the UHD screen)? Passive 3D glasses do not play any role until the picture is displayed.
bigboss said:
Apologies if you know this already, or if I'm misinterpreting your question.
With passive 3D the TV has to display left and right eye images simultaneously (rather than in rapid sequence as with active 3D).
LG's FPR (film pattern retarder) method uses two sets of filters, one bonded to the screen to filter left and right eye views into different light patterns, the other in the left and right eye glasses lenses that only allow the corresponding light pattern through.
This film pattern retarder coating is aligned with the TV's pixels to create a vertical step pattern -- one line displays the left eye view, the next line displays the right eye view, and so on, alternately...
Obviously this leads to resolution loss with 1080p televisions because the TV can display a maximum of 540 lines of picture information per eye, meaning the image must be downscaled.
This isn't the case with UHD TVs, because the number of vertical lines that make up UHD resolution doubles the number needed to display 1080 lines for both left and right eye views simultaneously.
The easiest (and therefore least complicated) way for a UHD TV to display full HD passive 3D is for the TV to display two identical lines of picture information for each film pattern retarder step.
I can't state definitively that UHD passive 3D works this way, as there's virtually no information on this in the public domain, but it would be laborious for the TV to upscale the image to full UHD resolution only to downscale afterwards for passive 3D.
Again, hope that all makes sense. Obviously there's an element of guesswork to the above, and I'm questioning my ability to explain this all clearly rather than your ability to grasp it all.
I had a bash at editing the above for greater clarity, but the spam filter kicked in.
These system bugs are frustrating.
These system bugs are frustrating.
Paul.
Well-known member
If this were the case, the tv would still require horizontal up scaling. The 4k tv is double the resolution both vertically and horizontally. If LG are displaying both left and right frames at the same time, this creates a 1920x2160 image, whereas 3840x2160 is required.
Paul. said:
Can't argue with that.
I think the fundamental point is that, while upscaling is required to fill the UHD pixel count, there isn't technically a resolution loss with UHD passive 3D.
At the same time, you don't have to suffer active 3D's crosstalk and flickering, so UHD passive 3D in principle (and according to David Katzmaier's account) improves on earlier active and passive 3DTV systems.
For anyone who hasn't noticed, WHF's 902 review is now online.
As with another review, I was intrigued by commentary on black level and screen uniformity.
WHF's review states that: "In a dark scene, those blacks aren’t quite so solid and dark. The slightly patchy backlighting in the corners of our set’s screen doesn’t help, either."
Presumably the 902's local dimming system was engaged when assessing this aspect of the TV's performance (ideally at Min setting).
As I've noted above, going by the numbers, the 902 trounces other LCD-based 4K displays, if falling short of the best plasma TVs; while the local dimming system should at the very least ameliorate, and ideally almost eradciate, issues with panel light distribution.
It's odd again, therefore, that the review makes no observable distinction between the 902's black level response and Samsung and Sony 4K TVs performance in this regard.
It's also tricky to understand how a TV that uses what's perhaps the most sophisticated local dimming system ever devised offers poor screen uniformity, unless, as I say, the local dimming system was not engaged during testing.
Once more, I'm not saying the review is wrong, or that the local dimming system wasn't engaged; I'm simply trying to make sense of the commentary. I also appreciate that price factors into star ratings and that the 902 would need to go some to justify the premium over rival televisions.
As with another review, I was intrigued by commentary on black level and screen uniformity.
WHF's review states that: "In a dark scene, those blacks aren’t quite so solid and dark. The slightly patchy backlighting in the corners of our set’s screen doesn’t help, either."
Presumably the 902's local dimming system was engaged when assessing this aspect of the TV's performance (ideally at Min setting).
As I've noted above, going by the numbers, the 902 trounces other LCD-based 4K displays, if falling short of the best plasma TVs; while the local dimming system should at the very least ameliorate, and ideally almost eradciate, issues with panel light distribution.
It's odd again, therefore, that the review makes no observable distinction between the 902's black level response and Samsung and Sony 4K TVs performance in this regard.
It's also tricky to understand how a TV that uses what's perhaps the most sophisticated local dimming system ever devised offers poor screen uniformity, unless, as I say, the local dimming system was not engaged during testing.
Once more, I'm not saying the review is wrong, or that the local dimming system wasn't engaged; I'm simply trying to make sense of the commentary. I also appreciate that price factors into star ratings and that the 902 would need to go some to justify the premium over rival televisions.
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
A second price drop since its introduction in mid-November - the 65" version is now £3,699 at Richer Sounds. Good to see that the £5K price didnt't last too long. I had noticed that it was first reduced to £4K, and it is now a further £300 lighter. Just a shame that nothing can be done about its physical weight, the 65" still weighs 52kg including the still daftly-sloping-back stand.
Now that it is a vaguely sensible price compared to Samsung HU7500, HU8500 and Sony 9005 models (though they themselves are also cheaper now than in November) perhaps it will actually sell in some numbers. Not to me, though.
Now that it is a vaguely sensible price compared to Samsung HU7500, HU8500 and Sony 9005 models (though they themselves are also cheaper now than in November) perhaps it will actually sell in some numbers. Not to me, though.
I read 3 other reviews on this TV including on Avforum and Digital versus.Not an unanimous verdict.I am confused so would not consider it.
HDTv test review on the AX902 was the most glowing review.They conducted the first UK test. Some people brought the TV on that one review...aaraaaarg
I am afriade this TV isn't a more viable choice for 4k after OLED.
Shame.
HDTv test review on the AX902 was the most glowing review.They conducted the first UK test. Some people brought the TV on that one review...aaraaaarg
I am afriade this TV isn't a more viable choice for 4k after OLED.
Shame.
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
Another review, in HCC magazine (number 244, March 2015, which is now on sale) of the Panasonic TX-55AX902. It was reviewed at a price of £3,100, but it is now £2,499 at John Lewis. For some reason Richer Sounds don't stock the 55" size, they do only the 65" size. Anyway, back to the Home Cinema Choice review. Overall, Steve May likes it, but not enough for it to be a plasma substitute, one of its main faults being motion artefacts, He ends with "Close then, but no (plasma) cigar." It doesn't get a "Best Buy" or even a "Recommended" stamp.
This Ax902 TV is only for those who want to resurrect the ghost of plasmas great passing.
The columnist at HCC Vincent....gave the best review to it but no consensus with other review sites.
A miss rather than a hit.
The columnist at HCC Vincent....gave the best review to it but no consensus with other review sites.
A miss rather than a hit.
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
hybridauth_Facebook_100000090351445 said:
Just to be clear, Vincent Teoh, who now seems to be a columnist at Home Cinema Choice, did not review the Panasonic AX902 in the pages of HCC. He did review it, but I think you'll find that that was on the HD TV website.
I was just browsing currys website when i came accross this,
http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-dvd-blu-ray/televisions/large-screen-tvs-32-and-over/panasonic-viera-tx-65ax902b-smart-3d-4k-ultra-hd-65-led-tv-10077140-pdt.html
I was quite surprised, i've never known a tv to have quadruple tuners before, *shok* what is the point of that ?
http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-dvd-blu-ray/televisions/large-screen-tvs-32-and-over/panasonic-viera-tx-65ax902b-smart-3d-4k-ultra-hd-65-led-tv-10077140-pdt.html
I was quite surprised, i've never known a tv to have quadruple tuners before, *shok* what is the point of that ?
bigboss
Moderator
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
Only three grand at Currys now for the 65" size, it's come down by two grand since it was released in November 2014. Maybe that's why it's out of stock! *smile*.
I'd still choose the Samsung UE65HU7500 over the Panasonic, even though they are now the same £3K price at Richer Sounds. This Panasonic just doesn't do it for me, pity as a few months ago I had been looking forward to it.
I'd still choose the Samsung UE65HU7500 over the Panasonic, even though they are now the same £3K price at Richer Sounds. This Panasonic just doesn't do it for me, pity as a few months ago I had been looking forward to it.
michael hoy
Well-known member
bigboss
Moderator
bigboss
Moderator
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