Panasonic AX902B

[Deleted member 2457]

If you're asking me, gel, I don't have any particular thoughts about LG OLEDs. I accept that your 55EA980W seems to be universally loved, but the 930C successor less so. I've never particularly lusted after an OLED, whether by LG or Samsung or anyone else. Maybe it's because I still mourn the demise of plasma sets, apart from the last LG plasmas which offer great value for money at Currys. On the other hand, I do lust after a 4K set, specifically the Samsung 75HU75000.

Yep, I was asking you. *smile*. I thought that you might want an Oled but you surprise me you don't!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Hi all. Just thought you may be interested to know that we have an AX902 in the building. We'll be testing over the coming days, so keep an eye out for our review!

Hello Mr Madden,

As you wrote the above post on Friday 14th November, I had been hoping to see a review by now ...... maybe attention has been diverted by the imminent LG 4K OLED!!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

The Panasonic AX902B features prominently in the published results of the latest 4K television shootout in Leeds, http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/best-4k-201412053957.htm

The Panasonic AX902B does very well, but was not a runaway winner, despite costing £1,700 more (check Richer Sounds prices) than the Samsung UE65HU8500.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

AVForums have just got their review out. Looks like Oled is king!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

https://www.avforums.com/review/panasonic-tx-55ax902b-ax902-ultra-hd-4k-tv-review.10928

 

[Deleted member 2457]

3 stars:

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/panasonic-viera-tx-55ax902b-p22102/test.html

 

[strapped for cash]

3 stars:

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/panasonic-viera-tx-55ax902b-p...

Strange review...

It seems the reviewer took the ANSI measurement as representative of performance; and there's no mention of Adaptive Backlight Control. (Was this even engaged for review purposes?)

I'm not defending the TV's performance, since I don't own one, haven't seen one, and I have my issues with Panasonic. In other words, I have no interest in singing the 902's praises.

I also accept that Steve was a little underwhelmed by the 902's black level performance, as stated in his AVF review; while the price is ludicrous relative to the competition.

At the same time, I'm not convinced the DigitalVersus reviewers gave the 902 a fair crack of the whip, or fully investigated what this TV can do once the local dimming system is engaged.

 

[strapped for cash]

To give some context to the above (and admittedly I'm only going by the numbers), Steve pegged the 902's black level at 0.02 cd/m2, with Adaptive Backlight Control set to minimum, which is close to the Samsung F8500's performance.

However, in recent AVF reviews of Samsung and Sony 4K sets, readings of 0.05 cd/m2 were described as excellent.

Again, I'm not suggesting that the 902 is a groundbreaking television, or even a sensible purchase for anyone with more sense than money, or anything but the sturdiest of TV stands. There's nevertheless some inconsistency across reviews with regard to what constitutes excellent MLL.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

To give some context to the above (and admittedly I'm only going by the numbers), Steve pegged the 902's black level at 0.02 cd/m2, with Adaptive Backlight Control set to minimum, which is close to the Samsung F8500's performance.

However, in recent AVF reviews of Samsung and Sony 4K sets, readings of 0.05 cd/m2 were described as excellent.

Again, I'm not suggesting that the 902 is a groundbreaking television, or even a sensible purchase for anyone with more sense than money, or anything but the sturdiest of TV stands. There's nevertheless some inconsistency across reviews with regard to what constitutes excellent MLL.

Yep, I was confused by the black level readings too.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

https://www.avforums.com/review/panasonic-tx-55ax902b-ax902-ultra-hd-4k-...

Steve Withers says at one point "However the black levels, whilst good for an LCD TV, still weren't as impressive as our Pioneer Kuro and not a patch on the LG OLED we reviewed recently."

Yet, on Saturday 6th December when I was in Richer Sounds, the salesman insisted that the Panasonic AX902 had easily the best black levels of any (non-OLED, I think he meant) television on the market. He said that he and others had recently been on some sort of training day and they compared the new Panasonic with rivals. He said that the Panasonic AX902 had much better blacks than competitors like Samsung curved HU8500 and the Sony X9005, or even last year's Panasonic AX80.. So it is puzzling that, among knowledgable people, there are such differences of opinion. No such disagreements about the price of the Panasonic AX902 though - widely regarded as simply too high.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

https://www.avforums.com/review/panasonic-tx-55ax902b-ax902-ultra-hd-4k-...

Steve Withers says at one point "However the black levels, whilst good for an LCD TV, still weren't as impressive as our Pioneer Kuro and not a patch on the LG OLED we reviewed recently."

Yet, on Saturday 6th December when I was in Richer Sounds, the salesman insisted that the Panasonic AX902 had easily the best black levels of any (non-OLED, I think he meant) television on the market. He said that he and others had recently been on some sort of training day and they compared the new Panasonic with rivals. He said that the Panasonic AX902 had much better blacks than competitors like Samsung curved HU8500 and the Sony X9005, or even last year's Panasonic AX80.. So it is puzzling that, among knowledgable people, there are such differences of opinion. No such disagreements about the price of the Panasonic AX902 though - widely regarded as simply too high.

Yep, it is a bit puzzling.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

A significantly more friendly review from Trusted Reviews, here.

 

[Canary_Jules]

Hi guys, just thought I'd pass back some opinions on the AX902 after spending considerable time with one during a recent calibration. I was principally calibrating it in conjunction with a Lumagen Radiance 2143, the idea being to make use of the 2143's 17x17x17 LUT and superb upscaling capabilities. However, it was by no means an easy ride. It took me quite some time to work out why, instead of the expected perfect images with the Lumagen, the calibration was continually messed up. The unacceptably high input lag of the AX902 resulted in a mistiming of the presentation of the patterns and the meter readings. Even with Game Mode switched on readings were on a knife edge as the AX902 could take several several seconds to become stable in between patterns. This naturally leads me to conclude, as have several reviewers, that if you are interested in gaming the AX902 is probably not the TV of choice. In the end I managed to get decent 3d LUTs with an excellent picture via the Lumagen but Panasonic desperately need to bring out a firmware update, as Samsung have recently done with the HU8500, to reduce input lag. I also calibrated several modes, both 2d and 3d, using the AX902s own calibration controls. I am happy to report that these work superbly and also deliver great image accuracy.

Backlight uniformity was ok, with moderate bright patches in certain areas - particularly in the top left hand corner. Black levels without the dimming engaged were mediocre. However, engaging the dimming made a big difference to black level and is simply essential on this set. Still, even with dimming engaged the black levels and contrast on the AX902 aren't in plasma league - so I get Steve Wither's point. Otherwise, 2d picture performance was very pleasing. I was most impressed by the 3d performance which uses passive glasses. This TV puts out a really bright, colour accurate 3d picture with oodles of depth and minimal crosstalk. It's simply terrific in 3d.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Hi guys, just thought I'd pass back some opinions on the AX902 after spending considerable time with one during a recent calibration. I was principally calibrating it in conjunction with a Lumagen Radiance 2143, the idea being to make use of the 2143's 17x17x17 LUT and superb upscaling capabilities. However, it was by no means an easy ride. It took me quite some time to work out why, instead of the expected perfect images with the Lumagen, the calibration was continually messed up. The unacceptably high input lag of the AX902 resulted in a mistiming of the presentation of the patterns and the meter readings. Even with Game Mode switched on readings were on a knife edge as the AX902 could take several several seconds to become stable in between patterns. This naturally leads me to conclude, as have several reviewers, that if you are interested in gaming the AX902 is probably not the TV of choice. In the end I managed to get decent 3d LUTs with an excellent picture via the Lumagen but Panasonic desperately need to bring out a firmware update, as Samsung have recently done with the HU8500, to reduce input lag. I also calibrated several modes, both 2d and 3d, using the AX902s own calibration controls. I am happy to report that these work superbly and also deliver great image accuracy.

Backlight uniformity was ok, with moderate bright patches in certain areas - particularly in the top left hand corner. Black levels without the dimming engaged were mediocre. However, engaging the dimming made a big difference to black level and is simply essential on this set. Still, even with dimming engaged the black levels and contrast on the AX902 aren't in plasma league - so I get Steve Wither's point. Otherwise, 2d picture performance was very pleasing. I was most impressed by the 3d performance which uses passive glasses. This TV puts out a really bright, colour accurate 3d picture with oodles of depth and minimal crosstalk. It's simply terrific in 3d.

Jules, did you see it in 4K? And what do you make of 4K? Reports and reviews state 4K at 55inches is pointless, what do you think? Cheers

 

[ellisdj]

I am sure I saw this set in a store yesterday as wasnt impressed.

I noticed DSE straight off which I didnt expect to see. I also noticed that similar to a 4K Sony I have seen it seem to lack shades of grey and it went instant black with not much detail. I assume this is crush?

It was playing the RED Bull snowboarding Blu ray which should have been glossy and vibrant remeber seeing at the Bristol Show Kef demo a few years ago - it didnt look like that to me.

They have not bested the best plasma with this set - keep working on it Panasonic.

Whats interesting there appears to be a marrket change - LG is now king of the TV hill by the looks of it.

Pioneer Gone, Panasonic Gone - Now LG - will it cripple their business like the Kings companies before?

 

[strapped for cash]

Backlight uniformity was ok, with moderate bright patches in certain areas - particularly in the top left hand corner. Black levels without the dimming engaged were mediocre. However, engaging the dimming made a big difference to black level and is simply essential on this set. Still, even with dimming engaged the black levels and contrast on the AX902 aren't in plasma league - so I get Steve Wither's point.

Thanks Jules. It's good to get your view.

Presumably backlight uniformity improved with local dimming engaged; and while the 902 doesn't rival PDP in terms of MLL, the numbers suggest the 902 compares favourably with back other LCD models (except perhaps the Elite, which had its own problems).

I wonder if Panasonic overpromised with its "plasma beating" claims, and whether a more modest approach might have encouraged more favourable reviews. I appreciate that the 902 is still vastly overpriced, which doesn't help.

 

[Canary_Jules]

Backlight uniformity was ok, with moderate bright patches in certain areas - particularly in the top left hand corner. Black levels without the dimming engaged were mediocre. However, engaging the dimming made a big difference to black level and is simply essential on this set. Still, even with dimming engaged the black levels and contrast on the AX902 aren't in plasma league - so I get Steve Wither's point.

Thanks Jules. It's good to get your view.

Presumably backlight uniformity improved with local dimming engaged; and while the 902 doesn't rival PDP in terms of MLL, the numbers suggest the 902 compares favourably with back other LCD models (except perhaps the Elite, which had its own problems).

I wonder if Panasonic overpromised with its "plasma beating" claims, and whether a more modest approach might have encouraged more favourable reviews. I appreciate that the 902 is still vastly overpriced, which doesn't help.

I think you're right. By overpromising the AX902 as a plasma beater Panasonic have merely created a rod for their own back. As a result reviewers are comparing it to the now deceased but fondly remembered VT & ZT65 and Pioneer Kuros and, unsurprisingly the AX902 is not faring well. However, that's not to say that the AX902 isn't a really good LCD TV, because it is. Yes, uniformity improved with the dimming being engaged.

 

[Canary_Jules]

Hi guys, just thought I'd pass back some opinions on the AX902 after spending considerable time with one during a recent calibration. I was principally calibrating it in conjunction with a Lumagen Radiance 2143, the idea being to make use of the 2143's 17x17x17 LUT and superb upscaling capabilities. However, it was by no means an easy ride. It took me quite some time to work out why, instead of the expected perfect images with the Lumagen, the calibration was continually messed up. The unacceptably high input lag of the AX902 resulted in a mistiming of the presentation of the patterns and the meter readings. Even with Game Mode switched on readings were on a knife edge as the AX902 could take several several seconds to become stable in between patterns. This naturally leads me to conclude, as have several reviewers, that if you are interested in gaming the AX902 is probably not the TV of choice. In the end I managed to get decent 3d LUTs with an excellent picture via the Lumagen but Panasonic desperately need to bring out a firmware update, as Samsung have recently done with the HU8500, to reduce input lag. I also calibrated several modes, both 2d and 3d, using the AX902s own calibration controls. I am happy to report that these work superbly and also deliver great image accuracy.

Backlight uniformity was ok, with moderate bright patches in certain areas - particularly in the top left hand corner. Black levels without the dimming engaged were mediocre. However, engaging the dimming made a big difference to black level and is simply essential on this set. Still, even with dimming engaged the black levels and contrast on the AX902 aren't in plasma league - so I get Steve Wither's point. Otherwise, 2d picture performance was very pleasing. I was most impressed by the 3d performance which uses passive glasses. This TV puts out a really bright, colour accurate 3d picture with oodles of depth and minimal crosstalk. It's simply terrific in 3d.

Jules, did you see it in 4K? And what do you make of 4K? Reports and reviews state 4K at 55inches is pointless, what do you think? Cheers

Sorry, I didn't see any native 4k content as there was something up with my client's Netflix account. However, it's certainly debateable whether 4k at 55" is worth it. AFAIK you're going to have to sit no further away than around 6' from the screen before you begin to notice the resolution improvement over 1080 - and you'll get the maximum benefit at around 3'. The way that most people have their living rooms set out that just won't be possible. On 4k in general I'm a big fan. I have the Sony VW500ES 4k projector and a 113" screen. I also have some Sony supplied native 4k material. At that size 4k is most apparent from my seating position. In any case, the way that this projector upscales to 4k is marvellous so I've been enjoying 'super Blu-ray' for about a year.

 

[strapped for cash]

Sorry, I didn't see any native 4k content as there was something up with my client's Netflix account. However, it's certainly debateable whether 4k at 55" is worth it. AFAIK you're going to have to sit no further away than around 6' from the screen before you begin to notice the resolution improvement over 1080 - and you'll get the maximum benefit at around 3'.

I take your point entirely about 4K's debatable benefits on smaller screens.

I'm among a minority of videophiles that still enjoy the occasional 3D flick; and I think 4K televisions' capacity to display true HD passive 3D is often overlooked.* I'd love a 4K OLED television with this feature, preferably at 60" or above.

I'll probably bite when prices fall below £3,000, which may be a couple of years away, despite OLED prices dropping markedly in just one year.

* probably because there's little interest in 3D more generally.

 

[strapped for cash]

By overpromising the AX902 as a plasma beater Panasonic have merely created a rod for their own back. As a result reviewers are comparing it to the now deceased but fondly remembered VT & ZT65 and Pioneer Kuros and, unsurprisingly the AX902 is not faring well. However, that's not to say that the AX902 isn't a really good LCD TV, because it is.

Indeed.

To express my comments above more succinctly, Panasonic prompted reviewers to compare the 902 with PDP rather than LCD displays. Comparisons with PDP were inevitably less favourable.

 

[bigboss]

I'm among a minority of videophiles that still enjoy the occasional 3D flick; and I think 4K televisions' capacity to display true HD passive 3D is often overlooked.

Is it not the case that the 1080p picture is first upscaled to 4K, and then halved again due to passive 3D? In effect, yes you get a full HD picture technically, but in reality it's a picture that has been procesed twice. I may be wrong, but that's my understanding.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Hi guys, just thought I'd pass back some opinions on the AX902 after spending considerable time with one during a recent calibration. I was principally calibrating it in conjunction with a Lumagen Radiance 2143, the idea being to make use of the 2143's 17x17x17 LUT and superb upscaling capabilities. However, it was by no means an easy ride. It took me quite some time to work out why, instead of the expected perfect images with the Lumagen, the calibration was continually messed up. The unacceptably high input lag of the AX902 resulted in a mistiming of the presentation of the patterns and the meter readings. Even with Game Mode switched on readings were on a knife edge as the AX902 could take several several seconds to become stable in between patterns. This naturally leads me to conclude, as have several reviewers, that if you are interested in gaming the AX902 is probably not the TV of choice. In the end I managed to get decent 3d LUTs with an excellent picture via the Lumagen but Panasonic desperately need to bring out a firmware update, as Samsung have recently done with the HU8500, to reduce input lag. I also calibrated several modes, both 2d and 3d, using the AX902s own calibration controls. I am happy to report that these work superbly and also deliver great image accuracy.

Backlight uniformity was ok, with moderate bright patches in certain areas - particularly in the top left hand corner. Black levels without the dimming engaged were mediocre. However, engaging the dimming made a big difference to black level and is simply essential on this set. Still, even with dimming engaged the black levels and contrast on the AX902 aren't in plasma league - so I get Steve Wither's point. Otherwise, 2d picture performance was very pleasing. I was most impressed by the 3d performance which uses passive glasses. This TV puts out a really bright, colour accurate 3d picture with oodles of depth and minimal crosstalk. It's simply terrific in 3d.

Jules, did you see it in 4K? And what do you make of 4K? Reports and reviews state 4K at 55inches is pointless, what do you think? Cheers

Sorry, I didn't see any native 4k content as there was something up with my client's Netflix account. However, it's certainly debateable whether 4k at 55" is worth it. AFAIK you're going to have to sit no further away than around 6' from the screen before you begin to notice the resolution improvement over 1080 - and you'll get the maximum benefit at around 3'. The way that most people have their living rooms set out that just won't be possible. On 4k in general I'm a big fan. I have the Sony VW500ES 4k projector and a 113" screen. I also have some Sony supplied native 4k material. At that size 4k is most apparent from my seating position. In any case, the way that this projector upscales to 4k is marvellous so I've been enjoying 'super Blu-ray' for about a year.

Cheers Jules, very interesting.

 

[strapped for cash]

Is it not the case that the 1080p picture is first upscaled to 4K, and then halved again due to passive 3D? In effect, yes you get a full HD picture technically, but in reality it's a picture that has been procesed twice. I may be wrong, but that's my understanding.

This is worth a read:

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/4k-tvs-with-passive-3d-finally-a-good-use-for-all-those-pixels/

 

[bigboss]

Is it not the case that the 1080p picture is first upscaled to 4K, and then halved again due to passive 3D? In effect, yes you get a full HD picture technically, but in reality it's a picture that has been procesed twice. I may be wrong, but that's my understanding.

This is worth a read:

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/4k-tvs-with-passive-3d-finally-a-good-use-fo...

I'm still not clear. The picture on TV has been upscaled to 4K from 1080p even before you see them with 3D glasses, and then it's split due to passive 3D. I suppose you won't lose half the pixels as it did with 1080p TV.....*unknw*

 

[strapped for cash]

[quote-bigboss]

I'm still not clear. The picture on TV has been upscaled to 4K from 1080p even before you see them with 3D glasses, and then it's split due to passive 3D. I suppose you won't lose half the pixels as it did with 1080p TV.....*unknw*

[/quote]

Excuse the delay replying (busy night). This is what I think is happening.

A full HD (1080p) resolution uses a total of 2073600 pixels (or two megapixels).

Full HD (1080p) 3D doubles this number, totalling 4147200 pixels (or four megapixels).

A UHD (4K) television displays 8294400 pixels (or eight megapixels).

In other words, UHD offers double what's needed to display 1080p 3D.

So when David Katzmaier says "You still lose half the vertical resolution," I think he means that while the TV displays every full HD 3D pixel, this only amounts to half a 4K TV's native resolution, meaning upscaling is still needed.

You're still seeing an upscaled image, rather than native 1080p 3D, but I don't think the data is upscaled to UHD resolution before being split for passive 3D.

Hope that makes sense. As I say, this is what I think is happening and I'm happy to be corrected.